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BBC I: The Sultan of Spin Spun

 
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allport

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Since: Jun 27, 2003
Posts: 241



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:53 pm
Post subject: BBC I: The Sultan of Spin Spun
Archived from groups: alt>books>george-orwell (more info?)

The _Guardian's_ Emily Bell makes some fair points today about the wider
implications of the Dodgy Dossier. Like the war itself, the government's row
with the BBC is far from being a black-and-white affair, and personally I
think the recent history of the Corporation includes several important wrong
turns on questions of content and perceived mission. But one has to compare
favorably the BBC's determination to take investigative reporting
seriously - even if this means estrangement from a government that
ultimately oversees its charter - with the toe-curling cowardice exhibited
by the American networks in the past year. Broadcast journalism is
*supposed* to make people in power angry and uncomfortable - which would
apparently be a breaking headline to the assembled news teams of ABC, CBS,
NBC, et al, who throughout the Iraq war seemed more interested in which one
of them could construct the most obsequious red-white-'n'-blue montage for
their soft-focus non-stories.

-----------------------------

War claims row: Comment: Media enemies spin out of control: By Emily Bell.
Guardian, June 27.

Somewhere in the BBC, maybe in the desk of Ann Sloman, its chief political
adviser, there is a dossier of correspondence between the government, or
more particularly No 10 Downing Street and the corporation.

This may be a slim volume or a bulging file. We know it exists because the
lobby briefing given to journalists yesterday mentioned "extensive private
correspondence" with the Beeb on the tricky issue of the document which may
or may not have been sexed up.

The interesting thing about Alastair Campbell's assertions and the BBC's
rebuttals is that we may never know what form this private dialogue took.
This despite the fact that the public both paid for Andrew Gilligan's
original story and also paid for the government time expended in seeking to
destroy it, and to some extent the credibility of the BBC. Campbell's
bravura performance showed his own contempt for objective and truthful
reporting with a slip here and an aside there: an unsubstantiated and
unprovable claim that the BBC had an "anti-war agenda", his description of
the Mirror newspaper as anti-war and his description of the Sun not as
"pro-war" but "passionately supportive". There is also his dark intonation
that there were serious concerns among senior people within the BBC about
the original story.

Journalistic antipathy towards a man addicted to spin is hard to suppress.
Particularly when one remembers that almost a year ago Downing Street was
dropping a submission to the press complaints commission against the
Spectator and Peter Oborne for claims that the prime minister had sought an
enhanced role at the Queen Mother's funeral.

Another humiliation for Campbell, this time on the Mail on Sunday, was an
incorrect rebuttal of the claims that Cherie Booth had taken advice from
convicted conman Peter Foster.

Campbell's arrogant desire to do for Andrew Gilligan what Norman Tebbit once
did for Kate Adie (compiling a highly critical dossier on BBC coverage
following her reports of the bombing of Tripoli in 1986), makes one less
inclined to examine serious issues for the BBC.

It is quite legitimate to ask whether an independent licence-funded
broadcaster should run stories on the strength of one unattributable source.
Or indeed whether the corporation should be pursuing investigative
journalism at all, which, not only carries an agenda but shapes it too.

It is equally valuable to ask what kind of pressure a government puts on a
licence-funded broadcaster pre charter renewal through its "extensive
private correspondence". It is difficult to examine either of these very
important issues properly when the two participants are so closed in their
procedures and so opaque in their accountability.

Campbell and Blair do not demonstrate much respect for the free press and no
tolerance of the inevitable fact that as more reporters actually go to war
than cabinet ministers and special advisers, that their view is occasionally
going to be different.

Equally, the BBC seldom apologises for anything and has an unfortunate
tendency to adopt its own spin instead of exposing its procedures to more
debate and analysis. Arrogance runs through the taps of White City every bit
as much as it flows into the gutters of Whitehall.

The attempts to discredit and humiliate Gilligan personally instead of
legitimately question editorial processes of the BBC is particularly
despicable. What the affair highlights more than anything else is that
unless and until we have a greater respect - or even proper legislation -
for freedom of information we will always have partial reporting.

But to deny journalists at the BBC the opportunity to investigate and break
stories makes a nonsense of its independent status.

Both the BBC and Campbell are communicators on a grand scale, but they are
both found wanting in terms of openness and accountability. This is the real
lesson at the heart of the dodgy dossiers.

