Armageddon Reef

On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:54:38 -0700 (PDT), dvandom.DeleteThis@haven.eyrie.org
(Dave Van Domelen) wrote:

> First I've heard of that. Of course, I'm waiting until it comes out in
>paperback. The $18 ebook was insulting to my intelligence (as in, "If you
>think I see that pricing as anything but an excuse to later say ebooks don't
>work, you think I'm an idiot"), and I prefer to avoid hardbacks because of
>the bulk.
>
> Dave Van Domelen, wonders if Tor is trying to be the anti-Baen....
>


according to the text they did hug the coasts as much as possible with
gravest misgivings about setting off across open water for any
distance.
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Brian McDonald wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:54:38 -0700 (PDT), dvandom.DeleteThis@haven.eyrie.org
> (Dave Van Domelen) wrote:
>
>
>> First I've heard of that. Of course, I'm waiting until it comes out in
>> paperback. The $18 ebook was insulting to my intelligence (as in, "If you
>> think I see that pricing as anything but an excuse to later say ebooks don't
>> work, you think I'm an idiot"), and I prefer to avoid hardbacks because of
>> the bulk.
>>
>> Dave Van Domelen, wonders if Tor is trying to be the anti-Baen....
>>
>>
>
>
> according to the text they did hug the coasts as much as possible with
> gravest misgivings about setting off across open water for any
> distance.
>
Agree, of the course the Highest Ranking Seaman wanted to go a different
route but was over-ruled by his non-Seaman Superiors.

--
*
Paul Howard
*
Need a Wizard? Call on Harry Dresden not that Potter boy. [Very Big Grin]
*
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On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:58:36 -0500, Paul Howard
wrote:


>> according to the text they did hug the coasts as much as possible with
>> gravest misgivings about setting off across open water for any
>> distance.
>>
>Agree, of the course the Highest Ranking Seaman wanted to go a different
>route but was over-ruled by his non-Seaman Superiors.

yeah it's not like that would ever happen in the real world.
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"Dave Van Domelen" wrote in message

> First I've heard of that. Of course, I'm waiting until it comes out
in
> paperback. The $18 ebook was insulting to my intelligence (as in, "If you
> think I see that pricing as anything but an excuse to later say ebooks
don't
> work, you think I'm an idiot"), and I prefer to avoid hardbacks because of
> the bulk.
>
> Dave Van Domelen, wonders if Tor is trying to be the anti-Baen....
>
Actually e-books do work!! If you look around the bit torrent sites you will
find all of David Webers and Baens books available as downloads at no cost,
except some computer time. There seems to be some sort of unofficial contest
to see who can get the latest book uploaded and seeding - much better than
paying hardback prices or waiting a year for the paperback to come out -
can't beat the price and if you don't like the book just delete it!
For those unfamiliar with the world of bit torrents the best downloader
seems to be Azureus Vuse by Sourceforge. Just Google for either name,
Azureus is a free download and the site has lots of free music videos for
download.
To find bit torrent sites just Google for bit torrent and take your pick of
the sites. You might even find the latest version of the baen cd being
seeded as an rar file.
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"Brian McDonald" wrote in message >
> according to the text they did hug the coasts as much as possible with
> gravest misgivings about setting off across open water for any
> distance.

Galleys, at least the traditional ones used in the Mediterranean Sea are not
suitable for use in rougher waters, of necessity they are built narrow and
with low freeboard. Thus they are vulnerable to any kind of storm. Therefore
they must be able to run to port or a lee shore should the weather turn bad.
Additionally, because of the large crew they must be able to provision often
and therefore must not be far from a port. Mediterranean galleys would
travel from port to port, putting in nightly to anchor and reprovision. If
the weather looked like it was going to be bad they would remain in port and
any attempt to travel trans-Atlantic distances is simply not feasible.

But then again, in print, the author can do anything he likes. Though if he
forces his reader to suspend disbelief too much he loses his audience!
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Spacy Bickerson wrote:
> "Dave Van Domelen" wrote in message
>
>> First I've heard of that. Of course, I'm waiting until it comes out
> in
>> paperback. The $18 ebook was insulting to my intelligence (as in, "If you
>> think I see that pricing as anything but an excuse to later say ebooks
> don't
>> work, you think I'm an idiot"), and I prefer to avoid hardbacks because of
>> the bulk.
>>
>> Dave Van Domelen, wonders if Tor is trying to be the anti-Baen....
>>
> Actually e-books do work!! If you look around the bit torrent sites you will
> find all of David Webers and Baens books available as downloads at no cost,
> except some computer time. There seems to be some sort of unofficial contest
> to see who can get the latest book uploaded and seeding - much better than
> paying hardback prices or waiting a year for the paperback to come out -
> can't beat the price and if you don't like the book just delete it!
> For those unfamiliar with the world of bit torrents the best downloader
> seems to be Azureus Vuse by Sourceforge. Just Google for either name,
> Azureus is a free download and the site has lots of free music videos for
> download.

