Amis-The Palace of the End

"ROBBIE" <johnny_argument.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c605cp$66d1a$2@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de>...
 > "selene1022" <selene1022v.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
 > news:cfdb308.0404181850.7a6a814c@posting.google.com...
  > > Here's the link to Mart's latest story in case any of you missed it in
  > > the New Yorker a few weeks ago--Love to hear a few thoughts on it. My
  > > general impression is that MA is still in his apolitical, above the
  > > fray state(reminds me a little of Henry Miller/Orwell). If only we
  > > could all run away to the beach in Uruguay! Must be nice. Hard to
  > > figure out exactly what his point is, or who it might be directed to.
  > > Still, I like the way he writes. I even liked "Yellow Dog":
  > >
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1192928,00.html</font" target="_blank">http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1192928,00.html</font</a>>
 >
 > I think half his problem is that he hasn't got much to say in fiction
 > anymore, but an admirable arsenal to say it. I suppose I could appear chippy
 > or knocky here, but he often strikes me as someone whose never really had
 > his nose in the dirt; it's all gone rather swimmingly, in this may account
 > for his curious 'behind glass' thing.


Two questions:

1. What did you think of Koba the Dread?

2. Does anyone have anything to say in fiction any more?

I was watching Turner Classic Movies this morning and saw a Bettie
Davis movie and short clips from Harold Lloyd. I was mesmerized. I
recently had the same experience watching a bio of Chaplin. I don't
know if it's age, but movies today are crap.

I admit I don't read much contemporary fiction. I've tried Amis and
not impressed (I'll take a look at the story though). Anything you
guys like. What about The Corrections ??? or Kavalier and Clay ???
(not sure if I've spelled them right). I know they aren't new but I've
seen them remaindered. The last thing I bought new was Amsterdam
because it won the Booker and I thought it sucked. Also not crazy
about Peter Carey.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Amis-The Palace of the End 

"ROBBIE" <johnny_argument RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c605cp$66d1a$2@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de>...
 > "selene1022" <selene1022v RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
 > news:cfdb308.0404181850.7a6a814c@posting.google.com...
  > > Here's the link to Mart's latest story in case any of you missed it in
  > > the New Yorker a few weeks ago--Love to hear a few thoughts on it. My
  > > general impression is that MA is still in his apolitical, above the
  > > fray state(reminds me a little of Henry Miller/Orwell). If only we
  > > could all run away to the beach in Uruguay! Must be nice. Hard to
  > > figure out exactly what his point is, or who it might be directed to.
  > > Still, I like the way he writes. I even liked "Yellow Dog":
  > >
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1192928,00.html</font" target="_blank">http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1192928,00.html</font</a>>
 >
 > I think half his problem is that he hasn't got much to say in fiction
 > anymore, but an admirable arsenal to say it. I suppose I could appear chippy
 > or knocky here, but he often strikes me as someone whose never really had
 > his nose in the dirt; it's all gone rather swimmingly, in this may account
 > for his curious 'behind glass' thing.

I wouldn't necessarily say he's had a carefree life--he's had his ups
and downs. The press has also been brutally unfair to him as well I
think. Reading this story, however, I got the feeling that while he
did a great job of hitting on the absurdity of sadism and random
violence in Saddamite Iraq, his answer to it all is to..well, what is
his answer? "If you love your own body, you don't want to hurt anyone
else." Yeah, sure--and your point is? Is it an attempt to make current
politics more... apolitical? And for someone who claims to be on the
quietist side, he certainly has been seeking out political topics
lately (ie Koba). I think MA has plenty of things left to
say--particularly about popular culture and post-modern life--but with
this he really seemed out of his element for some reason. Maybe it's
just me.

JV<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Pete Bayle" <pete_bayle.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8d9486cd.0404190741.29795e10@posting.google.com...
 > "ROBBIE" <johnny_argument.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<c605cp$66d1a$2@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de>...
  > > "selene1022" <selene1022v.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
  > > news:cfdb308.0404181850.7a6a814c@posting.google.com...
   > > > Here's the link to Mart's latest story in case any of you missed it in
   > > > the New Yorker a few weeks ago--Love to hear a few thoughts on it. My
   > > > general impression is that MA is still in his apolitical, above the
   > > > fray state(reminds me a little of Henry Miller/Orwell). If only we
   > > > could all run away to the beach in Uruguay! Must be nice. Hard to
   > > > figure out exactly what his point is, or who it might be directed to.
   > > > Still, I like the way he writes. I even liked "Yellow Dog":
   > > >
<font color=brown>   > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1192928,00.html</font" target="_blank">http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1192928,00.html</font</a>>
  > >
  > > I think half his problem is that he hasn't got much to say in fiction
  > > anymore, but an admirable arsenal to say it. I suppose I could appear
chippy
  > > or knocky here, but he often strikes me as someone whose never really
had
  > > his nose in the dirt; it's all gone rather swimmingly, in this may
account
  > > for his curious 'behind glass' thing.
 >
 >
 > Two questions:
 >
 > 1. What did you think of Koba the Dread?

