Welcome to BookBoardz.com!
FAQFAQ      ProfileProfile    Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in

Bombadil a Dwarf?

 
Goto page 1, 2
   Book Forums (Home) -> J.R.R. Tolkien RSS
Next:  COTW: Silmarillion, Chapter X. Of the Sindar  
Author Message
Sid Eles

External


Since: Mar 22, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:21 pm
Post subject: Bombadil a Dwarf?
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)

Ok, the one thing we know for sure about Bombadil is that he was on
Arda before the First Awakening. Therefore he can't be an Elf, Man, or
Hobit. Fine.

But wait! DWARVES were on Arda before the first awakening. Hmm.

Bombadil had a long beard... DWARVES have long beards. Hmm.

Bombadil was short for a man... DWARVES are short for men. Hmm.

Bombadil is often though to be Aule, which of course he is not, but...
Aule created the DWARVES. Hmm.

I'm picturing Aule is there forging his own race of beings, and his
first specimen is Bombadil. Then he sees Bombadil and says, "No no no,
this bright blue jacketed, yellow booted, singing freak isn't what I
want." Then he leaves him there and goes on to create the Seven. And
then Eru comes along and makes Aule freeze up the Seven, but they both
kind of forgot about Bombadil.

Nope, I don't think there's any arguing this one. Smile

Sid

 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
DarthBob88

External


Since: Mar 23, 2006
Posts: 2



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:40 am
Post subject: Re: Bombadil a Dwarf? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Francis A. Miniter wrote:
> Sid Eles wrote:
>
> >Ok, the one thing we know for sure about Bombadil is that he was on
> >Arda before the First Awakening. Therefore he can't be an Elf, Man, or
> >Hobit. Fine.
> >
> >But wait! DWARVES were on Arda before the first awakening. Hmm.
> >
> >Bombadil had a long beard... DWARVES have long beards. Hmm.
> >
> >Bombadil was short for a man... DWARVES are short for men. Hmm.
> >
> >Bombadil is often though to be Aule, which of course he is not, but...
> >Aule created the DWARVES. Hmm.
What you argue here is "duck typing". If it walks like a duck, looks
like a duck, quacks like a duck, we must consider the possibility that
we have a member of the family Anatidae on our hands. Problem is, it
might be a cormorant or summat.
<snip>
> >Nope, I don't think there's any arguing this one. Smile
> >
> >Sid
> >
> >
> >
>
> Hi Sid,
>
> I do not have the text in front of me, but I recall in the FOTR Gandalf
> comments that Tom Bombadil is older than the hills (?) and is one of a
> kind, that the ring can have no effect on him. None of that sounds
> like he is a dwarf, especially his immunity to the forces of the ring.
>
IIRC, the dwarves were fairly resistant to El Ring, were they not? A
tough, thrawn race that would have no master. They eventually
succumbed, but they held out longer than the Men did. Personally, I
think Tommy boy's a Maia, or Eru in disguise. No good evidence for my
belief, just a gut feeling.
> Francis A. Miniter

 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
miniter1

External


Since: May 15, 2004
Posts: 71



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Bombadil a Dwarf? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Sid Eles wrote:

>Ok, the one thing we know for sure about Bombadil is that he was on
>Arda before the First Awakening. Therefore he can't be an Elf, Man, or
>Hobit. Fine.
>
>But wait! DWARVES were on Arda before the first awakening. Hmm.
>
>Bombadil had a long beard... DWARVES have long beards. Hmm.
>
>Bombadil was short for a man... DWARVES are short for men. Hmm.
>
>Bombadil is often though to be Aule, which of course he is not, but...
>Aule created the DWARVES. Hmm.
>
>I'm picturing Aule is there forging his own race of beings, and his
>first specimen is Bombadil. Then he sees Bombadil and says, "No no no,
>this bright blue jacketed, yellow booted, singing freak isn't what I
>want." Then he leaves him there and goes on to create the Seven. And
>then Eru comes along and makes Aule freeze up the Seven, but they both
>kind of forgot about Bombadil.
>
>Nope, I don't think there's any arguing this one. Smile
>
>Sid
>
>
>

Hi Sid,

I do not have the text in front of me, but I recall in the FOTR Gandalf
comments that Tom Bombadil is older than the hills (?) and is one of a
kind, that the ring can have no effect on him. None of that sounds
like he is a dwarf, especially his immunity to the forces of the ring.


Francis A. Miniter
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
nfw

External


Since: Mar 13, 2006
Posts: 3



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Bombadil a Dwarf? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

DarthBob88 a écrit :
> Personally, I
> think Tommy boy's a Maia, or Eru in disguise. No good evidence for my
> belief, just a gut feeling.

