Bookplate or "flatsigned"?

"Art Layton" wrote...
 > I saw this statement in an eBay listing. Does anyone (besides me)think
 > this is incorrect?
 >
 > SIGNED by President Nixon on the beautifully colored Library and
 > Birthplace Bookplate. A Bookplate is the best guarantee that the
 > signature is authentic.

Signed on a bookplate just makes it more likely that the signature is an
AutoPen.

One would think that the *best* guarantee would be having the item signed in
one's presence.

--
Jon Meyers
[To reply,
lose your way.]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Bookplate or "flatsigned"? 

On 10 Jul 2003 11:26:35 -0700, shebadog.TakeThisOut@optonline.net (Art Layton)
declared:

 >I saw this statement in an eBay listing. Does anyone (besides me)think
 >this is incorrect?
 >
 >SIGNED by President Nixon on the beautifully colored Library and
 >Birthplace Bookplate. A Bookplate is the best guarantee that the
 >signature is authentic.
 >

a tad optimistic. so does this mean the other book that the
seller has up, which is signed in the book, isn't "authentic"? lol




robert

"there must be one night in your life that you will remember forever.
The must be one night for everyone. And if you know that the night
is coming on and that this night will be that particular night, then
take it and don't question it and don't talk about it to anyone ever
after that. For if you let it pass it might not come again. Many have
let it pass, many have seen it go by and have never seen another like it,
when all the circumstances of weather, light, moon and time, of night hill
and warm grass and train and town and distance were balanced upon the
trembling of a finger."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Bookplate or "flatsigned"? 

"Jon Meyers" <cathnjonYOUR DeleteThis @WAYgtw.net> wrote in message
news:3f0e0112@bothawui.gtw.net...

 > Signed on a bookplate just makes it more likely that the signature is an
 > AutoPen.
 >
 > One would think that the *best* guarantee would be having the item signed
in
 > one's presence.



I believe it was this past season on the ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, they had a
collector with a large and impressive autograph collection, and with almost
every autography in her albums she had a photograph of herself taken with
the signer. Now there's some verification.


William M. Klimon
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.gateofbliss.com" target="_blank">http://www.gateofbliss.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Bookplate or "flatsigned"? 

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:03:41 -0400, "William M. Klimon"
<william.m.klimon.c87 DeleteThis @alumni.upenn.edu> wrote:

 >"Jon Meyers" <cathnjonYOUR DeleteThis @WAYgtw.net> wrote in message
 >news:3f0e0112@bothawui.gtw.net...
 >
  >> Signed on a bookplate just makes it more likely that the signature is an
  >> AutoPen.
  >>
  >> One would think that the *best* guarantee would be having the item signed
 >in
  >> one's presence.
 >
 >
 >
 >I believe it was this past season on the ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, they had a
 >collector with a large and impressive autograph collection, and with almost
 >every autography in her albums she had a photograph of herself taken with
 >the signer. Now there's some verification.
 >
 >
 >William M. Klimon
 >http://www.gateofbliss.com


For unique items... One of the more notorious forgers in sports
memoribilia used this trick. 1. Pay athlete to sign X amount of items.
2. Have photograph taken with athlete signing items. 3. When athlete
leaves copy signature on a whole bunch more items.

I suspect that at least one bookseller (well known to all here)
engages in this particular practice.

Cheers,

John
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Bookplate or "flatsigned"? 

John Pelan <jpelan.TakeThisOut@cnw.com> wrote in message news:<ambtgvgc1htgq77nc1648ou9cikiclp4i6.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>...
 > On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:03:41 -0400, "William M. Klimon"
 > <william.m.klimon.c87.TakeThisOut@alumni.upenn.edu> wrote:
 >
  > >"Jon Meyers" <cathnjonYOUR.TakeThisOut@WAYgtw.net> wrote in message
  > >news:3f0e0112@bothawui.gtw.net...
  > >
   > >> Signed on a bookplate just makes it more likely that the signature is an
   > >> AutoPen.
   > >>
   > >> One would think that the *best* guarantee would be having the item signed
 > in
   > >> one's presence.
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >I believe it was this past season on the ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, they had a
  > >collector with a large and impressive autograph collection, and with almost
  > >every autography in her albums she had a photograph of herself taken with
  > >the signer. Now there's some verification.
  > >
  > >
  > >William M. Klimon
  > >http://www.gateofbliss.com
 >
 >
 > For unique items... One of the more notorious forgers in sports
 > memoribilia used this trick. 1. Pay athlete to sign X amount of items.
 > 2. Have photograph taken with athlete signing items. 3. When athlete
 > leaves copy signature on a whole bunch more items.
 >
 > I suspect that at least one bookseller (well known to all here)
 > engages in this particular practice.
 >
 > Cheers,
 >
 > John
  > >
  > >
I have always thought that a signed limited edition was a pretty
good bet. Seems like to forge the signature one would also have to
forge the book too. At least that was the argument I made to a sports
collectible dealer when I could get a pretty good deal on a Babe Ruth
book some years ago which was a signed, limited edition. The dealer
wouldn't buy it because there were so many forgeries even back then,
probably over fifteen years ago. And since I collect modern firsts,
Frost, Fitzgerald and Lawrence as well as the Modern Movement, I can
personally attest that there are many more forgeries of Hemingway
books on eBay that authentic. Isn't it interesting how there seems to
be a sudden proliferation of signed Hemingway books these days?

