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Next: Beat Generation: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience
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External
Since: May 28, 2004
Posts: 65
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 3:47 pm
Post subject: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience
Archived from groups: alt>arts>poetry>comments, others (more info?)
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From: ggamble <ggam77.RemoveThis@excite.com>
>**** Any opinions on Allen Shadow?
He's a talentless hack if what you've pasted below is in any way
representative of his work.
You'll never learn to write good poetry until you become capable of
recognizing good poetry.
**** I *did* think it was pretty bad. Listening to the Mp3 didn't help
it much, either. I just got a kick out of running across a bigger
hypester than even me.
**** Did you notice the Billy Collins endorsement? Collins called him
"Engaging!".
**** Having just started on the two books Colin Ward sent me [starting
with the "Idiot's Guide" and <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://scrawlmark.org/proso.html]" target="_blank">http://scrawlmark.org/proso.html]</a> it'll
be a while, at least, before I can really determine *why*, but who
really likes Billy Collins, and *why*? To my untrained eyes, he seems
not a far throw from Rod McKuen.
**** I know he's the "king of the hill" in America, I guess, at this
point... I'd like to read some of the opinions of the learned ones
here on why... or why not... if anyone has time. I'm out the door to
sling a few pizzas and make a few bucks... and at the same time, try
to learn more about poetry. I look forward to the comments when I
return sometime past midnight.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Jun 06, 2004
Posts: 12
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 10:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 19 Jun 2004 12:47:11 -0700, feardevil420.DeleteThis@yahoo.com (Will Dockery)
wrote:
>**** Did you notice the Billy Collins endorsement? Collins called him
>"Engaging!".
>
>**** Having just started on the two books Colin Ward sent me [starting
>with the "Idiot's Guide" and <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://scrawlmark.org/proso.html]" target="_blank">http://scrawlmark.org/proso.html]</a> it'll
>be a while, at least, before I can really determine *why*, but who
>really likes Billy Collins, and *why*? To my untrained eyes, he seems
>not a far throw from Rod McKuen.
>
>**** I know he's the "king of the hill" in America, I guess, at this
>point... I'd like to read some of the opinions of the learned ones
>here on why... or why not... if anyone has time. I'm out the door to
>sling a few pizzas and make a few bucks... and at the same time, try
>to learn more about poetry. I look forward to the comments when I
>return sometime past midnight.
I've never read anything by Collins that I thought justified all the
hoopla.
But then, I haven't read that much of Collins.
But then, everything I've read by Collins is pretty much the same, and
as Hemingway said of John Dos Passos: *I don't have to eat an entire
bucket full of scabs to know it's a bucket full of scabs.*
But, some people think Collins is great.
I think the emperor has no clothes.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Jun 06, 2004
Posts: 28
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:10 am
Post subject: Re: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:56:31 GMT, ggamble wrote:
> But, some people think Collins is great.
> I think the emperor has no clothes.
Don't you dare to diss Our Billy:
He's the poet for our age.
Never mind his verse is silly,
He's the man says hills are hilly,
measuredly, without all rage.
Don't you dare to diss Our Billy!
When he wrote a Villanilly,
Collins moved to centre stage.
Never mind his verse is silly,
You'll endure it, willy-nilly,
'Cause his lines the mutes assuage!
Don't you dare to diss! Our Billy,
Rich enough to own a ghillie,
Dances nightly in a cage -
Never mind. His verse is silly -
His success makes me feel chilly -
But he's dumbwits' favourite sage.
Don't you *dare* to diss Our Billy.
Never mind his verse is silly.
(If I took the trouble to make this 25-minute piece any better it
would no longer be comparable to Billyboy's best work. Sorry it's
excruciating. So is his stuff.)
--
PJR 
(Remove NOSPAM to reply.)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience |
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External
Since: Oct 16, 2003
Posts: 56
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Peter J Ross wrote:
>
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:56:31 GMT, ggamble wrote:
>
> > But, some people think Collins is great.
> > I think the emperor has no clothes.
>
> Don't you dare to diss Our Billy:
> He's the poet for our age.
> Never mind his verse is silly,
>
> He's the man says hills are hilly,
> measuredly, without all rage.
