100 Year Winter: Narnia Movie

David L. Burkhead wrote:
> Tim Bruening wrote:
>
>>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <40u1k2F1bosd2U2.RemoveThis@individual.net>,
>>>Sean O'Hara <seanohara.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In the Year of the Cock, the Great and Powerful Christopher J.
>>>>Henrich declared:
>>>>
>>>>>And (in the book - I don't remember it from the movie) Mrs. Beaver
>>>>>frets about leaving behind her sewing machine. Sewing machines are
>>>>>complicated manufactured goods. The first ones were made in the
>>>>>19th century, and I bet they would have been impossible earlier.
>>>>>Where in Narnia is the industrial base needed for such high
>>>>>technology?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Don't the Beavers live fairly close to the wardrobe? Obviously
>>>>Wossisname, the guy the children were staying with, had a thriving
>>>>import/export business going.
>>>
>>>Professor Digory Kirke. Who had, of course, been there before
>>>himself.
>>
>>But he had buried the Rings he and his girlfriend had used to visit
>>Narnia, and I didn't get the impression that he had known about the
>>magic portal in his wardrobe before the kids went through.
>
> He may not knkow about the magic portal, but once you've been there with
> magic rings, it's no longer any great stretch to imagine someone else going
> there by other means.

It's been a *long* time since I read "The Magician's Nephew", but IIRC,
the rings are buried surrounding an apple tree, grown from the core
of an apple Jadis picked and ate in Narnia. The wardrobe is made
from wood cut from that tree.

The Professor knew all this, and so while he had never passed through
the wardrobe, he's very aware that is has connections to Narnia.

Peter Trei
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Tim Bruening wrote:

> peterwezeman.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Fireworks are mentioned several times in the stories, so the Narnians
> > do have gunpowder.
> >
> > Peter Wezeman
> > anti-social Darwinist
>
> Where are fireworks mentioned, and why didn't the White Witch use them
> against the Narnian freedom fighters?

I have found a reference to fireworks in "Prince Caspian" (Chapter 5,
"Caspian's Adventure in the Mountains, page 28 of paperback). Fireworks
are being launched to celebrate the birth of a prince. I'm surprised that
the evil and violent King Miraz didn't think to use fireworks as weapons
against Caspian's army.
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Peter Trei wrote:

> David L. Burkhead wrote:
> > Tim Bruening wrote:
> >
> >>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>In article <40u1k2F1bosd2U2.DeleteThis@individual.net>,
> >>>Sean O'Hara <seanohara.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>In the Year of the Cock, the Great and Powerful Christopher J.
> >>>>Henrich declared:
> >>>>
> >>>>>And (in the book - I don't remember it from the movie) Mrs. Beaver
> >>>>>frets about leaving behind her sewing machine. Sewing machines are
> >>>>>complicated manufactured goods. The first ones were made in the
> >>>>>19th century, and I bet they would have been impossible earlier.
> >>>>>Where in Narnia is the industrial base needed for such high
> >>>>>technology?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Don't the Beavers live fairly close to the wardrobe? Obviously
> >>>>Wossisname, the guy the children were staying with, had a thriving
> >>>>import/export business going.
> >>>
> >>>Professor Digory Kirke. Who had, of course, been there before
> >>>himself.
> >>
> >>But he had buried the Rings he and his girlfriend had used to visit
> >>Narnia, and I didn't get the impression that he had known about the
> >>magic portal in his wardrobe before the kids went through.
> >
> > He may not knkow about the magic portal, but once you've been there with
> > magic rings, it's no longer any great stretch to imagine someone else going
> > there by other means.
>
> It's been a *long* time since I read "The Magician's Nephew", but IIRC,
> the rings are buried surrounding an apple tree, grown from the core
> of an apple Jadis picked and ate in Narnia. The wardrobe is made
> from wood cut from that tree.

The apple in question was picked by Digory and fed to his mother.

The apple tree in England swayed whenever its parent tree in Narnia was blown
about by the wind. Eventually, the English tree got blown down. Did the parent
tree (which had repelled Jadis the White Witch) in Narnia fall down too at the
same time, allowing the White Witch to take over Narnia?

