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Since: May 24, 2004 Posts: 42
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:27 pm
Post subject: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) Archived from groups: alt>books>larry-niven (more info?)
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Building Harlequin's Moon
Larry Niven & Brenda Cooper
Tor (June 2005)
Biases:
I stopped being an avid fan of Larry Niven's SF about the time
his fiction lost any playful element. I'd put this about 30 years ago.
Eventually, my disenchantment got to the point where I just stopped
reading his fiction. I have not, for example, read _Achilles Choice_
or _Rainbow Mars_. The few recent works I have read (_Ringworld's
Children_ and _The Burning Tower_) were not to my taste.
Brenda Cooper, I had no knowledge of. As far as I can tell, she
has worked in short lengths before this novel and I am out of touch with
modern short SF.
I don't have high hopes for Big Name/Little Name collaborations.
Review:
Brenda Cooper is a name that I will keep an eye out for when I
shop for books. I've read recent Niven by himself and recent Niven with
Pournelle and neither one was like this book. Cooper must be the critical
factor.
Remember when Niven books were _fun_? When his protagonists,
even the ones trapped in miserable, rigidly hierarchical societies like
_A Gift from Earth_ or _A World Out of Time_ could go do some great
thing? When the sour, miserabilist zeitgeist of the late 20th hadn't
entirely taken over Niven's books? This book is a return to those days.
The initial situation is straightforward:
A starship develops a fault in its propulsion system, a
fault that threatens to kill its passengers before they reach their
destination. Luckily for them, there is a star close enough to
their flight path that they can stop there, although this will
use up most of their antimatter. Unluckily for them, there's a
reason why they were headed for the more distance system. Because
they fear (with good reason) the hazards of unbridled nanotech and
AI, they did not take those technologies with them, preferring less
powerful but more easily controlled technologies. Systems whose
worlds can be tamed with those technologies are rare and the one
they are in is not one of them. This system does not even have a
world as friendly as Mars or Venus: a star grazing gas giant has
cleared out the inner system.
The strategy that they decide on is to temporarily
terraform one of the moons of the gas giant Harlequin, a moon
they call Selene. They will raise children on this moon, an
entire population whose only reason for existing is to provide
an economy large enough to support an antimatter facility to
refuel the starship. Once the ship is fueled, it and the original
crew (1) will leave. The Moon Born will be left behind, to die
when the fragile ecology of Selene collapses in (at best) a few
centuries. Obviously, this is not optimal from the perspective
of the Moon Born. The crew plans to deal with potential unrest
in two ways: they will keep the Moon Born as ignorant as possible,
given what they need to be able to do, and the crew carefully keep
tight control on many technologies, including weapons.
Early in the final phase of the program (2), relations between
the crew and the Moon Born are cordial enough that a select few of
the Moon Born are chosen as potential leaders. Although this plan goes
south fairly soon, one of the students, Rachel, finds herself placed in
a unique position to understand the probable fate of her people and to
struggle to avoid it. Since Selene is so very fragile and since the
crew have all the guns (real or potential), armed struggle is unlikely
to end well for the Moon Born. If Rachel is to succeed, she will have
to find some non-violent way to convince her masters not to abandon
their children to eventual extinction. She will also have to prevent,
to the extent she can, the sort of general uprising that could lead to
a collapse of the human-maintained systems on Selene.
This reminded me a lot of _A Gift from Earth_ except that where
in AGfE land was rare, in this novel it is very fragile as well. A
glorious revolution in this setting is likely to end with all the rebels
choking on rarefied air or killed by a flare, so the problem Rachel faces
is quite a bit more difficult than the one Matthew Keller had to deal with.
As well, the antagonists in AGfE were motivated by mere greed for position
and longevity, whereas the crew in this book believes that they may well
be the last humans alive. Even decent people might commit horrible
acts if they thought the alternative was extinction for the human race.
This book is not with flaws. Some of the phrasing near the
beginning is clumsy and there are a number of what look to me like
outright scientific errors, including one that is vital to the plot
(although it is actually only important that people believe it, not
that it be true). That said, I think the last time I read a book
with Niven's name on it that I enjoyed this much was in the late
1970s. It isn't just that I had very low expectations: I had very
low expectations for _The Burning Tower_ and somehow that book failed to
live up to them. I think this was actually a fun book, one with
(mostly) decent people trying to accomplish (mostly) worthwhile
goals.
