1984 - a few basic questions

Ann Ominous wrote:

 > 1. Does everyone arrested by the ministry of love ultimately get executed,
 > or do some get a second chance?
 > 2. Are the proles watched as closely as the outer party members?
 > 3. It looks like Big Brother is a facade. Who is really in charge?
 > 4. Is it possible for anyone in the 1984 universe to go through their entire
 > life without doing something that would cause them to be arrested?

Consider this: wouldn't definite, publicly available answers to such questions
be characteristic of a country governed according to the rule of law? As Hannah
Arendt explained in *The Origins of Totalitarianism*, totalitarian systems do
not function according to law. Orwell knew totalitarianism well enough to
understand this, and wrote a story in which the characters are always uncertain
about when they are being watched and to what extent they are risking arrest.

 >
 > 5. Finally, has anyone else ever written novels that involve the 1984
 > universe?

A non-exclusive list:

Anthony Burgess' *1985* -- Haven't read it but would like to.
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=Pine.A41.3.95q.980618121749.105418C-100000%40aix1.uottawa.ca>

<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3a114c89.24600429%40news.es.co.nz>
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3BDF9.17139%24fk5.1396696%40news0.telusplanet.net>

Gyorgy Dalos' *1985* -- Don't know much about this one.
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=swp7lpaoctr.fsf%40rhyonon.cco.caltech.edu>

Peter Huber's *Orwell's Revenge: The 1984 Palimpsest* -- Haven't read it, but
per reviews it's a retelling based on changed political assumptions.
<http://www.phuber.com/huber/orwell/orwells.html>
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=allport-2703981359580001%40m329mac1.ee.upenn.edu>

*1984* fan fiction, said to be awful:
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c612tn%246qsjr%242%40ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de>

At a greater remove:

-- Vladimir Voinovich's *Moscow 2042* is set in a slightly different sci-fi
totalitarian world -- an extrapolated still-Soviet Russia of the middle 21st
century. The book is a tragicomedy possibly influenced by Orwell but more
strongly by Kafka & the Soviet experience itself.

-- Arthur Koestler's *Darkness at Noon* was an influence on Orwell's work that
is most visible in the party-discipline and interrogation descriptions in
*1984*.

-- Evgeny Zamyatin's *We* was a clear influence on Orwell's ideas about
totalitarian influence on thought.

-- Jack London's *The Iron Heel* is also said to have been an influence on
*1984*. I've only read excerpts. The whole text is available at
<http://www.literature.org/authors/london-jack/the-iron-heel/index.html>.

-- A former contributor to this group dug up an odd and little-known possible
*1984* precursor, "The Dream of Wyndham Smith." See
<http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=382CD07C.1B04BB2A%40sirius.com>.


/Martha Bridegam
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://home.pacbell.net/mabjo/martha.html" target="_blank">http://home.pacbell.net/mabjo/martha.html</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1984 - a few basic questions 

 >Well Bayle and Selene have certainly been part of a putsch on poor old
   >> > George
  >>
  >> I think Bayle and Selene have been a useful contributors. Bayle has got
  >> annoyed and gone in with his boots before now, but then I am the worst
  >> offender on this newsgroup for that. I can only say that there was a--and
 >I
  >> can't put this any other way--holier than thou, academiccy attitude
 >towards
  >> the conflict as IF people like Martha, Alan H and A and Paul S were the
 >only
  >> people who found death, war and all its ghastly ancilleries horrible and
  >> that those who still gave mental house room to liberating Iraq by arms
 >were
  >> infra dig and infra contempt. This enraged Bayle, Selene and me.
  >> I never wanted to see Martha Bridegam leave this newsgroup or anyone
 >else.
  >> I would like to see the old abg-o back and talking, it was a good place to
  >> learn things. But I can only reiterate that the precious, pompous and
 >prissy
  >> characteristics of the doctrinaire leftwing Orwell fans here sunk the
  >> newsie. Selene and Bayle gave the other side of the coin and, as all
 >lefties
  >> do when challenged, they have shouted down and ignored as lunatics when
 >what
  >> they were saying was as valid as what the holy lefties were saying; I
 >don't
  >> see it as being spite and hatred. I'm sure we've all said completely out
 >of
  >> order things on here; again, I've been the worst in my time. I think
 >people
  >> should come back here and not hide out in the walled pleasantness of a
  >> moderated group blog.
  >>


 >Do we need Martha around to effect our
 >discourse? She is as necessary as >toothaches at a dentists convention..

 >"Benjamin was the oldest animal on the >farm, and the worst tempered. He
seldom
 >talked, and when he did, it was usually to >make some cynical remark—for
 >instance, he would say that God had >given him a tail to keep the flies off,
but
 >that he would sooner have had no tail and >no flies."

 > r

Martha,

Welcome back (!?) - Perhaps a litre of Hofbrauhaus? Or a glass of Kvas? Shall
we run a tab?

r<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1984 - a few basic questions 

 >
 > Martha,
 >
 > Welcome back (!?) - Perhaps a litre of Hofbrauhaus? Or a glass of Kvas? Shall
 > we run a tab?

Just a little stout in a strawberry china mug.

Don't get up, I'll pour it myself.

/M<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1984 - a few basic questions 

"Ann Ominous" <none.DeleteThis@here.org> writes:

 > 1. Does everyone arrested by the ministry of love ultimately get
 > executed, or do some get a second chance?

Yes and yes.

 > 2. Are the proles watched as closely as the outer party members?

No.

 > 3. It looks like Big Brother is a facade. Who is really in charge?

The Party.

The above answers are explicit in the book.

 > 4. Is it possible for anyone in the 1984 universe to go through
 > their entire life without doing something that would cause them to
 > be arrested?

Arithmetic suggests so.

 > 5. Finally, has anyone else ever written novels that involve the 1984
 > universe?

If you mean actual sequels continued from the same premises, I do not
know of any.
--
--- Joe Fineman joe_f.DeleteThis@verizon.net

||: The more you complain, the longer God lets you live. |<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1984 - a few basic questions 

allo joe!



"Joe Fineman" <joe_f.RemoveThis@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:u1xawr7wy.fsf@verizon.net...
 > "Ann Ominous" <none.RemoveThis@here.org> writes:
 >
  > > 1. Does everyone arrested by the ministry of love ultimately get
  > > executed, or do some get a second chance?
 >
 > Yes and yes.
 >
  > > 2. Are the proles watched as closely as the outer party members?
 >
 > No.
 >
  > > 3. It looks like Big Brother is a facade. Who is really in charge?
 >
 > The Party.
 >
 > The above answers are explicit in the book.
 >
  > > 4. Is it possible for anyone in the 1984 universe to go through
  > > their entire life without doing something that would cause them to
  > > be arrested?
 >
 > Arithmetic suggests so.
 >
  > > 5. Finally, has anyone else ever written novels that involve the 1984
  > > universe?
 >
 > If you mean actual sequels continued from the same premises, I do not
 > know of any.
 > --
 > --- Joe Fineman joe_f.RemoveThis@verizon.net
 >
 > ||: The more you complain, the longer God lets you live. |<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: 1984 - a few basic questions