I think Bombadil is beyond Tolkien. It was created with no relation to
ME, as a story for Tolkien's children's doll, and then it somehow found
its way into the LOTR, while it was still a second Hobbit. When at last
the story appeared to involve greater issues, Tolkien still had the
feeling he had to stay in the story, though he knew nothing of him
except that he was one of a kind. I like to think of it as a a way Eru
found to enter Arda without being noticed even by it's sub-creator, who
of course rejected that idea.

Ask not for any evidence, of course! Wink

--
nfw
> Wasn't Ungoliant committed to creating a world-wide web?
sounds like the sort of evil thing she'd do. she was probably the
first spammer, too. -- Count Menelvagor in RABT--
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
ten1

External


Since: Jan 06, 2005
Posts: 61



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Bombadil a Dwarf? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

>
> Has anyone tried to argue that Bombadil is an eagle?

At Elronds council it was suggested that the ring be given to an eagle
to drop off in the volcano but the reason that wasnt adopted was
because the eagle might be intercepted NOT because the ring would
affect the eagle. So Bombadil could be an eagle

just another tern on the discussion to erne some points.
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
stevehim

External


Since: Feb 12, 2006
Posts: 7



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Bombadil a Dwarf? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

DarthBob88 wrote:
> Francis A. Miniter wrote:
> > Sid Eles wrote:

<snip>

> IIRC, the dwarves were fairly resistant to El Ring, were they not? A
> tough, thrawn race that would have no master. They eventually
> succumbed, but they held out longer than the Men did. Personally, I
> think Tommy boy's a Maia, or Eru in disguise. No good evidence for my
> belief, just a gut feeling.
> > Francis A. Miniter

I agree, though I have never been able to think of him as Eru in
disguise. While it /can/ be explained (since Eru has unlimited power),
I'd have to wonder who Goldberry was, if Tom was Eru. The only think I
can think of Eru 'loving' so much would be his creation (and even
that's stretching it a bit), which would make Goldberry the Universe
(or possibly the Music), in a sense. I've always seen him as an
outside being (excpet the first time I read LOTR and came to that
chapter, at which point I thought he was a spy for Sauron....until I
got to the next chapter), or an Ainur (as they often come in pairs).
But, as you say, no real evidence either way.
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Steve Morrison

External


Since: May 12, 2005
Posts: 5



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:22 pm
Post subject: Re: who is Goldberry ? (was: Bombadil a Dwarf? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Chris Hoelscher wrote:

> which brings me to another point - why the Nine had an aversion to water - i
> think i even read here or elsewhere that Tolkien could not explain it - but
> again it seems to me that Ulmo's presence in the waters of Middle-Earth
> *left a bad taste* in their mouths ..

It might have been related somehow to the fact that the "Morgoth-
element" was not very strong in water - "Water is represented as
being almost entirely free of Morgoth" [MTii]. I've always wondered,
though, whether _that_ was due to Ulmo in some way.

What you are probably remembering is CJRT's note to "The Hunt for
the Ring" where he wrote:

My father nowhere explained the Ringwraith's fear of water. [...]
But it is not made clear how they crossed other rivers that lay in
their path, such as the Greyflood, where there was only 'a dangerous
ford formed by the ruins of the bridge' (p.264). My father did
indeed note that the idea was difficult to sustain.
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
nopspam1

External


Since: Jan 19, 2005
Posts: 20



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Bombadil a Dwarf? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"stevehim@yahoo.com" <stevehim.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1143235323.537937.269920@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

> I agree, though I have never been able to think of him as Eru in
> disguise. While it /can/ be explained (since Eru has unlimited power),
> I'd have to wonder who Goldberry was, if Tom was Eru. The only think I
> can think of Eru 'loving' so much would be his creation (and even
> that's stretching it a bit), which would make Goldberry the Universe
> (or possibly the Music), in a sense.

[snip]

I also find it hard to think of Bombadil as Eru. But if he were, why
couldn't Goldberry just be Eru's lover/girlfriend?

--
Mästerkatten
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
omeallymd

External


Since: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 323



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: Bombadil a Dwarf? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

tenworld wrote:
>> Has anyone tried to argue that Bombadil is an eagle?
>
> At Elronds council it was suggested that the ring be given to an eagle
> to drop off in the volcano

Which edition do you have?
--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
spamgard

External


Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 2048



(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:08 am
Post subject: Re: Bombadil a Dwarf? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Bill O'Meally <OMeallyMD.TakeThisOut@wise.rr.com> wrote:
> tenworld wrote:
>>> Has anyone tried to argue that Bombadil is an eagle?
>>
>> At Elronds council it was suggested that the ring be given to an
>> eagle to drop off in the volcano
>
> Which edition do you have?