James Nicoll
1: Whose lives are extended by two of the applications of nanotech
the crew is willing to use: cold sleep and immortality.
2: The first phase takes 60,000 years and almost no pages, since living
humans are not really involved. Terraforming is slow.
--
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Since: Jan 25, 2004 Posts: 29
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 18 Jan 2005 14:27:08 -0500, jdnicoll RemoveThis @panix.com (James Nicoll)
wrote:
<snip>
> This reminded me a lot of _A Gift from Earth_ except that where
>in AGfE land was rare, in this novel it is very fragile as well. A
>glorious revolution in this setting is likely to end with all the rebels
>choking on rarefied air or killed by a flare, so the problem Rachel faces
>is quite a bit more difficult than the one Matthew Keller had to deal with.
>As well, the antagonists in AGfE were motivated by mere greed for position
>and longevity, whereas the crew in this book believes that they may well
>be the last humans alive. Even decent people might commit horrible
>acts if they thought the alternative was extinction for the human race.
<snip>
Sounds promising. Thanks for posting.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) |
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Since: Mar 01, 2004 Posts: 44
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 1/18/2005 2:27 PM James Nicoll cranked up the brainbox and said:
> Building Harlequin's Moon
> Larry Niven & Brenda Cooper
> Tor (June 2005)
I must ask, while I'm enormously thankful for your preview to us, does anyone in
your chain of command mind you doing this? I'm just surprised, is all. Thanks
for the preview, it sounds like a great book.
> Brenda Cooper is a name that I will keep an eye out for when I
> shop for books. I've read recent Niven by himself and recent Niven with
> Pournelle and neither one was like this book. Cooper must be the critical
> factor.
She's good. "Ice and Mirrors" is a good story she worked up with Niven for
Asimov. I still have that issue. If you can't find a copy of the short story,
I'd be willing to scan it in for you to view privately.
> This book is not with flaws.
Those are my favorite kind.
> That said, I think the last time I read a book
> with Niven's name on it that I enjoyed this much was in the late
> 1970s. It isn't just that I had very low expectations: I had very
> low expectations for _The Burning Tower_ and somehow that book failed to
> live up to them.
Now, see, I somewhat agree. But I don't associate it with a time period as much
as I associate it with the type of story being told. This could be due to the
fact I was introduced to him as an author around 1992 or so, and thus had a lot
of back material to read through. "Ringworld Throne", while a Known Space novel,
wasn't really about the characters of Known space, but more about the
inhabitants of the Ringworld, and thus was almost from a different fictional
universe.
I'm not a fan of fantasy, and thus have never touched the "Burning Whatever"
novels. I know I won't like them. I read "Achilles' Choice" recently, and as a
book, it's decent, I don't regret spending time on it, but it's hardly a Niven
novel. I didn't really like "Fallen Angels" either. I liked "Oath of Fealty",
but I think that's probably a fluke. I've found I dislike Steven Barnes'
writing, and so I dislike the collaborations they've done, save "The Locusts".
The two Mote collaborations with Jerry Pournelle are good, but as I said, I
won't touch the "Burning" novels. Larry is like a fine delicacy, it's great when
you take it as it comes, but if you change it too much, it becomes less than it was.
--
jesus X [ Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism. ]
email [ jesus_x @ mozillanews.org ]
web [ <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mozillanews.org" target="_blank">http://www.mozillanews.org</a> ]
insult [ As usual, you've been a real pantload. ]
warning [ Don't touch that! You might mutate your fingers. ]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) |
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Since: May 24, 2004 Posts: 42
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <6kkHd.7348$HT6.6200@trnddc04>,
jesus X <jesus_x.TakeThisOut@mozillanews.org> wrote:
>On 1/18/2005 2:27 PM James Nicoll cranked up the brainbox and said:
>> Building Harlequin's Moon
>> Larry Niven & Brenda Cooper
>> Tor (June 2005)
>
>I must ask, while I'm enormously thankful for your preview to us, does anyone in
>your chain of command mind you doing this? I'm just surprised, is all. Thanks
>for the preview, it sounds like a great book.
Not at SFBC. Their view is, to put it precisely, [Classified]
but aside from that, I own my opinions. I worry a bit about authors but
since this was spoiler free and positive, I didn't think Niven would mind.
I did have a curious incident lately where I panned a book (already
out) on two NG and a guy who had never posted before or since popped up
to protest. It makes you go hmmm.
