Books on demand - Reprints of old books?

on Mon, 11 Jul 2005 09:45:46 -0500, John A. Stovall stated:
>
>On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:41:06 -0700, "Billy Bob"
><billybobnospam RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>I sometimes see "Book-on-Demand reprint" for old books I am looking for.
>>This is good because I can read some old books without having to pay
>>thousands of dollars for the book.
>>
>>I'm wondering if there are reprints available for some of the older books I
>>am looking for, but I just need to find the "Book-on-Demand" place and
>>"demand" my book???
>>
>>Is there one single web site where I can order reprints of old books?
>>
>>Can you request that they add a new (old) book to their reprint list or
>>something?
>>
>
>Have you looked at Project Gutenberg? Better than POD books in price,
>Free.
>
>http://www.gutenberg.org/

Project Gutenberg is the coolest thing. I highly recommend
that anyone interested in old books volunteer a little bit of
time now and then scanning pages or proofing pages or whatever.

They don't have much of anything in my field, yet (old herbal/
medical books) so as soon as I get the time, there'll be a lot
I can do.

What, exactly, are print-on-demand books? Are they page-by-page
photocopies? Or printouts of scanned pages? (and does that
actually qualify as a 'book'?) I always skip over those listings
with a mild bit of annoyance that they're cluttering my search.
They won't have that wonderful old-book esthetic that I love so
much, and they aren't cheap, by any means. Though they'd be a
deal, I suppose, if I needed the information in an otherwise $1k+
priced book.


-Allison
 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books? 

> What, exactly, are print-on-demand books? Are they page-by-page
> photocopies? Or printouts of scanned pages? (and does that
> actually qualify as a 'book'?) I always skip over those listings
> with a mild bit of annoyance that they're cluttering my search.
> They won't have that wonderful old-book esthetic that I love so
> much, and they aren't cheap, by any means. Though they'd be a
> deal, I suppose, if I needed the information in an otherwise $1k+
> priced book.

They are a good resource for those who just need the material. For
example, there is an early work by Paul Foster Case that isn't
available on the Internet, even though it is out of copyright.
Recently, a collector tried to sell a copy for $700. A print on
demand company offers the work for ten dollars. If you are writing
in that field and need the work for reference, a print on demand
copy would fulfill your requirements, since it would preserve the
pagination and the formating of the text, as well as any
illustrations.
 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books? 

On 11 Jul 2005 09:30:51 -0700, Allison Turner- <betonica RemoveThis @sover.net>
wrote:


>What, exactly, are print-on-demand books? Are they page-by-page
>photocopies? Or printouts of scanned pages? (and does that
>actually qualify as a 'book'?) I always skip over those listings
>with a mild bit of annoyance that they're cluttering my search.
>They won't have that wonderful old-book esthetic that I love so
>much, and they aren't cheap, by any means. Though they'd be a
>deal, I suppose, if I needed the information in an otherwise $1k+
>priced book.
>
>

I will take a guess on what a POD book is...

Suppose you have a book and a photocopier. You open the book, place
the page against the glass, press the PRINT button, and out comes a
page. Repeat for each page in the book. That is simple enough, but
really wasteful!

Instead, go to that same amount of effort but press the SAVE button,
and instead of that photocopy image being transferred onto another
piece of paper, it is saved into a digital file.

Now if you want to make money with that digital file, you can go to a
similar copier, insert that file on a CD, press the PRINT button, WALK
AWAY, and out comes the entire book. If you get another order, do the
same, again and again.

There is another way to make money -- you compile a bunch of scanned
books on CDs and sell the CDs.

As a buyer of a CD, or the owner of the file, once you get an order
for a POD book, you probably don't even need your own copier, you
probably take the CD, or even EMAIL the file, to someone like Kinkos,
and they press the PRINT button, walk away, and for a few cents more,
bind the large pile of paper, box it, and have it ready for you to
pick up, or they deliver it to you, or perhaps they even FedEx the
book to your customer (they are owned by FedEx).

(I don't know if FedEx has anything like COD, but if so, the process
is even easier. Or maybe your customer gives you his FedEx account and
FedEx charges the customer directly.)

At $100+ for POD books, even when there are beautiful first editions
available for far less money, selling POD books this way can be a very
high-margin, profitable business.

Who cares if you don't sell many -- you don't have any inventory to
worry about, you don't need any special equipment, and perhaps you
don't even need any employees to copy, box, and ship the order.

And BTW, I suppose you don't even have to own the original book. You
borrow a copy from your city or university library (using interlibrary
loan). I wonder if Kinkos will even make the digital file for you?

(I'm not in the POD business, so all of the above is pure speculation.
No doubt I have some of the details wrong, or perhaps the process and
the technology is even more advanced than I think.)