Haven't read it yet but read the beginning in a shop and was very much
grabbed.


 >
 > 2. Does anyone have anything to say in fiction any more?
 >

Well everything's been said; in that respect it's like pop music, though I
think the novel is a healthier state than pop music in the sense that how
Gatsby for example, reached its audience hasn't changed that much whereas
the apparatus around other art forms keeps changing. On the other hand the
novel industry has produced its fair share of Britney Spears (see Harry
Potter and Bridget Jones) It gets debased but it has the potential to be
great again whereas something like pop music seems to be dead. This is
pretty incoherent stuff I know. Having said that I haven't read any new
novels since christ knows when so it could all be crap.


 > I was watching Turner Classic Movies this morning and saw a Bettie
 > Davis movie and short clips from Harold Lloyd. I was mesmerized. I
 > recently had the same experience watching a bio of Chaplin. I don't
 > know if it's age, but movies today are crap.


Yeah, pretty much; charmless is often the best description. Like pop music,
too many of the wrong type of people have got in on the act.

 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"ROBBIE" <johnny_argument.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c60uhq$6o61a$2@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de...
 >
 > "Pete Bayle" <pete_bayle.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
 > news:8d9486cd.0404190741.29795e10@posting.google.com...
  > > "ROBBIE" <johnny_argument.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:<c605cp$66d1a$2@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de>...
   > > > "selene1022" <selene1022v.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
   > > > news:cfdb308.0404181850.7a6a814c@posting.google.com...
   > > > > Here's the link to Mart's latest story in case any of you missed it
in
   > > > > the New Yorker a few weeks ago--Love to hear a few thoughts on it.
My
   > > > > general impression is that MA is still in his apolitical, above the
   > > > > fray state(reminds me a little of Henry Miller/Orwell). If only we
   > > > > could all run away to the beach in Uruguay! Must be nice. Hard to
   > > > > figure out exactly what his point is, or who it might be directed
to.
   > > > > Still, I like the way he writes. I even liked "Yellow Dog":
   > > > >
<font color=brown>   > > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1192928,00.html</font" target="_blank">http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1192928,00.html</font</a>>
   > > >
   > > > I think half his problem is that he hasn't got much to say in fiction
   > > > anymore, but an admirable arsenal to say it. I suppose I could appear
 > chippy
   > > > or knocky here, but he often strikes me as someone whose never really
 > had
   > > > his nose in the dirt; it's all gone rather swimmingly, in this may
 > account
   > > > for his curious 'behind glass' thing.
  > >
  > >
  > > Two questions:
  > >
  > > 1. What did you think of Koba the Dread?
 >
 > Haven't read it yet but read the beginning in a shop and was very much
 > grabbed.
 >
 >
  > >
  > > 2. Does anyone have anything to say in fiction any more?
  > >
 >
 > Well everything's been said; in that respect it's like pop music, though I
 > think the novel is a healthier state than pop music in the sense that how
 > Gatsby for example, reached its audience hasn't changed that much whereas
 > the apparatus around other art forms keeps changing. On the other hand the
 > novel industry has produced its fair share of Britney Spears (see Harry
 > Potter and Bridget Jones) It gets debased but it has the potential to be
 > great again whereas something like pop music seems to be dead. This is
 > pretty incoherent stuff I know. Having said that I haven't read any new
 > novels since christ knows when so it could all be crap.
 >
 >
  > > I was watching Turner Classic Movies this morning and saw a Bettie
  > > Davis movie and short clips from Harold Lloyd. I was mesmerized. I
  > > recently had the same experience watching a bio of Chaplin. I don't
  > > know if it's age, but movies today are crap.
 >
 >
 > Yeah, pretty much; charmless is often the best description. Like pop
music,
 > too many of the wrong type of people have got in on the act.
 >
  > >
 >
I don't know what you consider new. Anything that's happened in the last 15
years seems recents to me. I always enjoy Amis but never remember the
novels a few months after I've read them. I don't think Julian Barnes is as
good as Amis, yet his work sticks with me for some reason. Some of Pat
Barker's stuff is okay, I guess. I think, Robbie, that you might enjoy John
Lancaster's Mr. Phillips. You might also say it's a Bridget Jones for
middle-aged men, and you wouldn't be far wrong - yet it's a good read. If
you want something strange, try an American, Donald Antrim, especially Elect
Mr. Robinson for a Better World.