Oh, and I gave the Heinlein Estate the impression I had illegally
come into possession of the lost Heinlein manuscript. That was interesting
but no harm was done. The Estate moves _very_ quickly to defend its
interests but seems to be run by reasonable people. They specifically
asked that nothing be said about the book before it was released and
so I didn't.
James Nicoll
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Since: Sep 27, 2003 Posts: 24
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:47 am
Post subject: Re: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <csjnuc$m88$1@panix2.panix.com>,
jdnicoll DeleteThis @panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> This book is not with flaws
This book is not without flaws?
TS
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For latest versions of my reviews, see <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://towreviews.cjb.net" target="_blank">http://towreviews.cjb.net</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) |
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Since: Mar 01, 2004 Posts: 44
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:40 am
Post subject: Re: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 1/18/2005 10:43 PM James Nicoll cranked up the brainbox and said:
> Not at SFBC. Their view is, to put it precisely, [Classified]
Ahh, that makes it much clearer. Thanks for that info.
> but aside from that, I own my opinions. I worry a bit about authors but
> since this was spoiler free and positive, I didn't think Niven would mind.
I doubt it as well. You didn't post the book, or significant sections, nor even
more than one name, so no big spoilers at all (unless your goal in life is to
find books with characters named Selene). It was exactly what I would like to
see in more book reviews, actually. And, I'll be buying it without waiting for
other reviews, unlike what I usually do, so you did them a favor.
> I did have a curious incident lately where I panned a book (already
> out) on two NG and a guy who had never posted before or since popped up
> to protest. It makes you go hmmm.
Authors can be lurkers too.
> Oh, and I gave the Heinlein Estate the impression I had illegally
> come into possession of the lost Heinlein manuscript. That was interesting
> but no harm was done. The Estate moves _very_ quickly to defend its
> interests but seems to be run by reasonable people. They specifically
> asked that nothing be said about the book before it was released and
> so I didn't.
Yes, well, we won't tell them you secretly skulk about the world in search of
unpublished manuscripts to steal.
--
jesus X [ Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism. ]
email [ jesus_x @ mozillanews.org ]
web [ <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mozillanews.org" target="_blank">http://www.mozillanews.org</a> ]
insult [ As usual, you've been a real pantload. ]
warning [ Don't touch that! You might mutate your fingers. ]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) |
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Since: May 24, 2004 Posts: 42
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <na.c971784d2f.a806e0tennant RemoveThis @argonet.co.uk>,
Tennant Stuart <tennant RemoveThis @argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <csjnuc$m88$1@panix2.panix.com>,
>jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>
>> This book is not with flaws
>
>This book is not without flaws?
>
Pardon me while I talk to the offending hand with a hammer.
I believe it has learned its lesson.
Huh. Except for reach issue, I can type about as well with one
hand as with two. I am guessing that there is a discontinuity at zero,
though.
--
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Since: Mar 11, 2004 Posts: 87
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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James Nicoll wrote:
> Building Harlequin's Moon
> Larry Niven & Brenda Cooper
> Tor (June 2005)
> Review:
>
> Brenda Cooper is a name that I will keep an eye out for when I
> shop for books. I've read recent Niven by himself and recent Niven with
> Pournelle and neither one was like this book. Cooper must be the critical
> factor.
>
> Remember when Niven books were _fun_?
<snip>
> 2: The first phase takes 60,000 years and almost no pages, since living
> humans are not really involved. Terraforming is slow.
Thx for this James. (I know, it's just a Meeee Tooo post.)
TBerk<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) |
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Since: Apr 07, 2004 Posts: 3
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 18 Jan 2005 22:43:38 -0500, jdnicoll.DeleteThis@panix.com (James Nicoll)
wrote:
> I did have a curious incident lately where I panned a book (already
>out) on two NG and a guy who had never posted before or since popped up
>to protest. It makes you go hmmm.
I think you'll find that in a number of groups, including ABLN, there
is a significant population of "regulars" who often read the group,
but very rarely contribute.
For example, I have been a regular reader of ABLN for a couple of
years, but have probably made only one or two posts in that time.
Why? Simply not wishing to put up "Me Too" postings, to demonstrate
my lack of depth of knowledge of the topic, or to reduce the S/N ratio
by making a post (!!).
Hi to all the other "Grazers".
--
Please remove '_SpamTrap' when replying. You know why
Peter Ingham
Lower Hutt
New Zealand<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Building Harlequin's Moon (Spoiler Free) |
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