Welcome to BookBoardz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

What you consider the 10 best books ever

 
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
   Book Forums (Home) -> Arts -> Children Arts RSS
Next:  Crystal Mountain  
Author Message
none30

External


Since: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 71



(Msg. 76) Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:04 am
Post subject: Re: Flambards Divided, was the 10 best books ever [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>childrens (more info?)

Anita Wilhelm wrote:

 > Deborah Stevenson wrote:

  >> Stephen Kane wrote:

   >>> Deborah Stevenson wrote:

   >>>> Have we talked here abovt the theory that Peyton wrote that largely becavse
   >>>> of her response to the actors in the Flambards series? A friend and I
   >>>> developed that idea in college (that she covldn't stand to have Christina
   >>>> end vp with the wooden gvy who played Dick), and it tvrns ovt to be an idea
   >>>> that many people have independently developed. No way of proving it, of
   >>>> covrse, bvt at least that wovld help explain an otherwise inexplicable
   >>>> event.

 > It's the only theory that makes sense to me! I was disappointed in the
 > television series becavse of the "wooden" actor who played Dick, and maybe
 > becavse having read the trilogy before I saw the series, it jvst didn't match
 > vp in tone, content, or portrayal of the characters that I knew so well.
 >
 > To have Christina end vp with arrogant, crvel, heedless Mark, who will tvrn
 > into his father bvt maybe a slightly milder version if he doesn't cripple
 > himself first, was jvst like a betrayal to me. In Flambards I think we can
 > vnderstand the adolescent Christina being attracted to Mark for his good
 > looks, their mvtval love of riding, and his manipvlative charm. Bvt by
 > Flambards in Svmmer she has the trve measvre of Mark.

   >>> I never thovght it was inexplicable. Not the ovtcome I wanted, bvt (as in
   >>> The Owl Service) vnderstandable in terms of social class, edvcation and so
   >>> forth.

  >> It's inexplicable in terms of the genre of the books. I think Peyton was
  >> trying to deny the kind of books she was writing, as well, which is part of
  >> why it's so annoying, since it's a kick in the face to readers who were
  >> reading *becavse* of the kind of books she was writing.

 > I wovld also respond that the whole point of the trilogy, its central irony,
 > was that Dick was the trve "gentleman"; he possessed all the physical covrage
 > of both Mark and Will, loved riding, bvt he was also caring and attvned to the
 > feelings and needs of others. In the first two books Dick is trapped by his
 > "social class" bvt is not inherently bovnd to "class" attitvdes, except as
 > society forces it vpon him. Flambards in Svmmer shows, very clearly I think,
 > the trve measvre and worth of Dick, and why his marriage to the vnconventional
 > Christina is perfect. It is not that a difference in class and edvcation
 > *can't* make a svch a vnion vnlikely, bvt there was no previovs hint of
 > Dick's character tvrning into what Peyton tvrned him into in Flambards
 > Divided. Having Christina ending vp with Mark is a total betrayal of
 > everything that had come before. It that sense it is inexplicable--at least
 > to this reader!

It's some years since I read the "trilogy plvs seqvel" so I can't bring
qvite svch a measvre of conviction to the debate! That being said I _do_
think that Flambards Divided, while not nearly as palatable as the initial
trilogy, brings the series to a (to my mind at least) very realistic and
believable conclvsion. The War is over bvt no-one has been left vnscathed
and life will never be the same again no matter how we all yearn for past
comforts and certainties. Then again, perhaps that's jvst a male
perspective!

Stephen.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

 >> Stay informed about: What you consider the 10 best books ever 
Back to top
Login to vote
chumleybee