> The Professor knew all this, and so while he had never passed through
> the wardrobe, he's very aware that is has connections to Narnia.
 >> Stay informed about: 100 Year Winter: Narnia Movie 

Mark Atwood wrote:

> rgorman.RemoveThis@block.net (David Johnston) writes:
> >
> > What makes you think that sewing machine technology inevitably leads
> > to gun technology?
>
> They use pretty much exactly the same materials, machineing, tool&die,
> and manufacturing techniques.
>
> During WW2 in the US, sewing machine production came to a dead stop,
> as all the factories that made them were (without too much effort)
> converted over to manufacturing small arms.
>
> If you can build a sewing machine, you can build a WW2 era battle
> rifle, and you can build an AK-47 knock-off. You can also make the
> brass and bullets, and you build the (re)loader to put them
> together. (In fact, the AK-47 would be *easier* to build than the
> sewing machine. A lot fewer parts, and a lot looser tolerances.)
>
> The only possible "out" would be an Alien Space Bat scenario, similar
> to _Dies the Fire_, where in this case the ASB in question would be
> Aslan, who would have had to slipped into the Creation Song a verse
> along the lines of "the chemistry of life works, possibly aided by
> some sort of non-rational magic, but the chemistry of explosives
> doesnt work".

Yet in Prince/King Caspian's time, the Telmarines have fireworks.
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Mark Atwood wrote:

> rgorman RemoveThis @block.net (David Johnston) writes:
> >
> > What makes you think that sewing machine technology inevitably leads
> > to gun technology?
>
> They use pretty much exactly the same materials, machineing, tool&die,
> and manufacturing techniques.
>
> During WW2 in the US, sewing machine production came to a dead stop,
> as all the factories that made them were (without too much effort)
> converted over to manufacturing small arms.
>
> If you can build a sewing machine, you can build a WW2 era battle
> rifle, and you can build an AK-47 knock-off. You can also make the
> brass and bullets, and you build the (re)loader to put them
> together. (In fact, the AK-47 would be *easier* to build than the
> sewing machine. A lot fewer parts, and a lot looser tolerances.)
>
> The only possible "out" would be an Alien Space Bat scenario, similar
> to _Dies the Fire_, where in this case the ASB in question would be
> Aslan, who would have had to slipped into the Creation Song a verse
> along the lines of "the chemistry of life works, possibly aided by
> some sort of non-rational magic, but the chemistry of explosives
> doesnt work".

So an alien space bat sent Nantucket back in time and eliminated
electricity. What chance do we have against the alien space bat?
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mechdan RemoveThis @yahoo.com wrote:

> Mark Atwood wrote:
>
> > If you can build a sewing machine, you can build a WW2 era battle
> > rifle, and you can build an AK-47 knock-off. You can also make the
> > brass and bullets, and you build the (re)loader to put them
> > together. (In fact, the AK-47 would be *easier* to build than the
> > sewing machine. A lot fewer parts, and a lot looser tolerances.)
>
> > The only possible "out" would be an Alien Space Bat scenario, similar
> > to _Dies the Fire_, where in this case the ASB in question would be
> > Aslan, who would have had to slipped into the Creation Song a verse
> > along the lines of "the chemistry of life works, possibly aided by
> > some sort of non-rational magic, but the chemistry of explosives
> > doesnt work".
>
> There's also the Doctor Who "out", where practically every
> creature out there is impervious to bullets (thus rendering
> Pertwee era UNIT dependent upon the Doctor to come up
> with some clever non-bullet based way to deal with the
> alien/robot/dinosaur menace).

All the Narnia creatures looked vulnerable to bullets to me!
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Steve Hix wrote:

> In article <43AF2F72.17C50AAD DeleteThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>,
> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni DeleteThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> > David Johnston wrote:
> >
> > > On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 13:49:50 -0800, Tim Bruening
> > > <tsbrueni DeleteThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > >
> > > >> never gone into. Mortuaries in Narnia also double as tanneries
> > > >> and fur exporters. You could probably do something with the
> > > >> meat as well...
> > > >
> > > >If Calormen or Archenland have sewing machine technology, why don't they
> > > >have gun technology too?
> > > >
> > >
> > > What makes you think that sewing machine technology inevitably leads
> > > to gun technology?
> >
> > I was thinking that a culture capable of making sewing machines would also be
> > capable of making guns, and would do so to fend off enemies.
>
> One that could make sewing machines might never have stumbled over gun
> powder.

