Beowulf, Tolkien, Lewis, Sayers

On Aug 1, 1:22 pm, Öjevind Lång <bredband.....TakeThisOut@ojevind.lang> wrote:
> "Steve Hayes" <hayesm....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandetnews:506594ttifudupu9netv6nd148p65q06b1@4ax.com...
>
> > On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:55:22 GMT, Sinda....TakeThisOut@Pandaturion.mor.dr wrote:
>
> >>I have always been puzzled by Tolkien's unhappiness with CS Lewis's
> >>conversion, instead of to Catholicism as Tolkien hoped, but rather to
> >>what he described as Ulster Protestantism.  Does anyone know what that
> >>is all about?  I've always heard CSL described as mainstream
> >>Christianity without overt doctrinal affiliation.
>
> > Lewis was Anglican, and also from Ulster. In Ireland Anglicanism was a
> > minority religion, and tended distinguish itself selfconsciously from the
> > Catholics. It tended to be a bit more "in yer face" towards Catholics than
> > the
> > average member of the Church of England of Lewis's generation.
>
> I have no recollection of Lewis being contemptuous of Catholicism. If
> anything, the boot was on the other foot; Tolkien despised the Church of
> England and was very disappointed that Lewis did not become a Catholic when
> he embraced Christianity.

there might be more about that in THE ULSTERIOR MOTIVE, an unpublished
essay by tolkien about lewis's attitude towards the Catholic Church.
he seems to have thought lewis had "regressed" (as in THE PILGRIM'S
REGRESS) to being an ulster Protestant.

there's not much doubt that lewis was raised in a very anti-Catholic
environment, where irish Catholics were regularly called "bog-
trotters" or "bog-rats." we have a fairly vitriolic diary entry by
lewis from his childhood where he lambastes High Church Anglicans as
"english hypocrites and romish liars" who "wanted to be Roman Catholic
but were afraid to say so."

according to carpenter's THE INKLINGS (where i got all this), when
lewis resumed the practice of Xtianity it was relatively "low church,"
but it got gradually "higher." he also says there were moments of
tension, but doesn't say much to indicate their nature, apart from
citing lewis's disapproval of tolkien's devotion to saints.

there is one odd thing in lewis's history of 16th-c. literature, where
he says that, in order to compromise between denying the claims of the
Catholic Church by wriing "Roman Catholic" (never mind that tolkien
used the term!) and affirming it by wriiting "Catholic," he uses the
erm "Papist." he adds that it's only used dyslogistically in ulster;
but is it ever used anywhere but ulster?

Count Menelvagor wrote:
> there is one odd thing in lewis's history of 16th-c. literature, where
> he says that, in order to compromise between denying the claims of the
> Catholic Church by wriing "Roman Catholic" (never mind that tolkien
> used the term!) and affirming it by wriiting "Catholic," he uses the
> erm "Papist." he adds that it's only used dyslogistically in ulster;
> but is it ever used anywhere but ulster?

It certainly /has/ been used elsewhere. But I can tell you from my own
experience, it is a damnable problem for someone in Lewis's position,
which I more or less share, to refer to Roman Catholicism without
offending someone. There is a penumbra of Name Magic over the whole
business.

I have always taken Lewis's use of the word in OHEL as a convenient
period term.


--
John W. Kennedy
"Give up vows and dogmas, and fixed things, and you may grow like
That. ...you may come to think a blow bad, because it hurts, and not
because it humiliates. You may come to think murder wrong, because it
is violent, and not because it is unjust."
-- G. K. Chesterton. "The Ball and the Cross"