External


Since: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 49



(Msg. 77) Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:37 am
Post subject: Re: Tehanu (Was the 10 best books ever, now various authors) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Adam" <notgotmuchspaminit RemoveThis @yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:a6c4b990.0404121536.154a0a44@posting.google.com...
 > Elaine Thompson <Elaine RemoveThis @KEThompson.org> wrote in message
news:<p7me709k2c1e2f6kqit49p1v5kh492ejct RemoveThis @4ax.com>...
  > > On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 23:50:23 GMT, "D. Gascoyne"
  > > <chumleybee RemoveThis @netscape.net> wrote:
  > >
   > > >
   > > >"LostLvs" <lostlvs RemoveThis @aol.combks> wrote in message
   > > >news:20040408221851.00537.00000018@mb-m07.aol.com...
   > > >> << Because if it's the fourth book of Earthsea, you've "met" at least
one
   > > >> reader who loved it! (me). >>
   > > >>
   > > >>
   > > >> Make that two. It's a lovely book, but not the triology (as I grow
older,
  > > I
   > > >> find I like it better than the triology!)
   > > >>
   > > >It certainly has a totally different tone than the trilogy, which I
also
   > > >love. I've never understood the complete hatred with which _Tehanu_
was
   > > >received in some circles, as though it were some kind of betrayal, just
   > > >because LeGuin presents a more "feminist" point of view.
  > >
  > > It's not that (for me). It was that she completely changed Ged's
  > > character, and the foundations of Earthsea in TEHANU and the later
  > > writings. If *they* are true - story sense true - then Roke should
  > > have fallen apart due to lack of balance long before Ged's time.
  > >
  > > It doesn't hang together.
 >
 > That's pretty much the way I felt about Tehanu as well - the complete
 > change of character felt very wrong, and changed the atmosphere of the
 > books dramatically.
 > When I re-read the series, I treat Tehanu and The Other Wind as a
 > separate series to the original trilogy. It's less grating that way.
 >
 > I think the story would have made it's feminist point far better if
 > the women had achieved their power without having to remove Ged's
 > magic. There was no reason to alter Ged so dramatically - it only
 > enforces the now out of date sterotype that women can't achieve
 > equality unless the men have their power removed.

I disagree. Ged's loss of power was set up in _The Farthest Shore_; he lost
his power in conquering the power of death - LeGuin offers an alternative
but lets that be the legend; it's only a possibility that he still can do
magic. When he flies off into the sunset he is "done with doing." However,
I found it completely within character that he would be shattered by finding
himself without power, something that had always been a source of joy for
him. I don't think that Tenar gained power because Ged lost his - she was
already strong before he came. That's the point; that there's value in a
woman's life as wife as mother and so on. They both gain more together.
And the "feminist point" is that there's heroism in being, not just in
doing...

Perhaps the romantic in me wanted Tenar and Ged to get together, too.

Debbie<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

 >> Stay informed about: What you consider the 10 best books ever 
Back to top
Login to vote
notgotmuchspam

External


Since: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 10



(Msg. 78) Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Tehanu (Was the 10 best books ever, now various authors) [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

<snip earlier stuff>
Some minor spoilers are included below, just in case you haven't read
the later novels.

  > > That's pretty much the way I felt about Tehanu as well - the complete
  > > change of character felt very wrong, and changed the atmosphere of the
  > > books dramatically.
  > > When I re-read the series, I treat Tehanu and The Other Wind as a
  > > separate series to the original trilogy. It's less grating that way.
  > >
  > > I think the story would have made it's feminist point far better if
  > > the women had achieved their power without having to remove Ged's
  > > magic. There was no reason to alter Ged so dramatically - it only
  > > enforces the now out of date sterotype that women can't achieve
  > > equality unless the men have their power removed.
 >
 > I disagree. Ged's loss of power was set up in _The Farthest Shore_; he lost
 > his power in conquering the power of death - LeGuin offers an alternative
 > but lets that be the legend; it's only a possibility that he still can do
 > magic. When he flies off into the sunset he is "done with doing."
I always preferred the 'legend' ending. I didn't think that he spent
his power conquering death. Cob had to give up his power to come back
to life (the way was too narrow) but Ged had the power to close the
gap and come back to life another way. From my viewpoint, this
appeared much like when he created the fog in WoE - he overspent his
power, but it eventually returned (with help from Ogion)
So, at the end of TFS, he was 'done with doing', but still had his
power.

