The Who's Who of AFT/RABT 2008

"O. Sharp" <ohh.TakeThisOut@panix.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:flmaa9$c6o$1@reader2.panix.com...

Hello! Nice to see you again!

[snip]

>> Did you enjoy any of the movies about Middle-earth?:
>
> Er. Uhm.
>
> Visually, I thought Jackson's movies were extremely well-done. I thought
> their visual depictions of Middle-earth were spot-on.
>
> In terms of character, though, I thought their depicting Elrond as a
> despiser of Men, Faramir as a spineless dolt, Denethor as a scummy tyrant
> with absolutely no redeeming qualities, Merry and Pippin as juvenile
> delinquents, Treebeard as so disinterested in the world he had to be
> _tricked_ into going to Isengard, Aragorn as afraid of his title, Arwen as
> a sword-wielding lunatic who greets her beloved by holding a sword to his
> throat, Eowyn as a sword-wielding lunatic who _also_ greets Aragorn by
> holding a sword to his throat (and, in the extended version, can't cook
> either, an idea which didn't exactly serve the character _or_ the plot),
> Galadriel as an outright power-mad psychotic who upon sight of the Ring
> turns into Evil Queen Iron-Pants complete with solid-steel brassiere,
> Legolas as (in Orlando Bloom's own words) "a sort of Elvish assassin",
> and Gimli as... Gimli as something so completely and quintessentially
> non-Gimli in every way, non-heroic, non-noble, non-intelligent and, most
> ironically of all, non-funny (*) - took away a certain enjoyment of the
> movies for me. Like, nearly all of it.
>
> Grrrrr.

My feelings exactly. And you forgot Frodo as a wimp whose only quality is an
ability to make his eyes protrude from their sockets ("good part trick", as
someone commented), Théoden as first a sort of Undead and then as much too
young (what the Devil happened to his white hair?), and the absolutely
amazing way the interplay between Gollum, Sam and Frodo is twisted into a
simple (and stupid) "Gollum poisons the moronic Frodo's mind against Sam"
act - with Sam made fat into the bargain.
My favourite hate dialogue in the film is all the shortass jokes at
Gimli's expense, and Gimli's promise to the others that "My cousin Balin
will serve you meat rrred from the bone". The Scots should have caught John
Rhys-Davies and hung him from a gibbet at his window for the sport of the
crows.
Well, Théoden sobbing at his son's grave that "No parent should be forced
to bury his child" is quite a contender too. Rather different from the
stoicism of the Rohirrim in the book, and of the peoples they were patterned
on (Old English, Norsemen).

Öjevind
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In message <news:octsn3t8ukaknrs53tosj36rhcmtevo9l0@4ax.com>
Morgoth's Curse <morgothscurse2002.TakeThisOut@nospam.yahoo.com> spoke these
staves:
>
> On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:43:41 +0100, Troels Forchhammer
> <Troels.TakeThisOut@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Now, if you can find a Friday to be in Copenhagen, then perhaps we
>> can invite Öjevind over and I'll give a round of beers (or the
>> drink of your choice) while we explain what TEUNC /really/ is
>> (heh! Beat that offer, Curse!)
>
> I'm not worried. You are bound to misspell the address

I'm siure that Tyop ewill forgive me for not using the address part for
my obeisance to her. Or I might simply get my GPS and send Peter the
coordinates (can you misspell a number? I might of course get the N and
the E wrong, but he /knows/ what it's supposed to be).

> and Peter will get lost or arrive too late and find that you and
> Ojevind have quaffed all the beer.

There is no bar in Copenhagen small enough for me to drink enough of
their beer for someone half as sane as Öjevind to finish it off . . .
but if he is really late he may have to pay for himself

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human
stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
 >> Stay informed about: The Who's Who of AFT/RABT 2008 

Derek Broughton <news RemoveThis @pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> Paul S. Person wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:44:04 -0400, Derek Broughton

>>> Yeah, really. There's hardly an original thought to be found in the first
>>> half (at least). I've heard it got better in the second half of the first
>>> book, but I couldn't bring myself to read that far.

>> I read it and, by the end of the book, I was enjoying it. Despite its
>> derivative nature.

> As they say, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

Imitation, yes. Copying, nearly verbatim, with a bit of transparent
re-labeling, no. The plot is the same in nearly every detail.

- Dirk
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Öjevind Lång wrote:
> And dereforming Toad and turning him into an
> aeroplane nut seemed too easy to me. Poor invention.

