CB and Reggie Oliver

Whatever.

But for all your talk of attacks, you seem rather ignorant about those
that I have been on the recieving end of, for example:

* Libel that I had forged a signature in two rare books (Roden and
Anderson)
* Libel that I raided R Dalby's house for rare books (Pelan)
* Libel that I had been kicked off ABE (Pelan)
* Preposterous off-topic allegations that I have syphillis, that I
practically chain my visa-less wife up, and that I am not actually
English but an American who was ejected from the USA (Salmonson)
* Routine malicious harrassment via very nasty sock-puppets (sources:
already discussed)
* Personal attacks against me and my family (Salmonson and Roden).
* Routine denigration of every Haunted River publication, online, in
this forum (Roden and Pelan). Circa 100 negative posts *before*
VITTORINI had even come out, and the posting online of Crake's THREE
BLACK CATS to try and spike our sales / doscovery.

Put yourself on the receiving end of that, you strange little man, and
say that it wouldn't bother you. I'm *still* annoyed about it all and
will be for a great time longer. (You might have noticed?) Well, if it
bothers you, I suggest you blame those who started the ball rolling. I
am not damaging this newsgroup: the damage was done when the above
cabal of small press demons said what they did.

By the way, your posting is full of perverted logic and distortion.
The only review I have objected to is the Ashtree one, and my reasons
are sound: Roden has long exploited the pages of All Hallows for his
own gain. He did so here. The things that JR said about the prose were
perfectly valid: the obsessive criticisms of production minutae
directky mirrored the obsessive comments made by Roden here in this
very forum. Very fishy. And don't forget, Roden et al had already
misrepresented the price of another HR publication in an earlier
review, and then used that distortion as the basis for attacking me
personally.

No, I don't disapprove of ignorant lurkers. Show me where I have
criticised them. In this seedy world of nasty sock-puppetry I am very
cautious of new people; I have also made fun of some of the "Does
anyone know who write this story?" type posts; I'd be interested to
hear quite how you equate this scpetical caution with your own extreme
interpretation of what you think this says about me.

The book is doing very well without your one unwanted sale, thanks
very much. Don't take this personally, but we can do without customers
like you. Besides, you might be offended by the content, much of which
is of an adult nature.

Quite a few people who read this newsgroup have made purchases and I
continue to liase with them offline outside of this forum; it is a
rash mistake to think that just because I argue with a half dozen
pro-Roden supporters volubly here in abgf that it means I don't get on
with a great many 'independents' elsewhere. This site is *not* the
world's ghostly platform or stage: it is a small little organism
unknown to the greater majority. Common sense should tell you that: if
less than one fifth of the ALL HALLOWS readership are enrolled at the
A H discussion site, it means that at least 80% of people interested
in the supernatural can't be bothered with discussion sites.

So what goes on here is of far less importance than you think it is.

CB




GeoffreyW <pennyroyalNOSPAM DeleteThis @bellsouth.net.INVALID> wrote in message news:<3mod40pousadelt1ikleqs2vsppo5jkfsb DeleteThis @4ax.com>...
 > Chris
 >
 > I'm speaking as one of those whom you seem to despise so much; a
 > mostly lurker who does not have the in depth knowledge of this genre
 > to really compete with most of the regulars around here, yourself
 > included. I have never published a story nor written any scholarly
 > works. I merely love the genre as a reader and get so much from this
 > group and only wish I could put back more.
 >
 > I have read the reviews of Reggie Olivers book that you reviled so
 > much and been left wanting to buy it. There is only one thing really
 > stopping me now and that is you and your behaviour on this group. You
 > are behaving like one of those poltroons lampooned by your favoured
 > Private Eye magazine, instead of one of their fearless prickers of
 > pomposity and corruption, seeking out the dark truth wherever it tries
 > to hide; which is how I suspect you see yourself. I have never seen
 > anyone so unprofessional as you, who still expects to be taken
 > seriously and, on principal, I could never bring myself to give you
 > one single penny and I can only hope that Reggie Olivers book is
 > published by another house someday because that is the only way I will
 > ever possess the Dreams of Cardinal Vittorini, and its a great shame.
 >
 > You must not take this personally though. I am writing altruistically
 > to let you know what effect you are having on potential customers.
 > For every poster there are probably ten lurkers all of whom are genre
 > enthusiasts, and for every sympathiser there are probably another ten
 > who are heartily sick of your attacks and who are deterred from
 > entering into contact with you and will never buy anything produced by
 > you. It must be difficult being a misunderstood genius who knows
 > everything and see's all. Bah. You did it to me again. You are a
 > vexatious creature. Time for bed.
 >
 > Geoff<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver 