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haynongunahora

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 69



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:14 pm
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"Alan Allport" <allport.RemoveThis@sasdot.upenndot.edu> wrote in message
news:bdias9$a1ho$1@netnews.upenn.edu...
-----------------------------
 >
 > War claims row: Comment: Media enemies spin out of control: By Emily
Bell.
 > Guardian, June 27.
 >
 > Or indeed whether the corporation should be pursuing investigative
 > journalism at all, which, not only carries an agenda but shapes it
too.
 >

Rather bizarre statement, don't you think? "Not only carries an
agenda, but shapes it too"? Agenda, singular? Truth? Okay. Something
else? Not okay.

If journalists were to cease investigating would they cease to publish
or simply report the propaganda of those in power, i.e. someone else's
agenda?

Hay<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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nobody2

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 41



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 8:24 pm
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"Alan Allport" <allport RemoveThis @sasdot.upenndot.edu> wrote in message
news:bdias9$a1ho$1@netnews.upenn.edu...

 > Broadcast journalism is
 > *supposed* to make people in power angry and uncomfortable -

No it's supoosed to report the news. And hopefully the truth. An old
fashioned concept I know, among the professional historians.


 > It is quite legitimate to ask whether an independent licence-funded
 > broadcaster should run stories on the strength of one unattributable
source.
 > Or indeed whether the corporation should be pursuing investigative
 > journalism at all, which, not only carries an agenda but shapes it too.

How can you be independent and licence-funded? It's government media pure
and simple. But unfortunately unelected and unaccoutable government media.

 >
 > Equally, the BBC seldom apologises for anything and has an unfortunate
 > tendency to adopt its own spin instead of exposing its procedures to more
 > debate and analysis. Arrogance runs through the taps of White City every
bit
 > as much as it flows into the gutters of Whitehall.

The difference is that the government is elected.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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haynongunahora

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 69



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 8:24 pm
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"bayle" <nobody DeleteThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:zcbLa.2527$p8.109799@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
 >
 > "Alan Allport" <allport DeleteThis @sasdot.upenndot.edu> wrote in message
 > news:bdias9$a1ho$1@netnews.upenn.edu...
 >
  > > Broadcast journalism is
  > > *supposed* to make people in power angry and uncomfortable -
 >
 > No it's supoosed to report the news. And hopefully the truth. An old
 > fashioned concept I know, among the professional historians.
 >
 >
  > > It is quite legitimate to ask whether an independent
licence-funded
  > > broadcaster should run stories on the strength of one
unattributable
 > source.
  > > Or indeed whether the corporation should be pursuing investigative
  > > journalism at all, which, not only carries an agenda but shapes it
too.
 >
 > How can you be independent and licence-funded? It's government media
pure
 > and simple. But unfortunately unelected and unaccoutable government
media.
 >
  > >
  > > Equally, the BBC seldom apologises for anything and has an
unfortunate
  > > tendency to adopt its own spin instead of exposing its procedures
to more
  > > debate and analysis. Arrogance runs through the taps of White City
every
 > bit
  > > as much as it flows into the gutters of Whitehall.
 >
 > The difference is that the government is elected.
 >

As opposed to that in the US, which is unelected?

Hay<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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ahogue

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Since: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 242



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:51 pm
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bayle wrote:

 >"Alan Allport" <allport RemoveThis @sasdot.upenndot.edu> wrote in message
 >news:bdias9$a1ho$1@netnews.upenn.edu...
 >
 >
 >
  >> Broadcast journalism is
  >>*supposed* to make people in power angry and uncomfortable -
  >>
  >>
 >
 >No it's supoosed to report the news. And hopefully the truth. An old
 >fashioned concept I know, among the professional historians.
 >
 >
 >
snip

 >How can you be independent and licence-funded? It's government media pure
 >and simple. But unfortunately unelected and unaccoutable government media.
 >
 >
snip

 >The difference is that the government is elected.
 >
 >

If the media's job is to report the truth (which I'm sure would square
pretty well with what you believe, or you think it would), then what
does being accountable to the electorate have to do with anything? Truth
isn't a majority-opinion matter, unless I don't get what you mean by truth.