Didn't Disney depict the same thing? And yet it's perfectly
believable, considering Toad's character. In the original story,
even though he hadn't yet reached aviation he already hinted
at his next possible obsession in Chapter 11:

`Quite right, Ratty! How sound you always are! Yes, I've been
a conceited old ass, I can quite see that; but now I'm going to
be a good Toad, and not do it any more. As for motor-cars, I've
not been at all so keen about them since my last ducking in that
river of yours. The fact is, while I was hanging on to the edge
of your hole and getting my breath, I had a sudden idea -- a really
brilliant idea -- connected with motor-boats -- there, there! don't
take on so, old chap, and stamp, and upset things; it was only
an idea, and we won't talk any more about it now.'

SQ
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On Sat, 5 Jan 2008 00:38:31 +0100, Dirk Thierbach
<dthierbach.RemoveThis@usenet.arcornews.de> wrote:

>Derek Broughton <news.RemoveThis@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>> Paul S. Person wrote:
>>> On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:44:04 -0400, Derek Broughton
>
>>>> Yeah, really. There's hardly an original thought to be found in the first
>>>> half (at least). I've heard it got better in the second half of the first
>>>> book, but I couldn't bring myself to read that far.
>
>>> I read it and, by the end of the book, I was enjoying it. Despite its
>>> derivative nature.
>
>> As they say, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".
>
>Imitation, yes. Copying, nearly verbatim, with a bit of transparent
>re-labeling, no. The plot is the same in nearly every detail.

Which is why I was hesitant to read it, and quite surprised to find
myself liking it by the time I got to the end.
--
"A portent, therefore, happens not contrary to nature,
but contrary to what we know as nature."
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Troels Forchhammer wrote:
> Morgoth's Curse <morgothscurse2002 DeleteThis @nospam.yahoo.com> spoke these
> staves:
>><peter DeleteThis @sagatafl.invalid> wrote:
>>>Rivendell. Is this a trick question? That's where all the books
>>>and scrolls are!
>>
>>Well, the Shire and Gondor have a sizable collection too!
>
> Yeah, well -- <div style="Heavy_Sarcasm">right!</div>
>
> "Now this is a very fine example of an early eigth century
> Southfarthing family tree. Look at the fine Oak leaves and in
> particular the excellent bark-texture the artist has achieved by . .
> ."
>
> I think not.

Exactly. There might be a fair amount of scrolls and books in the Shire,
after all, but they'd focus strongly - almost exclusively - on boring
hobbit hobbies, whereas the collection in Rivendell would be much more
serious and versatile.

>>If only it were! TEUNC is a sinister organization founded in the
>>Tolkien newsgroups which advocates bad spelling and grammar.
>
> Which is worse? Advocating grammar or advocating bad spelling? >:->

I rarely advocate grammar, since it is by far my weakest area.

>>In other words, TEUNC is Evil Incarnate!
>
> Of course not -- Peter, don't listen to his man -- honestly, he even
> acknowledges to being a curse!

I'd never listen to someone suggesting the use of poor language.

> Now, if you can find a Friday to be in Copenhagen, then perhaps we
> can invite Öjevind over and I'll give a round of beers (or the drink
> of your choice) while we explain what TEUNC /really/ is (heh! Beat
> that offer, Curse!)

I'm in Copenhagen almost all the time, since I live here...

--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
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In article <5u7t43F1ggaa0U1.RemoveThis@mid.individual.net>,
"Öjevind Lång" <bredband.net.RemoveThis@ojevind.lang> wrote:

> "O. Sharp" <ohh.RemoveThis@panix.com> skrev i meddelandet
> news:flmaa9$c6o$1@reader2.panix.com...


> >> Did you enjoy any of the movies about Middle-earth?:
> >
> > Er. Uhm.
> >
> > Visually, I thought Jackson's movies were extremely well-done. I thought
> > their visual depictions of Middle-earth were spot-on.
> >
> > In terms of character, though, I thought their depicting Elrond as a
> > despiser of Men, Faramir as a spineless dolt, Denethor as a scummy tyrant
> > with absolutely no redeeming qualities, Merry and Pippin as juvenile
> > delinquents, Treebeard as so disinterested in the world he had to be
> > _tricked_ into going to Isengard, Aragorn as afraid of his title, Arwen as
> > a sword-wielding lunatic who greets her beloved by holding a sword to his
> > throat, Eowyn as a sword-wielding lunatic who _also_ greets Aragorn by
> > holding a sword to his throat (and, in the extended version, can't cook
> > either, an idea which didn't exactly serve the character _or_ the plot),
> > Galadriel as an outright power-mad psychotic who upon sight of the Ring
> > turns into Evil Queen Iron-Pants complete with solid-steel brassiere,
> > Legolas as (in Orlando Bloom's own words) "a sort of Elvish assassin",
> > and Gimli as... Gimli as something so completely and quintessentially
> > non-Gimli in every way, non-heroic, non-noble, non-intelligent and, most
> > ironically of all, non-funny (*) - took away a certain enjoyment of the
> > movies for me. Like, nearly all of it.
> >
> > Grrrrr.
>
> My feelings exactly. And you forgot Frodo as a wimp whose only quality is an
> ability to make his eyes protrude from their sockets ("good part trick", as
> someone commented), Théoden as first a sort of Undead and then as much too
> young (what the Devil happened to his white hair?), and the absolutely
> amazing way the interplay between Gollum, Sam and Frodo is twisted into a
> simple (and stupid) "Gollum poisons the moronic Frodo's mind against Sam"
> act - with Sam made fat into the bargain.
> My favourite hate dialogue in the film is all the shortass jokes at
> Gimli's expense, and Gimli's promise to the others that "My cousin Balin
> will serve you meat rrred from the bone". The Scots should have caught John
> Rhys-Davies and hung him from a gibbet at his window for the sport of the
> crows.
> Well, Théoden sobbing at his son's grave that "No parent should be forced
> to bury his child" is quite a contender too. Rather different from the
> stoicism of the Rohirrim in the book, and of the peoples they were patterned
> on (Old English, Norsemen).
>
> Öjevind