> Don't you dare to diss Our Billy!
>
> When he wrote a Villanilly,
> Collins moved to centre stage.
> Never mind his verse is silly,
>
> You'll endure it, willy-nilly,
> 'Cause his lines the mutes assuage!
> Don't you dare to diss! Our Billy,
>
> Rich enough to own a ghillie,
> Dances nightly in a cage -
> Never mind. His verse is silly -
>
> His success makes me feel chilly -
> But he's dumbwits' favourite sage.
> Don't you *dare* to diss Our Billy.
> Never mind his verse is silly.
>
> (If I took the trouble to make this 25-minute piece any better it
> would no longer be comparable to Billyboy's best work. Sorry it's
> excruciating. So is his stuff.)
> --
> PJR
>
> (Remove NOSPAM to reply.)
Heh.
P.S.: It's been two years; he can't be Laureate now.
Anybody know who is?
--
-------(m+
~/  )_|
The most essential gift for a good writer is
a built-in, shock-proof, shit detector. -- Hemingway
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://scrawlmark.org" target="_blank">http://scrawlmark.org</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience |
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External
Since: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>beatgeneration (more info?)
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"Dennis M. Hammes", remarked:
> Peter J Ross wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:56:31 GMT, ggamble wrote:
> >
> > > But, some people think Collins is great.
> > > I think the emperor has no clothes.
> >
> > Don't you dare to diss Our Billy:
> > He's the poet for our age.
> > Never mind his verse is silly,
> >
> > He's the man says hills are hilly,
> > measuredly, without all rage.
> > Don't you dare to diss Our Billy!
> >
> > When he wrote a Villanilly,
> > Collins moved to centre stage.
> > Never mind his verse is silly,
> >
> > You'll endure it, willy-nilly,
> > 'Cause his lines the mutes assuage!
> > Don't you dare to diss! Our Billy,
> >
> > Rich enough to own a ghillie,
> > Dances nightly in a cage -
> > Never mind. His verse is silly -
> >
> > His success makes me feel chilly -
> > But he's dumbwits' favourite sage.
> > Don't you *dare* to diss Our Billy.
> > Never mind his verse is silly.
> >
> > (If I took the trouble to make this 25-minute piece any better it
> > would no longer be comparable to Billyboy's best work. Sorry it's
> > excruciating. So is his stuff.)
> > --
> > PJR
> >
> > (Remove NOSPAM to reply.)
>
> Heh.
> P.S.: It's been two years; he can't be Laureate now.
> Anybody know who is?
Interesting that I seem to have the same estimate of billy
as the smart people.
Perhaps one day I'll be an honorary smart person.
I'll get official accreditation from mail-order. I hear that you can
get the whole kit including a smart person button, a
smart person thinking cap (propeller optional) and a fake class
ring from Princeton.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience |
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External
Since: Jun 21, 2004
Posts: 25
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>arts>poetry>comments, others (more info?)
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Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> Peter J Ross wrote:
> >=20
> > On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:56:31 GMT, ggamble wrote:
> >=20
> > > But, some people think Collins is great.
> > > I think the emperor has no clothes.
> >=20
> > Don't you dare to diss Our Billy:
> > He's the poet for our age.
> > Never mind his verse is silly,
> >=20
> > He's the man says hills are hilly,
> > measuredly, without all rage.
> > Don't you dare to diss Our Billy!
> >=20
> > When he wrote a Villanilly,
> > Collins moved to centre stage.
> > Never mind his verse is silly,
> >=20
> > You'll endure it, willy-nilly,
> > 'Cause his lines the mutes assuage!
> > Don't you dare to diss! Our Billy,
> >=20
> > Rich enough to own a ghillie,
> > Dances nightly in a cage -
> > Never mind. His verse is silly -
> >=20
> > His success makes me feel chilly -
> > But he's dumbwits' favourite sage.
> > Don't you *dare* to diss Our Billy.
> > Never mind his verse is silly.
> >=20
> > (If I took the trouble to make this 25-minute piece any better it
> > would no longer be comparable to Billyboy's best work. Sorry it's
> > excruciating. So is his stuff.)
> > --
> > PJR
> >=20
> > (Remove NOSPAM to reply.)
