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External
Since: Sep 11, 2004
Posts: 24
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:41 am
Post subject: Bern and Luthien and...?
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)
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| I noticed that the character of Sauron didn't exist until after Tolkien
started to write the story of the fall of Numenor.
Who, then, did Beren and Luthien fight in the early drafts?
-==Kensu==-<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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External
Since: Feb 09, 2004
Posts: 53
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Bern and Luthien and...? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <Xns955211436B55Ekensuhotmailcom DeleteThis @207.115.63.158>,
Chris Schumacher <kensu__ DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>I noticed that the character of Sauron didn't exist until after Tolkien
>started to write the story of the fall of Numenor.
>Who, then, did Beren and Luthien fight in the early drafts?
Tevildo, Prince of Cats (no, really).
See _Lost Tales_ for details.
Richard.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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Since: Jul 18, 2004
Posts: 111
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Bern and Luthien and...? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Chris Schumacher" <kensu__ RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns955211436B55Ekensuhotmailcom@207.115.63.158...
>I noticed that the character of Sauron didn't exist
> until after Tolkien started to write the story of the
> fall of Numenor. Who, then, did Beren and Luthien
> fight in the early drafts?
Tevildo > Thu > Gorthu > Gorthaur > Thauron > Sauron
All of these are really different names for the same character except
the first. Tevildo, the Prince of Cats, who Beren and Luthien first
faced, contributed various details to 'Thu' but was clearly a different
character (and not the only 'source' for 'Thu').<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Bern and Luthien and...? |
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 651
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Bern and Luthien and...? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:41:50 GMT, Chris Schumacher
<kensu__ DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>I noticed that the character of Sauron didn't exist until after Tolkien
>started to write the story of the fall of Numenor.
>Who, then, did Beren and Luthien fight in the early drafts?
>
>
Tevildo, Prince of Cats, and then Thû, the Necromancer.
the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:softrat@pobox.com
--
"The woman gave to me and I did teunce." -- Adman in the Garbage
of Eating'<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Bern and Luthien and...? |
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 651
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Bern and Luthien and...? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:34:53 GMT, "Conrad Dunkerson"
<conrad.dunkerson RemoveThis @worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>All of these are really different names for the same character except
>the first. Tevildo, the Prince of Cats, who Beren and Luthien first
>faced, contributed various details to 'Thu' but was clearly a different
>character (and not the only 'source' for 'Thu').
>
Thû was evil out of revenge. Have you ever seen how angry a shaved cat
is?
the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:softrat@pobox.com
--
"The woman gave to me and I did teunce." -- Adman in the Garbage
of Eating'<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Bern and Luthien and...? |
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 157
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:53 am
Post subject: Re: Bern and Luthien and...? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:41:50 GMT, Chris Schumacher
<kensu__.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> posted the following:
>I noticed that the character of Sauron didn't exist until after Tolkien
>started to write the story of the fall of Numenor.
Actually this is not quite true. The character of "Thu" (the
precursor to Sauron) appears in the Lay of Leithian, doesn't it?
-Chris<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Bern and Luthien and...? |
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Since: Mar 08, 2004
Posts: 678
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:08 am
Post subject: Re: Bern and Luthien and...? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:41:50 GMT,
Chris Schumacher <kensu__.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I noticed that the character of Sauron didn't exist until after Tolkien
> started to write the story of the fall of Numenor.
> Who, then, did Beren and Luthien fight in the early drafts?
In the earliest version (BoLT) there is Tevildo, Prince of Cats, who, while
I wouldn't say is a proto-Sauron, occupies that place in the story.
Later came Thu, which is an early variant of Sauron.
--
Aaron Clausen
mightymartianca.DeleteThis@hotmail.com
WOODY: How's it going Mr. Peterson?
NORM : It's a dog eat dog world out there, Woody, and I'm wearing
milkbone underwear.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Bern and Luthien and...? |
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Since: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 42
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:56 am
Post subject: Re: Bern and Luthien and...? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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the softrat posted on 8/27/04 8:22 PM:
>
> Thû was evil out of revenge. Have you ever seen how angry a shaved cat
> is?
Cats are easily provoked to anger, shaving them is not
necessary.
My favorite method is to chase the cat with the
remote-control Chrysler PT Cruiser.
Huan, the hound of Valinor, with an on-topic .sig
--
Yet at length Draugluin escaped, and fleeing back into the
tower he died before Sauron's feet; and as he died he told
his master: 'Huan is there!'<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Bern and Luthien and...? |
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Since: Mar 08, 2004
Posts: 27
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:19 am
Post subject: Re: Bern and Luthien and...? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Huan the hound" <huanthehound.RemoveThis@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:2paedpFiv2nfU1@uni-berlin.de...
> the softrat posted on 8/27/04 8:22 PM:
> >
> > Thû was evil out of revenge. Have you ever seen how angry a shaved cat
> > is?
>
> Cats are easily provoked to anger, shaving them is not
> necessary.
>
> My favorite method is to chase the cat with the
> remote-control Chrysler PT Cruiser.
This is why one form of execution in the ancient world was to wrap up the
miscreant in a burlap bag with a few cats, and then toss the bag into the
Tiber. Mrowr!
--
zimriel sbc dot
at global net
..
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/zimriel/" target="_blank">http://pages.sbcglobal.net/zimriel/</a>
*new improved shorter .sig*<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Bern and Luthien and...? |
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 651
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:53 am
Post subject: Re: Bern and Luthien and...? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 22:56:46 -0400, Huan the hound
<huanthehound.TakeThisOut@netscape.net> wrote:
>the softrat posted on 8/27/04 8:22 PM:
>>
>> Thû was evil out of revenge. Have you ever seen how angry a shaved cat
>> is?
>
>Cats are easily provoked to anger, shaving them is not
>necessary.
>
I think that you missed my point.
the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:softrat@pobox.com
--
Arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics. No
matter if you win or lose you're still retarded.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Bern and Luthien and...? |
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