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Next: J.R.R. Tolkien: The Seven Halls of the Dwarves
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 225
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am
Post subject: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered
Archived from groups: alt>fan>tolkien, others (more info?)
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Last night the Cartoon Network broadcast the old Bakshi LOTR. My husband
wanted to watch it because he couldn't remember it at all from when we saw
it in the theater. I reminded him they never finished it, but we watched
anyway.
It was even worse that I remembered. Not only the travesty of stopping in
the middle of the Two Towers with no warning, but the animation was just
downright weird. The mix of various styles, with the main characters done
in a cartoonish Rankin-Bass style, and the other figures done in that
strange mix of real/animated, everything backlit in that awful red.
Some really bad things that stood out: Mispronuciations--Bale-in for Balin,
Sella-born for Celeborn, Mine-ass Tirith instead of Minas Tirith (that last
provoking incredulous laughter)
Blood--very inconsistant; Frodo gets stabbed at Weathertop, and not only is
there no blood, there's not even a hole in his shirt! Yet in the battle
sequences at Helm's Deep, they show spurts of red gore (when everyone knows
Orcs have black blood)
Elves--Legolas was cross-eyed and Galadriel, well, she would not have
impressed anyone with her beauty, a Disney princess is prettier.
Sam--someone on the newsgroup a few months ago described the Bakshi Sam as a
sack of potatoes. Spot on!
Sound track--really awful, the music sometimes wildly inappropriate to what
was occuring on-screen
Confrontations--very strange and hesitant, for example when the Ringwraiths
are supposed to be chasing Frodo to the Ford, they all sit around on their
horses and stare at each other for what seemed like several minutes.
Frodo's actually in grabbing distance of them before he even moves to ride
away. The same for the battle scenes, where they stare at each other for a
long time. I know, that does happen in any type of battle scene to build up
tension, but for some reason here it has the totally opposite effect.
Orcs--really, very peculiar looking. My husband thought they looked like
the Tuscan raiders in Star Wars.
Treebeard--OMG! Words do not even begin to describe how bad! He looked
more like a walking carrot than a walking tree.
All these years, I wondered if I had been doing the movie an injustice
because I was ticked off that they did not finish it.
Nope!
Next Sunday they're showing the old Rankin-Bass ROTK.
Barbara |
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Since: Feb 06, 2004
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"aelfwina" <aelfwina.DeleteThis@cableone.net> wrote in message
news:10b41r2drgla20c@corp.supernews.com...
> Last night the Cartoon Network broadcast the old Bakshi LOTR. My husband
> wanted to watch it because he couldn't remember it at all from when we saw
> it in the theater. I reminded him they never finished it, but we watched
> anyway.
>
> It was even worse that I remembered. Not only the travesty of stopping in
> the middle of the Two Towers with no warning, but the animation was just
> downright weird. The mix of various styles, with the main characters done
> in a cartoonish Rankin-Bass style, and the other figures done in that
> strange mix of real/animated, everything backlit in that awful red.
>
> Some really bad things that stood out: Mispronuciations--Bale-in for
Balin,
> Sella-born for Celeborn, Mine-ass Tirith instead of Minas Tirith (that
last
> provoking incredulous laughter)
> <snip>
Yes, seeing it for the first time since the live actionm makes you realize
how truly truly terrible the cartoon was -
Saruman is (mostly) "Aruman" - becuase allegedly the real word is too
similar to Sauron (pronounced through the Bakshi as "Sore-on").
The Balrog and his infamous fluffy slippers.
And WHAT is with Gandalf and his twitchery. Every time he was on screen he
was twiddling his fingers and gesticulating like some nervous guy who is off
his meds.
And Gollum seemed to walk with a kind of gangsta roll - obviouly a very hip
character.
Boromir as a Viking = pathetic.
Neil Anderson |
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Since: Apr 19, 2004
Posts: 127
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 6:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 2048
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 8:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Leslie Adams <leslieis.RemoveThis@rogers.com> wrote:
> This movie was so bad it was wonderful. It was interesting to note
> the few scenes that Peter Jackson apperars to have copied from this
> movie.
Copied scenes? Which ones?
I know the scene hiding from the Nazgul under a tree is similar, but for
that one Jackson can claim to have used Tolkien's illustration of this
scene (which is what the Bakshi movie used).
Can you remember other examples (where you can't say both movies copied
the book)?
Christopher
--
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Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard >> Stay informed about: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered |
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 2048
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Guglielmo Portas <guglielmoportas.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You must've also loved the Balrog in Moria. Big slow dude with a
> lion's head and wings. He floated around like a slow butterfly, then
> falls down the chasm. Some badass.
ROTFL! >> Stay informed about: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered |
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Since: May 24, 2004
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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aelfwina wrote:
>
> Last night the Cartoon Network broadcast the old Bakshi LOTR. My husband
> wanted to watch it because he couldn't remember it at all from when we saw
> it in the theater. I reminded him they never finished it, but we watched
> anyway.