Alan H.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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ahogue

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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:29 pm
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Hay Nongunahora wrote:

 >"Alan Allport" <allport.RemoveThis@sasdot.upenndot.edu> wrote in message
 >news:bdias9$a1ho$1@netnews.upenn.edu...
 > -----------------------------
 >
 >
  >>War claims row: Comment: Media enemies spin out of control: By Emily
  >>
  >>
 >Bell.
 >
 >
  >>Guardian, June 27.
  >>
  >>Or indeed whether the corporation should be pursuing investigative
  >>journalism at all, which, not only carries an agenda but shapes it
  >>
  >>
 >too.
 >
 >
 >
 >Rather bizarre statement, don't you think? "Not only carries an
 >agenda, but shapes it too"? Agenda, singular? Truth? Okay. Something
 >else? Not okay.
 >
 >If journalists were to cease investigating would they cease to publish
 >or simply report the propaganda of those in power, i.e. someone else's
 >agenda?
 >
 >Hay
 >
 >

We've seen the results very clearly in the US. The media becomes a
mouth-peice for the administration and other powerful people and
institutions. This is what right-wingers are usually talking about when
they use the code word "objective" in reference to the media. What they
actually mean is passive.

Likewise, if you impose a strict adherence to "telling the truth", well,
they can only really with certainty do that in a limited way. If they
report that Bush says that there are WMDs in Iraq, they can hardly be
contradicted. Of course Bush said that. If they suggest that WMDs are
probably not in Iraq, then people who don't agree can jump up and down
yelling "truth" and "objectivity". Of course, it's fine for Bush to make
unsubstantiated and irresponsible claims. That's "strong leadership".
But if the media comes anywhere near anything but passing on official
messages you'll have right-wingers screaming for blood.

The result, of course, is that whatever Bush says becomes news, and what
is news about Bush has an insidious way of becoming news about Iraq if
it's repeated often enough. (See, once again, the polls showing that
over 50% of americans thought that SH was personally involved in the 911
attack, taken just before the war started.)

The ideal of truth is something humans cannot get rid of, nor should
they. People who claim to be relativists are just posing; you don't hear
of anyone getting run over by a car because they doubted the car existed
(well, alright, with the obvious caveats for the mentally ill &c.). But
when you get into complex questions, people are not going to agree on
the truth, which is different from saying that truth doesn't exist.
Some, as they say, are better than others. But there's always a
temptation for people like Bayle, who seem to feel that they (as well as
the electorate, apparently) are endowed as if from above with Truth to
attack the media from this kind of angle. Incidentally, they have a lot
in common with Bush, who is a born again christian (I doubt many people
here really understand what that means), and therefore knows with
unwavering certainty that he is right and god is on his side.

People on the left do something similar. You see it around here all the
time. But they don't attack the same way. They don't generally go for
the "old fashioned virtues" ruse, prefering instead to posit evil or
Machiavellian motives for those who disagree with them. Although it can
be just as ugly, and is often used just as dishonestly, the general idea
is probably closer to the truth.

Alan H.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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bridegam

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Since: Jun 27, 2003
Posts: 613



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2003 9:24 pm
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Alan Hogue wrote:

 > ....
 >
 > We've seen the results very clearly in the US. The media becomes a
 > mouth-peice for the administration and other powerful people and
 > institutions. This is what right-wingers are usually talking about when
 > they use the code word "objective" in reference to the media. What they
 > actually mean is passive.

.....

Via Romenesko, here's an article in the Columbia Journalism Review.
Intelligent analysis, but odd use of the word "objectivity" to mean
uncritical acceptance of official statements. It could also be seen as an
"objective" approach to weigh official statements as skeptically as
statements from any other source.

<http://www.cjr.org/year/03/4/cunningham.asp>

/M<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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nobody2

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Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 41



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:25 pm
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"Alan Hogue" <ahogue.TakeThisOut@lawdot.berkeleydot.edu> wrote in message
news:befnkp$2a5t$1@agate.berkeley.edu...


 >But there's always a
 > temptation for people like Bayle, who seem to feel that they (as well as
 > the electorate, apparently) are endowed as if from above with Truth to
 > attack the media from this kind of angle. Incidentally, they have a lot
 > in common with Bush, who is a born again christian (I doubt many people
 > here really understand what that means), and therefore knows with
 > unwavering certainty that he is right and god is on his side.

