100 Year Winter: Narnia Movie

westprog wrote:
> "Peter B. Juul" <p4.DeleteThis@enzym.rnd.uni-c.dk> wrote in message
> news:m2mzi14up2.fsf@enzym.rnd.uni-c.dk...
> > Tim Bruening <tsbrueni.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> writes:
> >
> > > I was thinking that the White Witch could convene a kangaroo court
> > > (consisting of Talking Kangaroos!) to try and convict Tumnus.
>
> > Well, that would suggest that the witch at least pretended to run the
> > country in a somewhat democratic manner. Nothing really suggests that.

Certainly consent and the rule of law don't apply unless she wants them
to.

> I watched the C.S.Lewis tv film last night, and it featured Joy Gresham
> asking Lewis where the beavers got the oranges from. He was unable to
> answer, but she then got him off the hook by postulating a Narnian black
> market.

With Moles tunneling under the snow?
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Tim Bruening wrote:
> "Peter B. Juul" wrote:
>
> > Tim Bruening <tsbrueni.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> writes:
> >
> > > I was thinking that the White Witch could convene a kangaroo court
> > > (consisting of Talking Kangaroos!) to try and convict Tumnus.
> >
> > Well, that would suggest that the witch at least pretended to run the
> > country in a somewhat democratic manner. Nothing really suggests that.
>
> Wouldn't the note saying that Tumnus was awaiting trial suggest that trials
> occured in Narnia under Queen Jadis and that Jadis was at least pretending an
> interest in justice?

It could do, but a few other non-democratic regimes have used trials
abusively. But essentially either you have your troops kill every
person that they meet, or everyone that they arrest, or else you have
some kind of trial system to decide who gets released and who doesn't.
The question may be: are the regime's interests best served by killing
or imprisoning or fining or releasing this person? (Other sentencing
options may apply.)

(English-speakers: do you notice political leaders using "regime" for a
foreign government they don't like? It's more-or-less a French word
for "government", but it sounds nasty.)
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Tim Bruening wrote:
> westprog wrote:
>
> > I watched the C.S.Lewis tv film last night, and it featured Joy Gresham
> > asking Lewis where the beavers got the oranges from. He was unable to
> > answer, but she then got him off the hook by postulating a Narnian black
> > market. Basically she was using it as an excuse for flirting. What's
> > Bruening's excuse?
>
> Were either Lewis or Joy married at the time?

Apparently so. However, _Shadowlands_, if that's it, is somewhat a
work of fiction.

> That I would like to know how the sentient beings of Narnia obtained food in
> all that snow and ice and completely frozen bodies of water.

Possibly at very high prices from Jadis's government importer or palace
greenhouses. There may also have been a population crash.

Is the length of the Narnian year known?
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rja.carnegie.RemoveThis@excite.com wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:
> > westprog wrote:
> >
> > > I watched the C.S.Lewis tv film last night, and it featured Joy Gresham
> > > asking Lewis where the beavers got the oranges from. He was unable to
> > > answer, but she then got him off the hook by postulating a Narnian black
> > > market. Basically she was using it as an excuse for flirting. What's
> > > Bruening's excuse?
> >
> > Were either Lewis or Joy married at the time?
>
> Apparently so. However, _Shadowlands_, if that's it, is somewhat a
> work of fiction.
>
> > That I would like to know how the sentient beings of Narnia obtained food in
> > all that snow and ice and completely frozen bodies of water.
>
> Possibly at very high prices from Jadis's government importer or palace
> greenhouses. There may also have been a population crash.
>
> Is the length of the Narnian year known?

Since Aslan created Terrestrial life forms to inhabit Narnia, I assume that he
would have made the Narnian year the same length as Earth's year to avoid
biorhythm upsets.
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rja.carnegie DeleteThis @excite.com wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:
> > westprog wrote:
> >
> > > I watched the C.S.Lewis tv film last night, and it featured Joy Gresham
> > > asking Lewis where the beavers got the oranges from. He was unable to
> > > answer, but she then got him off the hook by postulating a Narnian black
> > > market. Basically she was using it as an excuse for flirting. What's
> > > Bruening's excuse?
> >
> > Were either Lewis or Joy married at the time?
>
> Apparently so. However, _Shadowlands_, if that's it, is somewhat a
> work of fiction.
>
> > That I would like to know how the sentient beings of Narnia obtained food in
> > all that snow and ice and completely frozen bodies of water.
>
> Possibly at very high prices from Jadis's government importer or palace
> greenhouses. There may also have been a population crash.

I bet that the Moles were the one to smuggle food into Narnia, since they could
tunnel underground and thus bypass the snow.
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<rja.carnegie DeleteThis @excite.com> wrote in message
news:1137246919.277411.38240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> > > I watched the C.S.Lewis tv film last night, and it featured Joy
Gresham
> > > asking Lewis where the beavers got the oranges from. He was unable to
> > > answer, but she then got him off the hook by postulating a Narnian
black
> > > market. Basically she was using it as an excuse for flirting. What's
> > > Bruening's excuse?
> >
> > Were either Lewis or Joy married at the time?
>
> Apparently so. However, _Shadowlands_, if that's it, is somewhat a
> work of fiction.

This wasn't Shadowlands - it was supposedly factual, but I think there must
have been some dramatic licence. It was mostly Lewis giving autobiography to
camera, with flashbacks to what he was describing.

Strangely, given the Narnian reference in the title, it concentrated on the
Gresham stuff which happened after the Narnia books were all written. It had
all been covered in Shadowlands, which was a TV film/play/Cinema film.