>=20
> Heh.
> P.S.: It's been two years; he can't be Laureate now.
> Anybody know who is?
Louise Gl=FCck?
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://lcweb.loc.gov/poetry/laureate.html" target="_blank">http://lcweb.loc.gov/poetry/laureate.html</a>
Cm~<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience |
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External
Since: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Barbara's Cat" <cat.TakeThisOut@127.0.0.1> wrote in message news:MPG.1b40a9ea1c82d00b9896ed@news.verizon.net...
Dennis M. Hammes wrote:
> Peter J Ross wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:56:31 GMT, ggamble wrote:
> >
> > > But, some people think Collins is great.
> > > I think the emperor has no clothes.
> >
> > Don't you dare to diss Our Billy:
> > He's the poet for our age.
> > Never mind his verse is silly,
> >
> > He's the man says hills are hilly,
> > measuredly, without all rage.
> > Don't you dare to diss Our Billy!
> >
> > When he wrote a Villanilly,
> > Collins moved to centre stage.
> > Never mind his verse is silly,
> >
> > You'll endure it, willy-nilly,
> > 'Cause his lines the mutes assuage!
> > Don't you dare to diss! Our Billy,
> >
> > Rich enough to own a ghillie,
> > Dances nightly in a cage -
> > Never mind. His verse is silly -
> >
> > His success makes me feel chilly -
> > But he's dumbwits' favourite sage.
> > Don't you *dare* to diss Our Billy.
> > Never mind his verse is silly.
> >
> > (If I took the trouble to make this 25-minute piece any better it
> > would no longer be comparable to Billyboy's best work. Sorry it's
> > excruciating. So is his stuff.)
> > --
> > PJR
> >
> > (Remove NOSPAM to reply.)
>
> Heh.
> P.S.: It's been two years; he can't be Laureate now.
> Anybody know who is?
Louise Glück?
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://lcweb.loc.gov/poetry/laureate.html" target="_blank">http://lcweb.loc.gov/poetry/laureate.html</a>
##
Some samples, not bad but I wasn't awestruck... pretty prosy
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.artstomp.com/gluck/reading.htm" target="_blank">http://www.artstomp.com/gluck/reading.htm</a>
##
Cm~<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience |
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External
Since: Jun 22, 2004
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In message <news:cb3d9l.3vvmsjj.1@nntp.petitmorte.net>
"Peter J Ross" <gadfly.TakeThisOut@NOSPAMmeow.org> waltzed in
and whispered...
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:56:31 GMT, ggamble wrote:
>
>> But, some people think Collins is great.
>> I think the emperor has no clothes.
>
> Don't you dare to diss Our Billy:
> He's the poet for our age.
> Never mind his verse is silly,
>
> He's the man says hills are hilly,
> measuredly, without all rage.
> Don't you dare to diss Our Billy!
>
> When he wrote a Villanilly,
> Collins moved to centre stage.
> Never mind his verse is silly,
>
> You'll endure it, willy-nilly,
> 'Cause his lines the mutes assuage!
> Don't you dare to diss! Our Billy,
>
> Rich enough to own a ghillie,
> Dances nightly in a cage -
> Never mind. His verse is silly -
>
> His success makes me feel chilly -
> But he's dumbwits' favourite sage.
> Don't you *dare* to diss Our Billy.
> Never mind his verse is silly.
>
>
> (If I took the trouble to make this 25-minute piece any better it
> would no longer be comparable to Billyboy's best work. Sorry it's
> excruciating. So is his stuff.)
> --
> PJR
>
> (Remove NOSPAM to reply.)
Fun!!
--
--
Bindi
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.slingshot.to/Bindi" target="_blank">www.slingshot.to/Bindi</a>
I have a trebuche!
And a pumpkin
with your name on it.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience |
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External
Since: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bindi" <Bindi84_.DeleteThis@Hotspammail.com> wrote in message news:2jqcrtF14eh18U1@uni-berlin.de...
> In message <news:cb3d9l.3vvmsjj.1@nntp.petitmorte.net>
> "Peter J Ross" <gadfly.DeleteThis@NOSPAMmeow.org> waltzed in
> and whispered...