I would bang my cup of meade on the table and shout 'Hear, hear' to the
both of you ..... !
My sentiments exactly, and if PJ dared to enter the hallowed Hall of
Meduseld at this moment, I'd gladly teach him the meaning of the words
of Tolkien under the loving strokes of my axe ...
 >> Stay informed about: The Who's Who of AFT/RABT 2008 

O. Sharp wrote:

> In terms of character, though, I thought their depicting Elrond as a
> despiser of Men, Faramir as a spineless dolt, Denethor as a scummy tyrant
> with absolutely no redeeming qualities, Merry and Pippin as juvenile
> delinquents, Treebeard as so disinterested in the world he had to be
> _tricked_ into going to Isengard, Aragorn as afraid of his title, Arwen as
> a sword-wielding lunatic who greets her beloved by holding a sword to his
> throat, Eowyn as a sword-wielding lunatic who _also_ greets Aragorn by
> holding a sword to his throat (and, in the extended version, can't cook
> either, an idea which didn't exactly serve the character _or_ the plot),
> Galadriel as an outright power-mad psychotic who upon sight of the Ring
> turns into Evil Queen Iron-Pants complete with solid-steel brassiere,
> Legolas as (in Orlando Bloom's own words) "a sort of Elvish assassin",
> and Gimli as... Gimli as something so completely and quintessentially
> non-Gimli in every way, non-heroic, non-noble, non-intelligent and, most
> ironically of all, non-funny (*) - took away a certain enjoyment of the
> movies for me. Like, nearly all of it.
>
> Grrrrr.

And of course, Frodo was such an imbecilic buffoon that he could be
tricked by Gollum into sending Sam away, via the clever and subtle trick
of throwing away some lembas and then blaming it on Sam!


-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
 >> Stay informed about: The Who's Who of AFT/RABT 2008 

Morgoth's Curse wrote:
> The Who's Who of the Tolkien Newsgroups 2008 *
>
>
> Name/Alias(es):

Jerry Solinas / Flame of the West

> Gender:

Does a sword have a gender?

> Age:

Middle

> Nationality:

"I'm a drunkard."

-- Rick, "Casablanca"

> Posting since:

1999

> Heroes:

Bullwinkle, Dogbert, Obelix, and of course Gandalf. (I believe strongly
that a person's heroes should all be fictional.)

> What are your hobbies and/or interests?:

Tolkien (duh!); Celtic music (listening, not playing); computers (Mac at
home, Linux at work); raising a family

> What do you dislike?:

White bread and Windows computers (closely analogous)

> How did you discover the works of J.R.R. Tolkien?:

Better sit down for this one. I once saw the Rankin-Bass version of The
Hobbit at my brother's house and was interested enough to read the book
(with the encouragement of my wife).

> Which of J.R.R. Tolkien's books have you read and which is your
> favorite?:

Hobbit, LotR, Silmarillion, UT, pieces of HoME, Adventures of Tom
Bombadil, Bilbo's Last Song. Also his Letters. LotR is my favorite by
a mile (1.6 km).

> Which is your favorite character from "The Hobbit"? "The Lord of the
> Rings"? "The Silmarillion"?:

Gandalf, Gandalf, and Olòrin.

> Where would you live if you could dwell anywhere in Middle-earth?:

Rivendell.

> Which lord would you serve if you lived in Middle-earth? (You can
> choose any of the lords from any of the first three ages.):

Well, in order to live in Rivendell, I guess I've gotta work for Elrond.
(BTW, I assume that, as part of the deal, I get to be an Elf, or at
least Half-elven.)