I thought you were sharper than this.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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ahogue

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Since: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 242



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:25 pm
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bayle wrote:

 >"Alan Hogue" <ahogue.TakeThisOut@lawdot.berkeleydot.edu> wrote in message
 >news:befnkp$2a5t$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
 >
 >
 >
 >
  >>But there's always a
  >>temptation for people like Bayle, who seem to feel that they (as well as
  >>the electorate, apparently) are endowed as if from above with Truth to
  >>attack the media from this kind of angle. Incidentally, they have a lot
  >>in common with Bush, who is a born again christian (I doubt many people
  >>here really understand what that means), and therefore knows with
  >>unwavering certainty that he is right and god is on his side.
  >>
  >>
 >
 >I thought you were sharper than this.
 >
 >
 >

Just the reaction I expected.

Alan H.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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nobody2

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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:28 pm
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"Alan Hogue" <ahogue DeleteThis @lawdot.berkeleydot.edu> wrote in message
news:behgdh$bg0$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
 > bayle wrote:
 >
  > >"Alan Hogue" <ahogue DeleteThis @lawdot.berkeleydot.edu> wrote in message
  > >news:befnkp$2a5t$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
   > >>But there's always a
   > >>temptation for people like Bayle, who seem to feel that they (as well as
   > >>the electorate, apparently) are endowed as if from above with Truth to
   > >>attack the media from this kind of angle. Incidentally, they have a lot
   > >>in common with Bush, who is a born again christian (I doubt many people
   > >>here really understand what that means), and therefore knows with
   > >>unwavering certainty that he is right and god is on his side.
   > >>
   > >>
  > >
  > >I thought you were sharper than this.
  > >
  > >
  > >
 >
 > Just the reaction I expected.
 >
 > Alan H.
 >

Here's the kind of truth I'm talking about. A truth that was ignored by the
editor of the (formerly) most important newspaper in the US. A truth that
the reporter knew wasn't being reported correctly. It is a kind of bias I
have noticed repeatedly, and is now being revealed by those within the
institution itself..

For example:

*

[Excerpt from David Margolick's piece in the new Vanity Fair]
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.andrewsullivan.com/" target="_blank">http://www.andrewsullivan.com/</a>

Worse, Raines would not let facts get in the way of a story he had ordered
up or a point he decided to make. "Howell wanted a thought inserted high in
one of my stories," says a metro reporter. "The only problem was, it wasn't
true. Mind you, this was on my beat, a beat he didn't really know about. I
said to the editor who was the message-bearer that it wasn't true, and it
didn't belong in the story, period. A while later he came back to me and
said, 'Well, you're right, but Howell wants it anyway.' It became clear that
the editor had not fully conveyed my arguments to Howell, because he was
afraid to. I said, 'F--- that -- I'll tell him myself.' And he literally
seized my arm and said, 'You don't want to do that.' And ultimately the
editor-intermediary and I compromised on a version of what Howell wanted
that was just vague enough not to mean much, but still close enough to a
falsehood to make my very uncomfortable."

*

Now I do not know for sure that the reporter was right and Raines wrong.
Perhaps he was a bad reporter. But notice the similarity with this and the
claim that the CIA and thus Bush "knew" that the uranium claim was false
because a former Ambassador investigated and said it was. Just because this
Ambassador turns out to be right does it mean that he "knew" that it was a
forgery or that what the forgery claimed wasn't true. If you tell me that
England will win the next World Cup, and it happens, does that mean that you
knew it.

Decision making under uncertainty is very difficult. Take the example of
the operation to separate the conjoined twins. Because they both died, the
family is now claiming that they should have listened to the German doctors
who told them it shouldn't be done. In what sense did the doctors know that
it shouldn't be done? Leaving aside a claim I heard that there was no choice
because the pressure inside their skulls was becoming to great, all
operations involve risk. And risk can only be estimated accurately with a
large number of cases. But even then, these estimates are about populations
not individuals. Maybe some day we will know who was right. For now the
doctors statements are merely, as they are rightly called, medical opinions.

Unlike the New York Times case mentioned above, these are hard cases. But
the NYT can't even get the simple cases right and then acts like it knows
the truth about the hard cases. You say I act like the truth comes from God.
No. I know by working in intelligence and medical research and through a
lifetime of studying the attempts of philosophers to find it, that truth is
very hard to find. But we both agree that it often exists.