Rick Kalamaya<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Bookplate or "flatsigned"? 

On 11 Jul 2003 15:28:35 -0700, irish DeleteThis @idcomm.com (Rick Kalamaya) wrote:

 >John Pelan <jpelan DeleteThis @cnw.com> wrote in message news:<ambtgvgc1htgq77nc1648ou9cikiclp4i6 DeleteThis @4ax.com>...
  >> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:03:41 -0400, "William M. Klimon"
  >> <william.m.klimon.c87 DeleteThis @alumni.upenn.edu> wrote:
  >>
   >> >"Jon Meyers" <cathnjonYOUR DeleteThis @WAYgtw.net> wrote in message
   >> >news:3f0e0112@bothawui.gtw.net...
   >> >
   >> >> Signed on a bookplate just makes it more likely that the signature is an
   >> >> AutoPen.
   >> >>
   >> >> One would think that the *best* guarantee would be having the item signed
  >> in
   >> >> one's presence.
   >> >
   >> >
   >> >
   >> >I believe it was this past season on the ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, they had a
   >> >collector with a large and impressive autograph collection, and with almost
   >> >every autography in her albums she had a photograph of herself taken with
   >> >the signer. Now there's some verification.
   >> >
   >> >
   >> >William M. Klimon
   >> >http://www.gateofbliss.com
  >>
  >>
  >> For unique items... One of the more notorious forgers in sports
  >> memoribilia used this trick. 1. Pay athlete to sign X amount of items.
  >> 2. Have photograph taken with athlete signing items. 3. When athlete
  >> leaves copy signature on a whole bunch more items.
  >>
  >> I suspect that at least one bookseller (well known to all here)
  >> engages in this particular practice.
  >>
  >> Cheers,
  >>
  >> John
   >> >
   >> >
 > I have always thought that a signed limited edition was a pretty
 >good bet. Seems like to forge the signature one would also have to
 >forge the book too.

Exactly right... Though I'm very proud of my huge collection of signed
books (even, nay, especially the paperbacks). When I was starting out
all I could afford were paperbacks, but I targeted the first edition
whenever possible and in many cases in the genre I collect, the
paperback was the only edition. I think I have something like 3,000...

 > At least that was the argument I made to a sports
 >collectible dealer when I could get a pretty good deal on a Babe Ruth
 >book some years ago which was a signed, limited edition.

Ruth signatures are far more common than is often believed (or admited
to) by dealers. He was a tremendously gregarious man and cheerfully
signed anything put in front of him. The more reserved and private
Gehrig is a much more difficult signature. (Reminds me, now I have to
chase down Raffy for 500-HR Club) and I still can't afford Ruth and
can't seem to find a decent Ott... *sighs*

 >The dealer wouldn't buy it because there were so many forgeries even back then,
 >probably over fifteen years ago. And since I collect modern firsts,
 >Frost, Fitzgerald and Lawrence as well as the Modern Movement, I can
 >personally attest that there are many more forgeries of Hemingway
 >books on eBay that authentic. Isn't it interesting how there seems to
 >be a sudden proliferation of signed Hemingway books these days?

Simple, easy targets... Ruth - baseball, Hemingway - modern firsts,
Philip K. Dick - SF.

There's a few boooks I own that I would have trouble tracing the
provenance of, but who the hell is going to forge H.A. Manhood, Mrs.
Belloc-Lowndes, or Neil Bell?


Cheers,

John<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Bookplate or "flatsigned"? 