> Have you ever tried to learn to speak or write any of the languages
> that Tolkien invented?:

Nope.

> Has Tolkien inspired you to write any stories of your own?:

Nope.

> Has Tolkien had any impact on the moral choices of your life? (In
> other words, did you recall specific quotes from his works when you
> were trying to figure out what was the right thing to do?):

No, although there's no reason it couldn't happen.

> Would you recommend the works of Tolkien to your friends?:

Absolutely, and have. For some reason, some of them regard me as a
Tolkien geek.

> Do you have a favorite Tolkien-related website?:

I have yet to sign an endorsement deal with any website.

> What is your favorite Tolkien-related reference book?:

The one I use most is Foster's Complete Guide to Middle-earth.

> What other authors has Tolkien inspired you to read?:

Early CS Lewis; ER Eddison.

> What other authors do you currently enjoy reading?:

I'm presently working my way through PG Wodehouse. At the rate I'm
getting through, and considering how much there is, my only hope of
completion is to achieve Elfhood.

> Did you enjoy any of the movies about Middle-earth?:

I liked 'em all, despite agreeing with all the standard complaints.

> Bonus question: Are you friend or foe of TEUNC, the Dark Lord of
> Chaos and Strife?

Rumor has it my daughter Ermanna is of TEUNC.

> Notes:
>
>
> * As modified, edited, revised and mangled by Morgoth's Curse. I
> omitted any reference to contact information due to concerns about
> Internet security and privacy, but feel free to include that
> information in "Notes" if you wish.
>
>
> Morgoth's Curse


--

-- FotW


Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.
 >> Stay informed about: The Who's Who of AFT/RABT 2008 

> Does a sword have a gender?

Good question, they don't have physical gender but they can be assigned a
gender. People assign gender to objects all the time so why not a sword?

>> Bonus question: Are you friend or foe of TEUNC, the Dark Lord of
>> Chaos and Strife?
>
> Rumor has it my daughter Ermanna is of TEUNC.

Does that make you a foe then

Graeme
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On Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:28:21 -0500, Flame of the West
<SPAM_ME_NOT_jsolinas RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:

>Morgoth's Curse wrote:

<snippo>

>> How did you discover the works of J.R.R. Tolkien?:
>
>Better sit down for this one. I once saw the Rankin-Bass version of The
>Hobbit at my brother's house and was interested enough to read the book
>(with the encouragement of my wife).

I don't see why we need to sit down. The Rankin-Bass version of /TH/
is closer to the source than PJ's /LOTR/ is to its source, and, just
as Bakshi's /LOTR/ looked a whole better after PJ's came out (no more
amused references to F-stops and Elves, for one thing), so also the
Rankin-Bass version of /TH/ may look nearly perfect after PJ's version
of /TH/. And, after all, /TH/ is a children's book, Rankin-Bass
produced children's programming -- why should the result not be
considered quite good?
--
"A portent, therefore, happens not contrary to nature,
but contrary to what we know as nature."
 >> Stay informed about: The Who's Who of AFT/RABT 2008 

Flame of the West <SPAM_ME_NOT_jsolinas.RemoveThis@comcast.net> quoted/wroted, in
part:

>> Gender:
>
> Does a sword have a gender?

Er, well, it pokes things, sooo...


--------------------------------------------------------------------
ohh.RemoveThis@panix.com And now I can't think of a single .sig quote that
doesn't slide headlong into outright vungarity. :/
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"Sean" <no.spam.RemoveThis@no.spam> skrev i meddelandet
news:JWCfj.6905$uV6.2601@pd7urf1no...
> Öjevind Lång wrote:
>> And dereforming Toad and turning him into an aeroplane nut seemed too
>> easy to me. Poor invention.
>
> Didn't Disney depict the same thing? And yet it's perfectly
> believable, considering Toad's character. In the original story,
> even though he hadn't yet reached aviation he already hinted
> at his next possible obsession in Chapter 11:
>
> `Quite right, Ratty! How sound you always are! Yes, I've been
> a conceited old ass, I can quite see that; but now I'm going to
> be a good Toad, and not do it any more. As for motor-cars, I've
> not been at all so keen about them since my last ducking in that
> river of yours. The fact is, while I was hanging on to the edge
> of your hole and getting my breath, I had a sudden idea -- a really
> brilliant idea -- connected with motor-boats -- there, there! don't
> take on so, old chap, and stamp, and upset things; it was only
> an idea, and we won't talk any more about it now.'

I just find it a bit disappointing that after Kennethe Grahame had turned
Toad into a reformed character, William Horwood couldn't think of anything
better to do than duplicate the lethal mania for automobiles, substituting
aeroplanes for autos. He could have let Toad become obsessed with something
a little bit different - politics, standing for parliamentary election, for
example.

Öjevind
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