Michael Winterbottom has made some decent films, and the Polish Brothers are
doing some interesting stuff here in the states. Often, the best movies
coming out of America are those that seem to understand that the age of the
great film artistic statement is over and so are not over ambitious but
small and understated.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"ROBBIE" <johnny_argument DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c60uhq$6o61a$2@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de>...

  > >
  > > 2. Does anyone have anything to say in fiction any more?
  > >
 >
 > Well everything's been said; in that respect it's like pop music,

I spent some time listening to some "new" releases. Of course none of
them are really new. What I really wanted was a copy of Rossini's
Stabst Mater but no luck.

1. Graham Parker - Your Country. I liked this one alot (by far the
best, though I admit I do like Graham Parker. Best thing about it was
it was unpretentious. I also liked his cover of Sugaree. I think this
is an eample of the kind of music the old guys can make if they stick
to the basics and don't try so hard.

2. Eric Clapton's Tribute ot Robert Johnson - Not sure what to say
here. The musicianship in some sense was incredible. Yet something
seemed wrong. I think it was the fact that Clapton took these intimate
but powerful songs and enlarged them to a scale that just didn't feel
right to me. Someday I'll buy it and might change my mind. Wished he
would have played Terraplane BLues.

3. Dylan Bootleg Series 6 - 1964 Halloween Concert (All acoustic with
Joan Baez) - amazing to hear Dylan young. Still I'd heard most of it
before. Couldn't hear the second disk which had most of the new stuff
and all the Baez stuff (inlcuding Mama YOu've Been On My Mind). Some
day but not today.

4. Joe Strummer - Last before he died I think - Hmmmm. I liked some of
it. But felt it was uneven. A fairly nice cover of Redemption Song.
Lots of different genres.

5. Caetano Veloso - About 25 covers from Cole Porter and Dylan (It all
right ma) to Harry Belafonte (Jamaica Farewell). Very weird.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Bobby Farouk" <farouk.DeleteThis@noninemilespam.com> wrote in message news:<1088k0be55gdb5a.DeleteThis@corp.supernews.com>...
 > "ROBBIE" <johnny_argument.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:c60uhq$6o61a$2@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de...
  > >
  > > "Pete Bayle" <pete_bayle.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
  > > news:8d9486cd.0404190741.29795e10@posting.google.com...
   > > > "ROBBIE" <johnny_argument.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:<c605cp$66d1a$2@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de>...
   > > > > "selene1022" <selene1022v.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
   > > > > news:cfdb308.0404181850.7a6a814c@posting.google.com...
   > > > > > Here's the link to Mart's latest story in case any of you missed it
 > in
   > > > > > the New Yorker a few weeks ago--Love to hear a few thoughts on it.
 > My
   > > > > > general impression is that MA is still in his apolitical, above the
   > > > > > fray state(reminds me a little of Henry Miller/Orwell). If only we
   > > > > > could all run away to the beach in Uruguay! Must be nice. Hard to
   > > > > > figure out exactly what his point is, or who it might be directed
 > to.
   > > > > > Still, I like the way he writes. I even liked "Yellow Dog":
   > > > > >
<font color=brown>   > > > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1192928,00.html</font" target="_blank">http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1192928,00.html</font</a>>
   > > > >
   > > > > I think half his problem is that he hasn't got much to say in fiction
   > > > > anymore, but an admirable arsenal to say it. I suppose I could appear
 > chippy
   > > > > or knocky here, but he often strikes me as someone whose never really
 > had
   > > > > his nose in the dirt; it's all gone rather swimmingly, in this may
 > account
   > > > > for his curious 'behind glass' thing.
   > > >
   > > >
   > > > Two questions:
   > > >
   > > > 1. What did you think of Koba the Dread?
  > >
  > > Haven't read it yet but read the beginning in a shop and was very much
  > > grabbed.
  > >
  > >
   > > >
   > > > 2. Does anyone have anything to say in fiction any more?
   > > >
  > >
  > > Well everything's been said; in that respect it's like pop music, though I
  > > think the novel is a healthier state than pop music in the sense that how
  > > Gatsby for example, reached its audience hasn't changed that much whereas
  > > the apparatus around other art forms keeps changing. On the other hand the
  > > novel industry has produced its fair share of Britney Spears (see Harry
  > > Potter and Bridget Jones) It gets debased but it has the potential to be
  > > great again whereas something like pop music seems to be dead. This is
  > > pretty incoherent stuff I know. Having said that I haven't read any new
  > > novels since christ knows when so it could all be crap.
  > >
  > >
   > > > I was watching Turner Classic Movies this morning and saw a Bettie
   > > > Davis movie and short clips from Harold Lloyd. I was mesmerized. I
   > > > recently had the same experience watching a bio of Chaplin. I don't
   > > > know if it's age, but movies today are crap.
  > >
  > >
  > > Yeah, pretty much; charmless is often the best description. Like pop
 > music,
  > > too many of the wrong type of people have got in on the act.
  > >
   > > >
  > >
 > I don't know what you consider new. Anything that's happened in the last 15
 > years seems recents to me. I always enjoy Amis but never remember the
 > novels a few months after I've read them. I don't think Julian Barnes is as
 > good as Amis, yet his work sticks with me for some reason. Some of Pat
 > Barker's stuff is okay, I guess.