>
> It was even worse that I remembered. Not only the travesty of stopping in
> the middle of the Two Towers with no warning, but the animation was just
> downright weird. The mix of various styles, with the main characters done
> in a cartoonish Rankin-Bass style, and the other figures done in that
> strange mix of real/animated, everything backlit in that awful red.
>
> Some really bad things that stood out: Mispronuciations--Bale-in for Balin,
> Sella-born for Celeborn, Mine-ass Tirith instead of Minas Tirith (that last
> provoking incredulous laughter)
> Blood--very inconsistant; Frodo gets stabbed at Weathertop, and not only is
> there no blood, there's not even a hole in his shirt! Yet in the battle
> sequences at Helm's Deep, they show spurts of red gore (when everyone knows
> Orcs have black blood)
> Elves--Legolas was cross-eyed and Galadriel, well, she would not have
> impressed anyone with her beauty, a Disney princess is prettier.
> Sam--someone on the newsgroup a few months ago described the Bakshi Sam as a
> sack of potatoes. Spot on!
> Sound track--really awful, the music sometimes wildly inappropriate to what
> was occuring on-screen
> Confrontations--very strange and hesitant, for example when the Ringwraiths
> are supposed to be chasing Frodo to the Ford, they all sit around on their
> horses and stare at each other for what seemed like several minutes.
> Frodo's actually in grabbing distance of them before he even moves to ride
> away. The same for the battle scenes, where they stare at each other for a
> long time. I know, that does happen in any type of battle scene to build up
> tension, but for some reason here it has the totally opposite effect.
> Orcs--really, very peculiar looking. My husband thought they looked like
> the Tuscan raiders in Star Wars.
> Treebeard--OMG! Words do not even begin to describe how bad! He looked
> more like a walking carrot than a walking tree.
>
> All these years, I wondered if I had been doing the movie an injustice
> because I was ticked off that they did not finish it.
> Nope!
>
> Next Sunday they're showing the old Rankin-Bass ROTK.
> Barbara
I still appreciate the original cartoon. It's what got me into the
Trilogy to start with, so I have fond memories of it.
Only thing that always has bothered me quite a bit about it is
continuously calling Saruman, Aruman.
I have no idea where THAT came from! >> Stay informed about: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered |
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 225
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"vince garcia" <vggarciaXX DeleteThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:40B26648.49AB@ix.netcom.com...
> aelfwina wrote:
> >
> > Last night the Cartoon Network broadcast the old Bakshi LOTR. My
husband
> > wanted to watch it because he couldn't remember it at all from when we
saw
> > it in the theater. I reminded him they never finished it, but we
watched
> > anyway.
> >
> > It was even worse that I remembered. >
>
> I still appreciate the original cartoon. It's what got me into the
> Trilogy to start with, so I have fond memories of it.
Nostalgia has a lot to answer for. The only people I've talked to who like
it either saw it very young, or as a first exposure to Tolkien.  Of
course, there are a lot of abysmal things I like because of nostalgia, too.
Barbara
>
> Only thing that always has bothered me quite a bit about it is
> continuously calling Saruman, Aruman.
Supposedly he thought it would be too confusing to have two villians who
started with an "S".
> I have no idea where THAT came from! >> Stay informed about: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered |
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Since: Apr 16, 2004
Posts: 29
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 9:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"The American" <a_real_american DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in
news:H7-dndWJDabBiy_dRVn-iQ@conversent.net:
> Hahaha...
> I saw it last night too.
> And I can't believe I'm about to post this but.... I liked it!
I found the animation technique interesting too, perhaps that was the
only thing that prevented me from switching off the VCR and do something
else (I saw it on video)
> This is from someone who didn't like the changes in the current
> Fellowship and has yet to see TT and RotK because it's just too
> painful for me to watch all the changes I know that are there as well.
A perfectly respectable position, yet AFAIK Bakhi's adaptation is not
particularly accurate either, and someone who hasn't read the book will
be at a lost in less than 10 minutes, that at least, doesn't happend in
PJ's movies.
> Tuskin Raiders! I knew those Orcs looked familiar. Which came first I
> wonder?
Dear god, I'm returning my Star Wars Freak badge first thing in the
morning!! How couldn't I stablish the resemblance?
--
"La cosa más bella que podemos experimentar es el misterio.
Es la fuente de cualquier arte y ciencia verdaderos".
ALBERT EINSTEIN
Javier Caselli Fernández
aka Naryldor (javicaselliNOSPAM@yahoo.es) >> Stay informed about: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered |
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Since: May 24, 2004
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 10:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Well I was thinking about the scene where they are hiding under the tree, as
well as the " proudfeet " part at the party. There is also the nazgul
slashing the beds in Bree which is never really addressed in the book in
terms of who.