Anyway, the short answer to your question is that POD books really are
just photocopies.

DKM


To contact me directly, send EMAIL to (single letters all)
DEE_KAY_EMM AT EarthLink.net. [For example X_X_X RemoveThis @EarthLink.net.]
 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books? 

Does anybody know if these 'books' are usually scanned copied from disbound
(i.e., flat) originals, or if they have the distortions and shadows inherent
in a scan or photocopy of a thick book where the areas near the binding are
much farther from the glass? I've considered buying one from time to time,
but would not be interested in the latter.

Thanks,
Chris
 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books? 

> Does anybody know if these 'books' are usually scanned copied from disbound
> (i.e., flat) originals, or if they have the distortions and shadows inherent
> in a scan or photocopy of a thick book where the areas near the binding are
> much farther from the glass? I've considered buying one from time to time,
> but would not be interested in the latter.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris

Just a guess, but I think it would depend on the book. Nobody is
going to cut up a book that's worth hundreds of dollars to
photocopy it perfectly flat. The photocopy facsimile reprints of
rare books that I own (not print on demand, but the nearest thing)
often show curves in the lines of text near the spine. If all you
want is the text (and what good is print on demand, otherwise?)
then slightly distorted lines of text are unimportant.
 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books? 

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 05:34:04 GMT, Al Smith <invalid.DeleteThis@address.com>
wrote:
>
>Just a guess, but I think it would depend on the book. Nobody is
>going to cut up a book that's worth hundreds of dollars to
>photocopy it perfectly flat. The photocopy facsimile reprints of
>rare books that I own (not print on demand, but the nearest thing)
>often show curves in the lines of text near the spine. If all you
>want is the text (and what good is print on demand, otherwise?)
>then slightly distorted lines of text are unimportant.


Depending on who is making the first digital copy of a book, it might
indeed be worth cutting up a book. A small businessman might not, but
after I wrote my earlier posting, I thought some more about this
business (real or potential).

I can easily imagine a hypothetical example: The University of
California taking one of their scarce books and disassembling it,
making a digital copy, and then printing a POD copy for all of the
other UC libraries or selling the POD copies in the campus bookstore.
It would be relatively easy to rebind the book; after all, it might
already be a library copy and the new binding might be superior to the
original.

What would prevent a large library system from going further and
selling the POD copies to libraries all over the US or even globally?

I have listed several books for sale that are priced at a fraction of
the POD price. Someone who is making money with digital copies could
easily afford to buy my copy and dis-bind (unbind?) it and then
discard it. After all, the first POD sale would pay for the purchase
of the original copy.

I'll admit that I haven't paid too close attention, but I would expect
that most POD books don't have any copyright problems -- the books are
already in the public domain. Or perhaps it is relatively easy to buy
the republishing rights for a book that has been long out of print
(the POD publisher might just have to pay a royalty for each copy and
not have a significant up-front cost).

Perhaps before long, the digital copies of books will be swapped
Napster-like all over the world. Everyone could have a POD copy of
Galileo, or Newton, or the Gutenburg bible?

DKM

To contact me directly, send EMAIL to (single letters all)
DEE_KAY_EMM AT EarthLink.net. [For example X_X_X.DeleteThis@EarthLink.net.]
 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books? 

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 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books? 

on Tue, 12 Jul 2005 07:52:46 -0500, John A. Stovall stated:
>
>On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 01:52:12 GMT, Doug McClure
><Dee_Kay_Emm RemoveThis @EarthLink.net> wrote:
>
>>On 11 Jul 2005 09:30:51 -0700, Allison Turner- <betonica RemoveThis @sover.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What, exactly, are print-on-demand books? Are they page-by-page
>>>photocopies? Or printouts of scanned pages? (and does that
>>>actually qualify as a 'book'?) I always skip over those listings
>>>with a mild bit of annoyance that they're cluttering my search.
>>>They won't have that wonderful old-book esthetic that I love so
>>>much, and they aren't cheap, by any means. Though they'd be a
>>>deal, I suppose, if I needed the information in an otherwise $1k+
>>>priced book.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I will take a guess on what a POD book is...
>>
>>Suppose you have a book and a photocopier. You open the book, place
>>the page against the glass, press the PRINT button, and out comes a
>>page. Repeat for each page in the book. That is simple enough, but
>>really wasteful!
>>
>
>Most of the POD houses use Micro form copies not a copier or scanner.

What is the quality of that media? I'm remembering books on
microfische that I dealt with in the early eighties. *Ugly*.
Anything would be better than that, though if POD isn't pretty
close to the original, I wouldn't go for it.

Well, I wouldn't go for a POD regardless of quality, if there
was any reasonable way for me to get a real copy of the book.

-Allison
 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books? 