I like Barnes and BArker's Trilogy. But I have the same problem you
have with Amis. It almost seems at my age the only fiction to read are
things you intend to reread or have already read. At least if we can
recall something.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"selene1022" <selene1022v.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cfdb308.0404191126.3482d770@posting.google.com...
 > "ROBBIE" <johnny_argument.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<c605cp$66d1a$2@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de>...
  > > "selene1022" <selene1022v.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
  > > news:cfdb308.0404181850.7a6a814c@posting.google.com...
   > > > Here's the link to Mart's latest story in case any of you missed it in
   > > > the New Yorker a few weeks ago--Love to hear a few thoughts on it. My
   > > > general impression is that MA is still in his apolitical, above the
   > > > fray state(reminds me a little of Henry Miller/Orwell). If only we
   > > > could all run away to the beach in Uruguay! Must be nice. Hard to
   > > > figure out exactly what his point is, or who it might be directed to.
   > > > Still, I like the way he writes. I even liked "Yellow Dog":
   > > >
<font color=brown>   > > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1192928,00.html</font" target="_blank">http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1192928,00.html</font</a>>
  > >
  > > I think half his problem is that he hasn't got much to say in fiction
  > > anymore, but an admirable arsenal to say it. I suppose I could appear
chippy
  > > or knocky here, but he often strikes me as someone whose never really
had
  > > his nose in the dirt; it's all gone rather swimmingly, in this may
account
  > > for his curious 'behind glass' thing.
 >
 > I wouldn't necessarily say he's had a carefree life--he's had his ups
 > and downs. The press has also been brutally unfair to him as well I
 > think. Reading this story, however, I got the feeling that while he
 > did a great job of hitting on the absurdity of sadism and random
 > violence in Saddamite Iraq, his answer to it all is to..well, what is
 > his answer? "If you love your own body, you don't want to hurt anyone
 > else." Yeah, sure--and your point is? Is it an attempt to make current
 > politics more... apolitical? And for someone who claims to be on the
 > quietist side, he certainly has been seeking out political topics
 > lately (ie Koba). I think MA has plenty of things left to
 > say--particularly about popular culture and post-modern life--but with
 > this he really seemed out of his element for some reason. Maybe it's
 > just me.
 >
 > JV

Oh I know its not carefree- I read his brilliant autobiography and that's
quite a dark book. Just, I dunno, Oxford, journalism, novel at 21 or
whatever the rich literatto. Apart from being a midget with bad teeth his
memoirs where never going to be called Mein Kampf...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"ROBBIE" <johnny_argument DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<c61dmn$6sqrm$2@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de>...
 > "selene1022" <selene1022v DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
 > news:cfdb308.0404191126.3482d770@posting.google.com...
  > > "ROBBIE" <johnny_argument DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:<c605cp$66d1a$2@ID-200782.news.uni-berlin.de>...
   > > > "selene1022" <selene1022v DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
   > > > news:cfdb308.0404181850.7a6a814c@posting.google.com...

  >>
 > Oh I know its not carefree- I read his brilliant autobiography and that's
 > quite a dark book. Just, I dunno, Oxford, journalism, novel at 21 or
 > whatever the rich literatto.

You forgot sex symbol--I've never really seen it though.

 > Apart from being a midget with bad teeth his
 > memoirs where never going to be called Mein Kampf...

Damn you! You had me laughing for five minutes.

JV<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Amis-The Palace of the End 

"selene1022" <selene1022v DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message >
 > Damn you! You had me laughing for five minutes.

Now here we have what would have been, in the days of our now departed
de-facto moderator, a serious breech of the New Laws of humour and ethics.
Quicker than any of us could have said 'humour is an incredible weapon,
watch closely those who wish to legislate and police it' our SF
correspondent would have come rushing in with the dogs (having come straight
from slapping a restriction order on a guy playing Camptown Races on his
banjo) in to let us know that laughing at such a line practically put a
skew-whiff swastika on both our arms. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why
people lashed out in the end.



 >
 > JV<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Amis-The Palace of the End