Conversely, if you do like the book, you can eventually purchase
the paperback when it comes out (my preferred strategy) or sign
up for the Baen monthly web subscription service or at least let
drop them a line to know that you appreciate their enlightened
attitude towards DRM free books.

By the way, you don't actually need to use bit torrents to download
the books, they are also available from sites like fifth imperium:

<http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/>

I will probably eventually buy an e-book reader, just so I can
haul a bunch of books along with me when I go on business trips
for less mass than the paperback books themselves.

-Wayne
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On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:10:59 -0500, "Spacy Bickerson"
wrote:


>Actually e-books do work!! If you look around the bit torrent sites you will
>find all of David Webers and Baens books available as downloads at no cost,
>except some computer time. There seems to be some sort of unofficial contest
>to see who can get the latest book uploaded and seeding - much better than
>paying hardback prices or waiting a year for the paperback to come out -
>can't beat the price and if you don't like the book just delete it!
>For those unfamiliar with the world of bit torrents the best downloader
>seems to be Azureus Vuse by Sourceforge. Just Google for either name,
>Azureus is a free download and the site has lots of free music videos for
>download.
>To find bit torrent sites just Google for bit torrent and take your pick of
>the sites. You might even find the latest version of the baen cd being
>seeded as an rar file.
>


so how does anyone make a living at writing if everyone is mooching
free books? i guess the parasites wouldn't have bought anything
anyhow but it's still got to be annoying.
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In article ,
Brian McDonald wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:10:59 -0500, "Spacy Bickerson"
> wrote:
>
>
> >Actually e-books do work!! If you look around the bit torrent sites you will
> >find all of David Webers and Baens books available as downloads at no cost,
> >except some computer time. There seems to be some sort of unofficial contest
> >to see who can get the latest book uploaded and seeding - much better than
> >paying hardback prices or waiting a year for the paperback to come out -
> >can't beat the price and if you don't like the book just delete it!
> >For those unfamiliar with the world of bit torrents the best downloader
> >seems to be Azureus Vuse by Sourceforge. Just Google for either name,
> >Azureus is a free download and the site has lots of free music videos for
> >download.
> >To find bit torrent sites just Google for bit torrent and take your pick of
> >the sites. You might even find the latest version of the baen cd being
> >seeded as an rar file.
> >
>
>
> so how does anyone make a living at writing if everyone is mooching
> free books? i guess the parasites wouldn't have bought anything
> anyhow but it's still got to be annoying.

Because the people getting the free electronic copies are also buying
the hardbacks.

You might as well ask how authors made any money when people could just
borrow their books for free from the local library.

I've never heard of a case of a free electronic copy of a book becoming
available *hurting* sales. Most people who have released free
electronic copies of their books have found that sales of the paper
versions went up afterwards.

--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
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On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:25:18 -0500, "Spacy Bickerson"
wrote:

>
>"Brian McDonald" wrote in message >
>> according to the text they did hug the coasts as much as possible with
>> gravest misgivings about setting off across open water for any
>> distance.
>
>Galleys, at least the traditional ones used in the Mediterranean Sea are not
>suitable for use in rougher waters, of necessity they are built narrow and
>with low freeboard. Thus they are vulnerable to any kind of storm. Therefore
>they must be able to run to port or a lee shore should the weather turn bad.
>Additionally, because of the large crew they must be able to provision often
>and therefore must not be far from a port. Mediterranean galleys would
>travel from port to port, putting in nightly to anchor and reprovision. If
>the weather looked like it was going to be bad they would remain in port and
>any attempt to travel trans-Atlantic distances is simply not feasible.
>
>But then again, in print, the author can do anything he likes. Though if he
>forces his reader to suspend disbelief too much he loses his audience!
>