> > That I would like to know how the sentient beings of Narnia obtained
food in
> > all that snow and ice and completely frozen bodies of water.

> Possibly at very high prices from Jadis's government importer or palace
> greenhouses. There may also have been a population crash.

> Is the length of the Narnian year known?

As well as Joy Gresham's facetious questions, Tolkien was shown complaining
about the consistency of Lewis' world-building. He objected to the
kitchen-sink approach. He had a particular aversion to the presence of
Father Christmas.


J/
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westprog wrote:
> <rja.carnegie.RemoveThis@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:1137246919.277411.38240@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > I watched the C.S.Lewis tv film last night, and it featured Joy
> Gresham
> > > > asking Lewis where the beavers got the oranges from. He was unable to
> > > > answer, but she then got him off the hook by postulating a Narnian
> black
> > > > market. Basically she was using it as an excuse for flirting. What's
> > > > Bruening's excuse?
> > >
> > > Were either Lewis or Joy married at the time?
> >
> > Apparently so. However, _Shadowlands_, if that's it, is somewhat a
> > work of fiction.
>
> This wasn't Shadowlands - it was supposedly factual, but I think there must
> have been some dramatic licence. It was mostly Lewis giving autobiography to
> camera, with flashbacks to what he was describing.
>
> Strangely, given the Narnian reference in the title, it concentrated on the
> Gresham stuff which happened after the Narnia books were all written. It had
> all been covered in Shadowlands, which was a TV film/play/Cinema film.

>From cross-checking various chronologies, their civil marriage took
place when all but the last of the books was in print (I can ony find
"1956" for that, and one per year previously, so it could be before or
after), as did Mrs Lewis's illness, but they first met in 1952 and
she'd written to him as a Christian author at the start of 1950 -
before Narnia, I think.
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westprog wrote:

>> Is the length of the Narnian year known?
>
>As well as Joy Gresham's facetious questions, Tolkien was shown complaining
>about the consistency of Lewis' world-building. He objected to the
>kitchen-sink approach. He had a particular aversion to the presence of
>Father Christmas.

Well there's a nit that no one's picked. If the exact curse was
that it was always winter but never Christmas, does that mean
that the years weren't passing?

--
-Jack
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On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:16:51 +1100, Doug Palmer
<doug.RemoveThis@charvolant.REMOVE.org> wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:17:33 -0500, Jack Bohn wrote:
>
>> Well there's a nit that no one's picked. If the exact curse was that it
>> was always winter but never Christmas, does that mean that the years
>> weren't passing?
>
>Christmas as a state of mind, not a date, I would have thought.
>
>But since there is no Christ in Narnia, I wonder where the name
>"Christmas" comes from?

That should be self evident. It comes from the fat man.
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On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:34:40 GMT, rgorman.DeleteThis@block.net (David Johnston) wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:16:51 +1100, Doug Palmer
><doug.DeleteThis@charvolant.REMOVE.org> wrote:
>
/snip/

>>But since there is no Christ in Narnia, I wonder where the name
>>"Christmas" comes from?
>
>That should be self evident. It comes from the fat man.


Could be. Otho, fauns and centaurs, and dwarfs and such, come from
pagans who had Saturnalia and a Yule celebration, so maybe it's just a
matter of terminology. I remember somewhere Lewis talking about someone who
had translated a phrase in Horace as "ladies carolling", tho I don't know
what occasion they were carolling on.


Bree
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On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:21:25 -0800, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni DeleteThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>rja.carnegie@excite.com wrote:
>
>> Tim Bruening wrote:
/snip/
>> > That I would like to know how the sentient beings of Narnia obtained food in
>> > all that snow and ice and completely frozen bodies of water.
>>
>> Possibly at very high prices from Jadis's government importer or palace
>> greenhouses. There may also have been a population crash.
>
>I bet that the Moles were the one to smuggle food into Narnia, since they could
>tunnel underground and thus bypass the snow.


Hm, if we can have Secret Police (with a Continental bureaucratic
name like 'Maugrim'), then why not an Underground? With gorillas....

And Puddleglum in a beret drinking expresso....


Bree
--
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<rja.carnegie RemoveThis @excite.com> wrote in message
news:1137290254.229735.288520@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
....
> >From cross-checking various chronologies, their civil marriage took
> place when all but the last of the books was in print (I can ony find
> "1956" for that, and one per year previously, so it could be before or
> after), as did Mrs Lewis's illness, but they first met in 1952 and
> she'd written to him as a Christian author at the start of 1950 -
> before Narnia, I think.

I wandered into a little charity shop in Oxford which had previously been a
registry office, and they had the original certificate on the wall. (How
they were entitled to it, and whether it actually was the original I leave
as open questions).

J/
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Doug Palmer <doug DeleteThis @charvolant.REMOVE.org> wrote in
news:pan.2006.01.15.06.16.42.565765@charvolant.REMOVE.org:

> On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:17:33 -0500, Jack Bohn wrote:
>
>> Well there's a nit that no one's picked. If the exact curse
>> was that it was always winter but never Christmas, does that
>> mean that the years weren't passing?
>
> Christmas as a state of mind, not a date, I would have thought.
>
> But since there is no Christ in Narnia, I wonder where the name
> "Christmas" comes from?

Looking at the series as a whole, I'd guess that King Frank and
Queen Helen celebrated it and introduced it to the rest of Narnia.
(Though since I doubt that Lewis knew about King Frank and Queen
Helen when writing the first book, I doubt this or any firm answer
was in his mind at the time.)

Mike

--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS
mschiffe DeleteThis @condor.depaul.edu
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