Leslie
"Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard RemoveThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gmtsc.1578$Oq.14869802@news-text.cableinet.net...
> Leslie Adams <leslieis RemoveThis @rogers.com> wrote:
> > This movie was so bad it was wonderful. It was interesting to note
> > the few scenes that Peter Jackson apperars to have copied from this
> > movie.
>
> Copied scenes? Which ones?
>
> I know the scene hiding from the Nazgul under a tree is similar, but for
> that one Jackson can claim to have used Tolkien's illustration of this
> scene (which is what the Bakshi movie used).
>
> Can you remember other examples (where you can't say both movies copied
> the book)?
>
> Christopher
>
> --
> ---
> Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard
>
> >> Stay informed about: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered |
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 2048
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 10:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Leslie Adams <leslieis DeleteThis @rogers.com> wrote:
> "Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard DeleteThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:gmtsc.1578$Oq.14869802@news-text.cableinet.net...
>> Leslie Adams <leslieis DeleteThis @rogers.com> wrote:
>>> This movie was so bad it was wonderful. It was interesting to note
>>> the few scenes that Peter Jackson apperars to have copied from this
>>> movie.
>>
>> Copied scenes? Which ones?
>>
>> I know the scene hiding from the Nazgul under a tree is similar, but
>> for that one Jackson can claim to have used Tolkien's illustration
>> of this scene (which is what the Bakshi movie used).
>>
>> Can you remember other examples (where you can't say both movies
>> copied the book)?
>
> Well I was thinking about the scene where they are hiding under the
> tree, as well as the " proudfeet " part at the party. There is also
> the nazgul slashing the beds in Bree which is never really addressed
> in the book in terms of who.
The Nazgul scene could be a direct lift from Bakshi to Jackson.
Even then he could call it a 'homage'... 
I wonder how long it will be before current films include homages to PJs
LotR films. Never I hope.
Christopher
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Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard >> Stay informed about: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered |
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Since: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 38
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 11:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)
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>And Gollum seemed to walk with a kind of gangsta roll - obviouly a very hip
>character.
Did anyone notice that he sounded like the illegitimate lovechild of Boris
Karloff and Ringo Starr?
Jose L. Solano
-------------------------------
A devious, degenerate defender of the devil
-------------------------------
"It's too damn safe." >> Stay informed about: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered |
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Since: Oct 21, 2003
Posts: 212
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 12:11 am
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>fan>tolkien, others (more info?)
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Since: Feb 06, 2004
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 12:39 am
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"vince garcia" <vggarciaXX DeleteThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:40B26648.49AB@ix.netcom.com...
> aelfwina wrote:
> >
> > Last night the Cartoon Network broadcast the old Bakshi LOTR. My
husband
> > wanted to watch it because he couldn't remember it at all from when we
saw
> > it in the theater. I reminded him they never finished it, but we
watched
> > anyway.
> >
> > It was even worse that I remembered. Not only the travesty of stopping
in
> > the middle of the Two Towers with no warning, but the animation was just
> > downright weird. The mix of various styles, with the main characters
done
> > in a cartoonish Rankin-Bass style, and the other figures done in that
> > strange mix of real/animated, everything backlit in that awful red.
> >
> > <snip>
> Only thing that always has bothered me quite a bit about it is
> continuously calling Saruman, Aruman.
>
> I have no idea where THAT came from!
I think it was so that the viewers/listeners did not confuse Sauron and
Saruman.
I distinctly heard Gandalf say Saruman at one stage though - I believe it
was just after he met North American Aragorn, Gimli of the sack-hat and
gotch-eyed Legolas in Fangorn.
Neil Anderson >> Stay informed about: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered |
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Posts: 323
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 1:45 am
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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stephen.TakeThisOut@nomail.com wrote:
> I rented the Bakshi film and the Rankin-Bass "Return of the King"
> for New Year's this year. It was a hoot. They are damn funny if you
> watch them in the right frame of mind. Alcohol is not even required.
>
I don't know. I'd have to be drunk, stoned, or tied up (probably all
three, actually) to watch RB's RotK a second time!
--
Bill
"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not-- >> Stay informed about: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered |
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Since: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 537
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 2:09 am
Post subject: Re: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In rec.arts.books.tolkien Bill O'Meally <OMeallyMD DeleteThis @wise.rr.com> wrote:
: stephen DeleteThis @nomail.com wrote:
:> I rented the Bakshi film and the Rankin-Bass "Return of the King"
:> for New Year's this year. It was a hoot. They are damn funny if you
:> watch them in the right frame of mind. Alcohol is not even required.
:>
: I don't know. I'd have to be drunk, stoned, or tied up (probably all
: three, actually) to watch RB's RotK a second time!
: --
: Bill
How can you not enjoy "Where there's a whip, there's a way!!"? Those
orcs are accomplished singers. They must practice a lot.
Stephen >> Stay informed about: Bakshi's LOTR worse than I remembered |
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