supposedly the phoenecians went out into the real oceans. we know
they were in england way back and they could well have made it all the
way round africa. those central american legends of the bearded gods
returning sound somewhat familiar too.
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On Oct 29, 10:22 pm, Don Sample wrote:
> In article ,
> Brian McDonald wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:10:59 -0500, "Spacy Bickerson"
> > wrote:
>
> > >Actually e-books do work!! If you look around the bit torrent sites you will
> > >find all of David Webers and Baens books available as downloads at no cost,
> > >except some computer time. There seems to be some sort of unofficial contest
> > >to see who can get the latest book uploaded and seeding - much better than
> > >paying hardback prices or waiting a year for the paperback to come out -
> > >can't beat the price and if you don't like the book just delete it!
> > >For those unfamiliar with the world of bit torrents the best downloader
> > >seems to be Azureus Vuse by Sourceforge. Just Google for either name,
> > >Azureus is a free download and the site has lots of free music videos for
> > >download.
> > >To find bit torrent sites just Google for bit torrent and take your pick of
> > >the sites. You might even find the latest version of the baen cd being
> > >seeded as an rar file.
>
> > so how does anyone make a living at writing if everyone is mooching
> > free books? i guess the parasites wouldn't have bought anything
> > anyhow but it's still got to be annoying.
>
> Because the people getting the free electronic copies are also buying
> the hardbacks.
>
> You might as well ask how authors made any money when people could just
> borrow their books for free from the local library.
>
> I've never heard of a case of a free electronic copy of a book becoming
> available *hurting* sales. Most people who have released free
> electronic copies of their books have found that sales of the paper
> versions went up afterwards.
>
> --
> Quando omni flunkus moritati
> Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>

I myself first found Weber when I was only ten years old at my school
library. A ten year old can ill afford the hefty price of Baen
hardbacks. Paperbacks even demanded strict rationing of my available
money.
When I borrowed War of Honor from the county library, I thought I'd
hit jackpot. When I found Dahak's Orbit, I _knew_ I'd hit jackpot.
Without the Baen CDs I would never, ever have moved past Weber. I'd
have just patiently waited out the years. In fact, I don't think I'd
ever have moved past Honor Harrington. I didn't much care for the
first non-Harrington novel of his I read, and if not for the freely
available ebooks I would have never sampled any others.
As a result of the ebooks I'm now a Ring of Fire fan, a Safehold fan,
a John Ringo fan, a fan of David Drake, of Eric Flint and of the
military science fiction genre in general.
I've bought quite a few of the books, and have made efforts to give
back to the community that first supplied me with the ebooks.
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On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 23:22:16 -0400, Don Sample
wrote:


>> >To find bit torrent sites just Google for bit torrent and take your pick of
>> >the sites. You might even find the latest version of the baen cd being
>> >seeded as an rar file.
>> >
>>
>>
>> so how does anyone make a living at writing if everyone is mooching
>> free books? i guess the parasites wouldn't have bought anything
>> anyhow but it's still got to be annoying.
>
>Because the people getting the free electronic copies are also buying
>the hardbacks.
>
>You might as well ask how authors made any money when people could just
>borrow their books for free from the local library.
>
>I've never heard of a case of a free electronic copy of a book becoming
>available *hurting* sales. Most people who have released free
>electronic copies of their books have found that sales of the paper
>versions went up afterwards.


was thinking of the bit torrent brigade when i said parasites.

i do have to wonder what the proliferation of ebooks is going to do
longterm to the authors cash flow though. right now i for instance
buy a lot of paper books a year and use the ebooks mostly to introduce
new readers to the authors or the odd time to catch up a book i didn't
catch in print.

the library isn't the greatest analogy for what's coming. to get a
book from a library involved a certain amount of effort and
inconvenience. to get a book off the net requires virtually no effort
at all and will certainly become a far more common thing in the future
than it is now.
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>
> supposedly the phoenecians went out into the real oceans. we know
> they were in england way back and they could well have made it all the
> way round africa. those central american legends of the bearded gods
> returning sound somewhat familiar too.

The Phoenicians supposedly sent a fleet clear around Africa, but the fleet
hugged the coast. The trip supposedly took three years because the fleet
pulled on shore to sow and harvest a crop when it grew short of supplies.
The Phoenicians also traded with Britain for tin, but they did not use
galleys for the purpose, instead a form of roundship.

Galleys are warships, the rowers take up too much space to allow for any
cargo therefore its range of action is severely limited.
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>>>
>>> so how does anyone make a living at writing if everyone is mooching
>>> free books? i guess the parasites wouldn't have bought anything
>>> anyhow but it's still got to be annoying.
>>
>
>
> was thinking of the bit torrent brigade when i said parasites.
>
People thought the same thing when paperbacks were invented. In fact I once
knew a book shop owner who referred to them as "instruments of the devil"
and refused to have them in his store.

Actually I view it as another way of weeding out the bad authors - if the
writing is good enough I'll buy a paperback - if not nothing lost!!
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