>
> > On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:56:31 GMT, ggamble wrote:
> >
> >> But, some people think Collins is great.
> >> I think the emperor has no clothes.
> >
> > Don't you dare to diss Our Billy:
> > He's the poet for our age.
> > Never mind his verse is silly,
> >
> > He's the man says hills are hilly,
> > measuredly, without all rage.
> > Don't you dare to diss Our Billy!
> >
> > When he wrote a Villanilly,
> > Collins moved to centre stage.
> > Never mind his verse is silly,
> >
> > You'll endure it, willy-nilly,
> > 'Cause his lines the mutes assuage!
> > Don't you dare to diss! Our Billy,
> >
> > Rich enough to own a ghillie,
> > Dances nightly in a cage -
> > Never mind. His verse is silly -
> >
> > His success makes me feel chilly -
> > But he's dumbwits' favourite sage.
> > Don't you *dare* to diss Our Billy.
> > Never mind his verse is silly.
> >
> >
> > (If I took the trouble to make this 25-minute piece any better it
> > would no longer be comparable to Billyboy's best work. Sorry it's
> > excruciating. So is his stuff.)
> > --
> > PJR
> >
> > (Remove NOSPAM to reply.)
>
>
> Fun!!
Yes.. suck peter fer sure.
>
> --
> --
> Bindi
>
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.slingshot.to/Bindi</font" target="_blank">www.slingshot.to/Bindi</font</a>>
>
> I have a trebuche!
> And a pumpkin
> with your name on it.
>
><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience |
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External
Since: Jun 06, 2004
Posts: 28
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:47 am
Post subject: Re: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:08:26 +0930, Bindi wrote:
> In message <news:cb3d9l.3vvmsjj.1@nntp.petitmorte.net>
> "Peter J Ross" <gadfly DeleteThis @NOSPAMmeow.org> waltzed in
> and whispered...
>
>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:56:31 GMT, ggamble wrote:
>>
>>> But, some people think Collins is great.
>>> I think the emperor has no clothes.
>>
>> Don't you dare to diss Our Billy:
>> He's the poet for our age.
>> Never mind his verse is silly,
>>
>> He's the man says hills are hilly,
>> measuredly, without all rage.
>> Don't you dare to diss Our Billy!
>>
>> When he wrote a Villanilly,
>> Collins moved to centre stage.
>> Never mind his verse is silly,
>>
>> You'll endure it, willy-nilly,
>> 'Cause his lines the mutes assuage!
>> Don't you dare to diss! Our Billy,
>>
>> Rich enough to own a ghillie,
>> Dances nightly in a cage -
>> Never mind. His verse is silly -
>>
>> His success makes me feel chilly -
>> But he's dumbwits' favourite sage.
>> Don't you *dare* to diss Our Billy.
>> Never mind his verse is silly.
>>
>>
>> (If I took the trouble to make this 25-minute piece any better it
>> would no longer be comparable to Billyboy's best work. Sorry it's
>> excruciating. So is his stuff.)
>> --
>> PJR
>>
>> (Remove NOSPAM to reply.)
>
> Fun!!
If Byron could satirise those of his contemporaries who were more
popular among "intelligent" readers than he was, I'm damned if I can
see why I shouldn't do the same kind of thing. Thanks for commenting.
Perhaps I ought to apply myself to doing to Collins (and Motion) what
Byron did to that other Laureate, Robert Southey.
--
PJR
Licensed to practise kookology in the Empire of Meow
(Remove NOSPAM to reply.)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience |
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External
Since: Jun 06, 2004
Posts: 28
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:49 am
Post subject: Re: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 07:11:16 -0700, Tom Bishop wrote:
> "Bindi" <Bindi84_.TakeThisOut@Hotspammail.com> wrote in message news:2jqcrtF14eh18U1@uni-berlin.de...
>> In message <news:cb3d9l.3vvmsjj.1@nntp.petitmorte.net>
>> "Peter J Ross" <gadfly.TakeThisOut@NOSPAMmeow.org> waltzed in
>> and whispered...
>>
>>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:56:31 GMT, ggamble wrote:
>>>
>>>> But, some people think Collins is great.
>>>> I think the emperor has no clothes.