Has anyone heard anything about Amazon's plans to integrate POD
technology into their searches? I talked with a friend in the
publishing business about this, and the possibilities are scary. If
someone just wants a reading copy, they order it from Amazon. Amazon
prints up a copy and ships. If the particular book isn't in Amazon's
database (onsite inventory of POD books), they just order a real copy
from one of the dealer's listing with them , add to the database,
print and ship. Eventually authors could sell publishing rights
directly to Amazon. They could publish, print, and distribute directly
to the buyer. No need for book sellers, or even publishers.
Google's plan to put entire libraries (Yale, Harvard, etc.) online as
e-books is just as scary, at least for anyone who has invested money
in scarce books . While it won't affect the value of first editions,
special editions, etc., the market for scholarly, history and
technical books could plummet.
Am I way off base here?
 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books? 

> Has anyone heard anything about Amazon's plans to integrate POD
> technology into their searches? I talked with a friend in the
> publishing business about this, and the possibilities are scary. If
> someone just wants a reading copy, they order it from Amazon. Amazon
> prints up a copy and ships. If the particular book isn't in Amazon's
> database (onsite inventory of POD books), they just order a real copy
> from one of the dealer's listing with them , add to the database,
> print and ship. Eventually authors could sell publishing rights
> directly to Amazon. They could publish, print, and distribute directly
> to the buyer. No need for book sellers, or even publishers.
> Google's plan to put entire libraries (Yale, Harvard, etc.) online as
> e-books is just as scary, at least for anyone who has invested money
> in scarce books . While it won't affect the value of first editions,
> special editions, etc., the market for scholarly, history and
> technical books could plummet.
> Am I way off base here?

Amazon having its own print on demand service, with a vast library
of rare books, would be a great service for the buyer, and would
probably drive many other small print on demand shops out of
business. But I doubt Amazon will bother since they wouldn't make
enough profit to justify maintaining and upgrading the service.
 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books? 

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 01:52:12 GMT, Doug McClure
<Dee_Kay_Emm.DeleteThis@EarthLink.net> wrote:

>Suppose you have a book and a photocopier.

Actually it usually (by number of titles involved) involves a book, a
scaner, and a _bandsaw_. The spine is sawn off before scanning, which
considerably lowers the cost of scanning.

Don't complain to me, talk to the American universities who are doing
this.


I also use a bandsaw for scanning books, but I used it to saw the edge
of an old HP ScanJet, allowing it to be placed upside into the gutter of
a bound book, scanning it without damaging the spine. Old scanners
(lower resolution) have greater depth of focus and are better at
scanning books than modern scanners.
 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books? 

on Thu, 14 Jul 2005 23:30:57 +0100, Andy Dingley stated:
>
>On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 01:52:12 GMT, Doug McClure
><Dee_Kay_Emm.RemoveThis@EarthLink.net> wrote:
>
>>Suppose you have a book and a photocopier.
>
>Actually it usually (by number of titles involved) involves a book, a
>scaner, and a _bandsaw_. The spine is sawn off before scanning, which
>considerably lowers the cost of scanning.
>
>Don't complain to me, talk to the American universities who are doing
>this.
>
>
>I also use a bandsaw for scanning books, but I used it to saw the edge
>of an old HP ScanJet, allowing it to be placed upside into the gutter of
>a bound book, scanning it without damaging the spine. Old scanners
>(lower resolution) have greater depth of focus and are better at
>scanning books than modern scanners.

I've been wondering for a while whether technology is at the
point where a scanner can be made that is, essentially, a very
thin sheet with fiberoptics (or whatever) in it, connected to
a separate piece that has the software, etc. So that you could
slide the thin sheet in between the pages of a book and scan
both pages without even having to open (much) an old delicate
book. Anyone know if there's anything like this out there?

-Allison
 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books? 

Al Smith wrote:
> > Does anybody know if these 'books' are usually scanned copied from disbound
> > (i.e., flat) originals, or if they have the distortions and shadows inherent
> > in a scan or photocopy of a thick book where the areas near the binding are
> > much farther from the glass? I've considered buying one from time to time,
> > but would not be interested in the latter.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Chris
>
> Just a guess, but I think it would depend on the book. Nobody is
> going to cut up a book that's worth hundreds of dollars to
> photocopy it perfectly flat. The photocopy facsimile reprints of
> rare books that I own (not print on demand, but the nearest thing)
> often show curves in the lines of text near the spine. If all you
> want is the text (and what good is print on demand, otherwise?)
> then slightly distorted lines of text are unimportant.

When I liaised with the British Library about scanning a rare old book,
they said they would take it apart, scan the sheets, and then put the
book back together, trying to use the original cloth where possible. I
would pay for the whole process, but the scans would be there ready to
sell to the next customer who enquired.

CB
 >> Stay informed about: Books on demand - Reprints of old books?