Do you have to be a right-wing Christian to know that the NYT and the BBC
are both so filled with bias as to make their reporting virtually useless?
Is this the kind of media you want?

"And ultimately the editor-intermediary and I compromised on a version of
what Howell wanted that was just vague enough not to mean much, but still
close enough to a falsehood to make my very uncomfortable."

The truth doesn't come from God but it damn sure doesn't come from the BBC
and the NYT.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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ahogue

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(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:09 pm
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bayle wrote:

 >"Alan Hogue" <ahogue.RemoveThis@lawdot.berkeleydot.edu> wrote in message
 >news:behgdh$bg0$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
 >
 >
  >>bayle wrote:
  >>
  >>
  >>
   >>>"Alan Hogue" <ahogue.RemoveThis@lawdot.berkeleydot.edu> wrote in message
   >>>news:befnkp$2a5t$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>>But there's always a
   >>>>temptation for people like Bayle, who seem to feel that they (as well as
   >>>>the electorate, apparently) are endowed as if from above with Truth to
   >>>>attack the media from this kind of angle. Incidentally, they have a lot
   >>>>in common with Bush, who is a born again christian (I doubt many people
   >>>>here really understand what that means), and therefore knows with
   >>>>unwavering certainty that he is right and god is on his side.
   >>>>
   >>>>
   >>>>
   >>>>
   >>>I thought you were sharper than this.
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
   >>>
  >>Just the reaction I expected.
  >>
  >>Alan H.
  >>
  >>
  >>
 >
 >Here's the kind of truth I'm talking about. A truth that was ignored by the
 >editor of the (formerly) most important newspaper in the US. A truth that
 >the reporter knew wasn't being reported correctly. It is a kind of bias I
 >have noticed repeatedly, and is now being revealed by those within the
 >institution itself..
 >
 >For example:
 >
 >
 >
*snip*

 >Do you have to be a right-wing Christian to know that the NYT and the BBC
 >are both so filled with bias as to make their reporting virtually useless?
 >Is this the kind of media you want?
 >
 >"And ultimately the editor-intermediary and I compromised on a version of
 >what Howell wanted that was just vague enough not to mean much, but still
 >close enough to a falsehood to make my very uncomfortable."
 >
 >The truth doesn't come from God but it damn sure doesn't come from the BBC
 >and the NYT.
 >
 >

Fair enough. I appologize for lumping you with people like George Bush.

But although you may not be among them, I would still like to invite
everyone here to contemplate what it means to have a born again
christian as head of the most powerful country in the world. This means
that, first of all, he thinks that God agrees with whatever opinion he
may have, and that the best way to make decisions is not rationally but
through an emotional process that he has been taught brings him in
contact with God. He is one of the people who are (or, at least, were)
the constituents of people like Pat Robertson. Robertson said that 911
happened because God was unhappy that America wasn't persecuting gay
people enough. These people are extremely provincial. They do not know
anything much about anything beyond their own social set, let alone the
country, and do not consider such knowledge desirable anyway. Bigotry is
taken as a sign of faith. Such people are enemies of tolerance and civil
rights and wouldn't know what to do with diplomacy even if they could
fake it. And I just think it's amazing that this, like so many other
disturbing facts about the President, has just slipped right down the
memory hole, like the election "assistance" provided by his brother in
Florida.

You know, I like Andrew Sullivan. He has some funny opinions, but he's
an honest guy. Not long ago I saw a terrible show where he and Hitchens
were giving a kind of double interview on CSPAN. It was early in the
morning and they both looked like they needed three more cups of coffee
and the host was an embarrassment. So they just rambled back and forth
for a while. At one point, in an apparent attempt to boost Bush,
Sullivan said something along the lines of: "Sure, Bush isn't very smart
and doesn't seem to think about anything, but maybe that's the kind of
President we need." At least he's honest. But dumb *and* a religious
fanatic? It's a disgrace, and the consequences are already manifest.*

Alan H.

* Let's leave the war out of it, since reasonable people can still
disagree about that, and consider, instead, Guantanamo Bay, the Patriot
Act, the extreme -- perhaps unprecedented -- spinning leading up to the
war, etc etc.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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