>>>
>>> Don't you dare to diss Our Billy:
>>> He's the poet for our age.
>>> Never mind his verse is silly,
>>>
>>> He's the man says hills are hilly,
>>> measuredly, without all rage.
>>> Don't you dare to diss Our Billy!
>>>
>>> When he wrote a Villanilly,
>>> Collins moved to centre stage.
>>> Never mind his verse is silly,
>>>
>>> You'll endure it, willy-nilly,
>>> 'Cause his lines the mutes assuage!
>>> Don't you dare to diss! Our Billy,
>>>
>>> Rich enough to own a ghillie,
>>> Dances nightly in a cage -
>>> Never mind. His verse is silly -
>>>
>>> His success makes me feel chilly -
>>> But he's dumbwits' favourite sage.
>>> Don't you *dare* to diss Our Billy.
>>> Never mind his verse is silly.
>>>
>>>
>>> (If I took the trouble to make this 25-minute piece any better it
>>> would no longer be comparable to Billyboy's best work. Sorry it's
>>> excruciating. So is his stuff.)
>>> --
>>> PJR
>>>
>>> (Remove NOSPAM to reply.)
>>
>>
>> Fun!!
>
> Yes.. suck peter fer sure.
Translation: "Peter and Bindi have Usenet friends, including each
other. Tommythief doesn't. It sucks to be Tommythief, and that's why
he's so bitter."
--
PJR
Licensed to practise kookology in the Empire of Meow
(Remove NOSPAM to reply.)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience |
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External
Since: Jun 22, 2004
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:26 am
Post subject: Re: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In message <news:cbe4ee.3vvoag5.1@nntp.petitmorte.net>
"Peter J Ross" <gadfly.RemoveThis@NOSPAMmeow.org> waltzed in
and whispered...
> On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:08:26 +0930, Bindi wrote:
>
>> In message <news:cb3d9l.3vvmsjj.1@nntp.petitmorte.net>
>> "Peter J Ross" <gadfly.RemoveThis@NOSPAMmeow.org> waltzed in
>> and whispered...
>>
>>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 19:56:31 GMT, ggamble wrote:
>>>
>>>> But, some people think Collins is great.
>>>> I think the emperor has no clothes.
>>>
>>> Don't you dare to diss Our Billy:
>>> He's the poet for our age.
>>> Never mind his verse is silly,
>>>
>>> He's the man says hills are hilly,
>>> measuredly, without all rage.
>>> Don't you dare to diss Our Billy!
>>>
>>> When he wrote a Villanilly,
>>> Collins moved to centre stage.
>>> Never mind his verse is silly,
>>>
>>> You'll endure it, willy-nilly,
>>> 'Cause his lines the mutes assuage!
>>> Don't you dare to diss! Our Billy,
>>>
>>> Rich enough to own a ghillie,
>>> Dances nightly in a cage -
>>> Never mind. His verse is silly -
>>>
>>> His success makes me feel chilly -
>>> But he's dumbwits' favourite sage.
>>> Don't you *dare* to diss Our Billy.
>>> Never mind his verse is silly.
>>>
>>>
>>> (If I took the trouble to make this 25-minute piece any better it
>>> would no longer be comparable to Billyboy's best work. Sorry it's
>>> excruciating. So is his stuff.)
>>> --
>>> PJR
>>>
>>> (Remove NOSPAM to reply.)
>>
>> Fun!!
>
> If Byron could satirise those of his contemporaries who were more
> popular among "intelligent" readers than he was, I'm damned if I can
> see why I shouldn't do the same kind of thing. Thanks for
commenting.
> Perhaps I ought to apply myself to doing to Collins (and Motion)
what
> Byron did to that other Laureate, Robert Southey.
> --
> PJR
> Licensed to practise kookology in the Empire of Meow
>
> (Remove NOSPAM to reply.)
You're welcome, Peter!
heh, go for it!
His quatrain, Causa Belli, is a gem.
'Satire
Fools are my theme, let satire be my song.'
Lord Byron.
--
--
Bindi
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.slingshot.to/Bindi" target="_blank">www.slingshot.to/Bindi</a>
I have a trebuche!
And a pumpkin
with your name on it.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Allen Shadow: The Ginsberg Experience |
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