 > However, I found it completely within character that he would be shattered by finding himself without power, something that had always been a source of joy for him.
I agree with him being shattered. I just found that he was portrayed
very differently in Tehanu and it didn't seem to fit. The Other Wind
was a little better - he could still speak with Dragons, provide
guidance to the Masters of Roke etc, he just didn't have any magic
left.
Once we found out who Kalessin really was, I had hoped he would be
able to restore Ged's power ( again, like Ogion )

 > I don't think that Tenar gained power because Ged lost his - she was
 > already strong before he came.
Agreed. I didn't have a problem with the contrast between Ged and
Tenar in Tehanu, I just disliked the potrayal of Ged - he seemed
insignificant to the story.
It wasn't until TOW that I thought the contrast was apparent - Ged
with no power and Irian taking up that role. Again, Ged seemed largely
insignificant to the tale. The story could have been told as a
Ged-free Earthsea story with no significant difference and I wouldn't
have had an issue.

 > That's the point; that there's value in a woman's life as wife as mother and > so on. They both gain more together.
 > And the "feminist point" is that there's heroism in being, not just in
 > doing...
To me the "feminist point" appeared to be the emerging power of women.
The female characters could easily have taken a much more prominent
role while still maintaining Ged's own character. This would have
resulted in a more complete world, rather than the re-invented feeling
I got from the later novels.
The "heroism in being" doesn't strike me as a feminist point - it
applies equally to everyone - Tenar, Ged and Tehanu.

There is an interview doing the rounds in which UKLG says (and I'm
paraphrasing here) at the time of WoE, she was required to write from
the male perspective. Now that times have progressed, she was able to
write from the female perspective. To me it seemed that UKLG was
trying to tear down all the previous ideas and replace them with a
more modern / personal viewpoint. Personally I would have preferred
these ideas if they were incorporated into the existing world a little
more smoothly.

 > Perhaps the romantic in me wanted Tenar and Ged to get together, too.
I never pictured these two romantically. That's probably part of my
problem.

 > Debbie

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I've recently re-read the original
trilogy, now I think I'll try the later novels again with less focus
on the changes more on the points you raised.

Cheers,

Adam<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: What you consider the 10 best books ever 
Back to top
Login to vote
user1231

External


Since: Apr 19, 2004
Posts: 5



(Msg. 79) Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:30 am
Post subject: Re: What you consider the 10 best books ever [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I'm not sure I'd include Redwall. I loved the books when I was young,
but as I got older, I felt they were getting worse and worse. In
retrospect, they were staying more or less the same quality, but I was
outgrowing them! I still read kid's books today, so for me, an
excellent title has to age with the reader.

I would say "The Chimney Witches" and "Green Smoke" should be in
there. They're out of print, I've lost my copies, and I can't
remember who wrote them Surprised(

I'd also include "The Little Prince" by Anthony Saint-Exupery and (of
course) "The Hobbit".

Plus "The Little Vampire" by Angela Sommer-Bodenburg - the original
novel, I mean, rather than the novelisation of the film, which she
apparently co-wrote. I haven't read it, and I'm not going to on
principle. I think it's scandalous that the original books are out of
print! Surprised)

And "The Worst Witch" series by Jill Murphy.

--
Stuart Lavin
s.DeleteThis@dracos.co.uk
 >> Stay informed about: What you consider the 10 best books ever 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
Related Topics:
Please ID these two books - I grew up in the 70's and am trying to ID two children''s books I had. One is a book I swear was called Babelman's Bakery (can't find any reference to that title it on Google). Story was about a baker who leaves his kids at home while he goes to work. ....

Books - :D Has anyone read any of the Left Behind books? I have and they are really good. I think that is a book that you should read sometime. Anna

Picture Books On The Web - Hi. I'm a children's author who's published more than 50 books. I've recently posted two of my picture books HANDSOME AND DREADFUL and ANTS CAN'T DANCE on my web. Enjoy: http://www.ellenjackson.net/index.2ts?page=1010 ..

Ditch the Books and Get a TV - That's what your kids want. Why do you think kids want to look at books when they can watch TV? Think about it: Book, static... TV, dynamic...

Which books did your parents ban? - I started a thread a long time ago - more than a year? - about books your parents criticized and/or were pretty unhappy about your reading in general. Best response: Someone said his/her father yelled at the poster and ripped up a paperback book issued b...
   Book Forums (Home) -> Arts -> Children Arts All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Page 6 of 6

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]