However, the Narnia of Prince Caspian's time has fireworks, which explode using
gunpowder.
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Steve Hix wrote:

> In article <m21x001ifc.fsf.TakeThisOut@amsu.fallenpegasus.com>,
> Mark Atwood <me.TakeThisOut@mark.atwood.name> wrote:
>
> > rgorman.TakeThisOut@block.net (David Johnston) writes:
> > >
> > > What makes you think that sewing machine technology inevitably leads
> > > to gun technology?
> >
> > They use pretty much exactly the same materials, machineing, tool&die,
> > and manufacturing techniques.
> >
> > During WW2 in the US, sewing machine production came to a dead stop,
> > as all the factories that made them were (without too much effort)
> > converted over to manufacturing small arms.
> >
> > If you can build a sewing machine, you can build a WW2 era battle
> > rifle, and you can build an AK-47 knock-off. You can also make the
> > brass and bullets, and you build the (re)loader to put them
> > together. (In fact, the AK-47 would be *easier* to build than the
> > sewing machine. A lot fewer parts, and a lot looser tolerances.)
>
> What if you've never developed any propellants?

Prince Caspian's Narnia can launch fireworks, meaning that they have
propellents.
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Bree wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 19:25:34 -0800, Steve Hix
> <sehix.DeleteThis@NOSPAMspeakeasy.netINVALID> wrote:
>
> >In article <43aecb25.927889.DeleteThis@news.telusplanet.net>,
> > rgorman.DeleteThis@block.net (David Johnston) wrote:
> >
> >> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 13:49:50 -0800, Tim Bruening
> >> <tsbrueni.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >> never gone into. Mortuaries in Narnia also double as tanneries
> >> >> and fur exporters. You could probably do something with the
> >> >> meat as well...
> >> >
> >> >If Calormen or Archenland have sewing machine technology, why don't they
> >> >have gun technology too?
> >
> >Gun manufacture sort of led to sewing machine manufacture (mass
> >production of standardized parts). Gunpowder, per se, was unrelated,
> >except that nations *really* wanted to make a *lot* of gunpowder weapons
> >cheaply, which drove the manufacturing process.
> >
> >But there's no reason that machines like sewing machines couldn't have
> >come about after, say, agricultural machinery technology made their
> >development and mass production possible.
>
> I can't believe that in Narnia anyone makes sewing machines. I think
> beavers just inherit them.

Where did the beavers get their sewing machine?
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Mark Atwood wrote:

> Steve Hix <sehix.RemoveThis@NOSPAMspeakeasy.netINVALID> writes:
> >> brass and bullets, and you build the (re)loader to put them
> >> together. (In fact, the AK-47 would be *easier* to build than the
> >> sewing machine. A lot fewer parts, and a lot looser tolerances.)
> >
> > What if you've never developed any propellants?
>
> You are not have the metallurgy required to make sewing machine parts
> without having enough practical chemistry to make black powder.

Metallurgy: Goblin that makes metal objects.

Allergy: Goblin that sneezes.
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On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 01:25:50 -0800, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni RemoveThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:

>Bree wrote:

/snip/

>> I can't believe that in Narnia anyone makes sewing machines. I think
>> beavers just inherit them.
>
>Where did the beavers get their sewing machine?


Maybe the first one grew, like the lamppost.


Bree
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On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 19:28:50 -0800, Steve Hix
<sehix DeleteThis @NOSPAMspeakeasy.netINVALID> wrote:

>One that could make sewing machines might never have stumbled over gun
>powder.

Trouble is, explosives are so useful, and accidental explosives are
easy to discover.
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In article <m2u0cwq9mm.fsf DeleteThis @amsu.fallenpegasus.com>,
Mark Atwood <me DeleteThis @mark.atwood.name> wrote:
>mechdan@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> There's also the Doctor Who "out", where practically every
>> creature out there is impervious to bullets (thus rendering
>> Pertwee era UNIT dependent upon the Doctor to come up
>> with some clever non-bullet based way to deal with the
>> alien/robot/dinosaur menace).
>
>The Bureau 13 books sometimes have had fun with the reverse of that.
>
>There is a mention of a demon/goddess who was "hot stuff" millenia
>ago. Her only material weakness was that steel. Oops.
>
>And there were waves of monsters who were suspectable to only one
>metal. Lead. Oops.

ObBuffy: The Judge and the rocket launcher. "What's that do?"

--
David Goldfarb | "We need you to distract them."
goldfarb DeleteThis @ocf.berkeley.edu |"Right."
goldfarb DeleteThis @csua.berkeley.edu | "What are you going to do?"
|"I'm going to kill them all. That ought to
|distract them." -- Buffy the Vampire Slayer
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