This seems to be a reference to the uncensored edition...
Some of the stuff that was removed was more interesting than this.
I'm sure others can't wait to quote from _their_ uncensored editions.
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Chris Hoelscher

External


Since: Aug 13, 2003
Posts: 10



(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:17 am
Post subject: who is Goldberry ? (was: Bombadil a Dwarf? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

> I'd have to wonder who Goldberry was, if Tom was Eru.

without addressing who Tom is (but we know that Tom WAS who from 1974 - 1981
(grin)) since Tom refers to Goldberry as "gaughter of the River", I always
took that to mean she is a Valar or Maiar - daughter of Ulmo

which brings me to another point - why the Nine had an aversion to water - i
think i even read here or elsewhere that Tolkien could not explain it - but
again it seems to me that Ulmo's presence in the waters of Middle-Earth
*left a bad taste* in their mouths ..


chris hoelscher
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
omeallymd

External


Since: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 323



(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:19 am
Post subject: Re: Bombadil a Dwarf? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
> Bill O'Meally <OMeallyMD.RemoveThis@wise.rr.com> wrote:
>> tenworld wrote:
>>>> Has anyone tried to argue that Bombadil is an eagle?
>>>
>>> At Elronds council it was suggested that the ring be given to an
>>> eagle to drop off in the volcano
>>
>> Which edition do you have?
>
> This seems to be a reference to the uncensored edition...

Damn those Eagle censors!!!

--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
nowhere6

External


Since: Jan 12, 2005
Posts: 103



(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:12 am
Post subject: Re: who is Goldberry ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Chris Hoelscher wrote:

>>I'd have to wonder who Goldberry was, if Tom was Eru.
>
>
> without addressing who Tom is (but we know that Tom WAS who from 1974 - 1981
> (grin)) since Tom refers to Goldberry as "gaughter of the River", I always
> took that to mean she is a Valar or Maiar - daughter of Ulmo

That makes sense. If Mellian can be Thingol's squeeze, why not Goldberry
be Bombadil's squeeze.

Bob Kolker
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Joy

External


Since: Mar 25, 2006
Posts: 1



(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: who is Goldberry ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Robert Kolker wrote:
> Chris Hoelscher wrote:
>
> >>I'd have to wonder who Goldberry was, if Tom was Eru.
> >
> >
> > without addressing who Tom is (but we know that Tom WAS who from 1974 - 1981
> > (grin)) since Tom refers to Goldberry as "gaughter of the River", I always
> > took that to mean she is a Valar or Maiar - daughter of Ulmo
>
> That makes sense. If Mellian can be Thingol's squeeze, why not Goldberry
> be Bombadil's squeeze.
>
> Bob Kolker

No, it would be the other way around since Melian is the Maair and
Thingol the elf. So, Thingol is Melian's squeeze. ;D
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Chris Hoelscher

External


Since: Aug 13, 2003
Posts: 10



(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:24 am
Post subject: Re: who is Goldberry ? (was: Bombadil a Dwarf? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

>
> What you are probably remembering is CJRT's note to "The Hunt for
> the Ring" where he wrote:
>
> My father nowhere explained the Ringwraith's fear of water. [...]
> But it is not made clear how they crossed other rivers that lay in
> their path, such as the Greyflood, where there was only 'a dangerous
> ford formed by the ruins of the bridge' (p.264). My father did
> indeed note that the idea was difficult to sustain.
>

thank you - that is indeed the passage to which I was alluding!!!

chris hoelscher
 >> Stay informed about: Bombadil a Dwarf? 
Back to top
Login to vote
Display posts from previous:   
Related Topics:
Tom Bombadil thought - While Manwe and Yavanna discuss the protection of the trees, Manwe has a dream or vision: "Then it seemed to Manwe that the Song rose once more about him, and he heeded now many things therein he had not heeded before. And at last the vision was re...

Tom Bombadil in TTT Extended DVD!!! - Well, not really, but Old Man Willow is there to grab Merry and Pippin (in Fangorn!) and Tom's words of command to OMW are recited - by Treebeard. Still, it's the next best thing to old Tom actually being there, no? -- FotW Reality is for those who..

Dwarf subsistence - Well, it's rather quiet round here: is it the time of year, or have things been like this for a while? I thought I'd provide a topic for discussion... The following passage suddenly started to bother me the other night: "There is even a chance t...

Is Gimli a girl dwarf? - Is it possible that Gimli really is a girl dwarf? I mean, female dwarves look similar to male dwarves, so Gimli could be a girl and he and Legolas could marry and have children.

Chapter o/t Week LotR Bk1 Ch.7: "In the House of Tom Bomba.. - Information about previous chapter discussions you will find at http://parasha.maoltuile.org/ . Take the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to volunteer for a chapter yourself! Of Book I Chapter 9 "At the Sign of the Prancing Pony" (due in 2 weeks...
   Book Forums (Home) -> J.R.R. Tolkien All times are: Pacific Time (US & Canada) (change)
Goto page 1, 2
Page 1 of 2

 
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



[ Contact us | Terms of Service/Privacy Policy ]