John Pelan <jpelan.TakeThisOut@cnw.com> wrote in message news:<1cnugvgb5bvrcuvfhhpotntb7r0a81536p.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>...
 > On 11 Jul 2003 15:28:35 -0700, irish.TakeThisOut@idcomm.com (Rick Kalamaya) wrote:
 >
  > >John Pelan <jpelan.TakeThisOut@cnw.com> wrote in message news:<ambtgvgc1htgq77nc1648ou9cikiclp4i6.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>...
   > >> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:03:41 -0400, "William M. Klimon"
   > >> <william.m.klimon.c87.TakeThisOut@alumni.upenn.edu> wrote:
   > >>
   > >> >"Jon Meyers" <cathnjonYOUR.TakeThisOut@WAYgtw.net> wrote in message
   > >> >news:3f0e0112@bothawui.gtw.net...
   > >> >
   > >> >> Signed on a bookplate just makes it more likely that the signature is an
   > >> >> AutoPen.
   > >> >>
   > >> >> One would think that the *best* guarantee would be having the item signed
 > in
   > >> >> one's presence.
   > >> >
   > >> >
   > >> >
   > >> >I believe it was this past season on the ANTIQUES ROADSHOW, they had a
   > >> >collector with a large and impressive autograph collection, and with almost
   > >> >every autography in her albums she had a photograph of herself taken with
   > >> >the signer. Now there's some verification.
   > >> >
   > >> >
   > >> >William M. Klimon
   > >> >http://www.gateofbliss.com
   > >>
   > >>
   > >> For unique items... One of the more notorious forgers in sports
   > >> memoribilia used this trick. 1. Pay athlete to sign X amount of items.
   > >> 2. Have photograph taken with athlete signing items. 3. When athlete
   > >> leaves copy signature on a whole bunch more items.
   > >>
   > >> I suspect that at least one bookseller (well known to all here)
   > >> engages in this particular practice.
   > >>
   > >> Cheers,
   > >>
   > >> John
   > >> >
   > >> >
  > > I have always thought that a signed limited edition was a pretty
  > >good bet. Seems like to forge the signature one would also have to
  > >forge the book too.
 >
 > Exactly right... Though I'm very proud of my huge collection of signed
 > books (even, nay, especially the paperbacks). When I was starting out
 > all I could afford were paperbacks, but I targeted the first edition
 > whenever possible and in many cases in the genre I collect, the
 > paperback was the only edition. I think I have something like 3,000...
 >
  > > At least that was the argument I made to a sports
  > >collectible dealer when I could get a pretty good deal on a Babe Ruth
  > >book some years ago which was a signed, limited edition.
 >
 > Ruth signatures are far more common than is often believed (or admited
 > to) by dealers. He was a tremendously gregarious man and cheerfully
 > signed anything put in front of him. The more reserved and private
 > Gehrig is a much more difficult signature. (Reminds me, now I have to
 > chase down Raffy for 500-HR Club) and I still can't afford Ruth and
 > can't seem to find a decent Ott... *sighs*
 >
  > >The dealer wouldn't buy it because there were so many forgeries even back then,
  > >probably over fifteen years ago. And since I collect modern firsts,
  > >Frost, Fitzgerald and Lawrence as well as the Modern Movement, I can
  > >personally attest that there are many more forgeries of Hemingway
  > >books on eBay that authentic. Isn't it interesting how there seems to
  > >be a sudden proliferation of signed Hemingway books these days?
 >
 > Simple, easy targets... Ruth - baseball, Hemingway - modern firsts,
 > Philip K. Dick - SF.
 >
 > There's a few boooks I own that I would have trouble tracing the
 > provenance of, but who the hell is going to forge H.A. Manhood, Mrs.
 > Belloc-Lowndes, or Neil Bell?
 >
 >
 > Cheers,
 >
 > John


Why, yes. Besides who would want the signature of such an odious
person as Hemingway whose literary reputation is fading slightly
anyway. All the ballplayers I have, Mantle, Musial, Gibson, Brock,
and etc. were all gathered in person so I know they are authentic.
And my Ted Williams signatures (2) are in a book and certainly look
authentic, being purchased at a bookstore in Boulder with a decent
reputation.

What you say about Ruth is true but his signature is still pricey
especially on a ball. Stan the Man (my hero) also signs nearly every
time he is asked. But while we are talking baseball signatures, how
would you like to have an authentic Shoeless Joe?

Rick Kalamaya<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Bookplate or "flatsigned"? 

"Rick Kalamaya" wrote...
> John Pelan wrote...
> > Do I detect a Cardinal bias in your collecting?
>
> Yes, I have followed the Cardinals since I was very small. Sort of
> like the characters in John Grisham's "Painted House." Grisham now
> lives in Charlottesville and his son, named after the baseball great
> Ty Cobb, plays for the UVA baseball team that my son played for a few
> years ago. And being from Mississippi Grisham is a big Cardinal fan.
> I wonder if Faulkner was a Cardinal fan? He was at UVA at the end of
> his life also.
>
> I have a baseball signed by all the living Cardinal HOFers now that
> Enos Slaughter has died: Musial, Brock, Gibson and Schoendinst....

Please don't kill the messenger, but...the very-much-alive Ozzie Smith is
now in the Hall.


--
Jon Meyers
[To reply,
lose your way.]
 >> Stay informed about: Bookplate or "flatsigned"? 

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 >> Stay informed about: Bookplate or "flatsigned"?