GeoffreyW <pennyroyalNOSPAM DeleteThis @bellsouth.net.INVALID> wrote in message news:<3mod40pousadelt1ikleqs2vsppo5jkfsb DeleteThis @4ax.com>...
 > Chris
 >
 > I'm speaking as one of those whom you seem to despise so much; a
 > mostly lurker who does not have the in depth knowledge of this genre
 > to really compete with most of the regulars around here, yourself
 > included. I have never published a story nor written any scholarly
 > works. I merely love the genre as a reader and get so much from this
 > group and only wish I could put back more.
 >
 > I have read the reviews of Reggie Olivers book that you reviled so
 > much and been left wanting to buy it. There is only one thing really
 > stopping me now and that is you and your behaviour on this group. You
 > are behaving like one of those poltroons lampooned by your favoured
 > Private Eye magazine, instead of one of their fearless prickers of
 > pomposity and corruption, seeking out the dark truth wherever it tries
 > to hide; which is how I suspect you see yourself. I have never seen
 > anyone so unprofessional as you, who still expects to be taken
 > seriously and, on principal, I could never bring myself to give you
 > one single penny and I can only hope that Reggie Olivers book is
 > published by another house someday because that is the only way I will
 > ever possess the Dreams of Cardinal Vittorini, and its a great shame.
 >
 > You must not take this personally though. I am writing altruistically
 > to let you know what effect you are having on potential customers.
 > For every poster there are probably ten lurkers all of whom are genre
 > enthusiasts, and for every sympathiser there are probably another ten
 > who are heartily sick of your attacks and who are deterred from
 > entering into contact with you and will never buy anything produced by
 > you. It must be difficult being a misunderstood genius who knows
 > everything and see's all. Bah. You did it to me again. You are a
 > vexatious creature. Time for bed.
 >
 > Geoff

I find this message quite sad really but a true reflection of the
situation - a number of people have made the same comment regarding
the Cardinal Vittorini book. Love to have it, but not from the current
source.

Unfortunately Christopher's postings are often, er, well, aggressive.
It's just his way. In the normal scheme of things it'd be considered a
bit of British eccentricity and ignored or avoided - sadly when
coupled with any form of commercial enterprise it's the kiss of death
(in my humble opinion)!

Poor Christopher could have really made something out of this
publishing event but for whatever reason chose not to and instead
continued to post in a way that could and would only discourage guys
like yourself (and myself).

I agree completely with your comments on the reviews.

Christopher, perhaps, has his own agenda - who knows what that might
be?

Maybe he's built expectation with those nearest and dearest, and when
this expectation is not realised - well, it's the fault of those damn
small press publishers, isn't it?

Who knows, who cares?

What I would say is that the Cardinal Vittorini is worth having. If
your objection is to Christopher having any reward from the sale,
well, tough, you'll have to wait for a new publisher.

On the other hand, for those who are just a tad worried about passing
money / credit card detail etc to Christopher because of his posting
style - then why not contact Andy Richards at Cold Tonnage Books?
Website <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.coldtonnage.com" target="_blank">www.coldtonnage.com</a>
or by email andy DeleteThis @coldtonnage.com I'm sure he might be able to help.

Who knows, perhaps Christopher's hoping that the fewer sales this book
makes now, with the stock he's got put away, what'll it be worth it
twenty years time?

Umh.

So, if you want to damage Christopher's future profits, order the
Cardinal Vittorini now!!

Kindest Regards

Peter<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver 

"Haunted River" <OhThoseVileBodies DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8aeb84d7.0403040834.566e68e6@posting.google.com...
 > Whatever.
 >
 > But for all your talk of attacks, you seem rather ignorant about those
 > that I have been on the recieving end of, for example:
 >
 > * Libel that I had forged a signature in two rare books (Roden and
 > Anderson)
 > * Libel that I raided R Dalby's house for rare books (Pelan)
 > * Libel that I had been kicked off ABE (Pelan)
 > * Preposterous off-topic allegations that I have syphillis, that I
 > practically chain my visa-less wife up, and that I am not actually
 > English but an American who was ejected from the USA (Salmonson)
 > * Routine malicious harrassment via very nasty sock-puppets (sources:
 > already discussed)
 > * Personal attacks against me and my family (Salmonson and Roden).
 > * Routine denigration of every Haunted River publication, online, in
 > this forum (Roden and Pelan). Circa 100 negative posts *before*
 > VITTORINI had even come out, and the posting online of Crake's THREE
 > BLACK CATS to try and spike our sales / doscovery.
 >

Chris:

As Tommy Lee Jones said in that wonderful scene in the innards of the
Hoover? dam in the movie The Fugitive, "I don't care." If you feel this
strongly, why don't you simply hire a lawyer and go to court?

Oh what a tangled mess we weave ... whenever we use the rational mind to try
to sort out this kind of crap. Best just to leave it alone

Ian
If you see moose turds on the trail, walk around them.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver 

The group exists: alt.flame

Screwballs of all sorts go there to rant at each other on topics about which
nobody else gives a shit.

Bill Meeks

"Ian Patton" <iyun RemoveThis @hyperscribe.ca> wrote in message
news:104ei3uile2to0e@corp.supernews.com...
 > <snip>
  > > You must not take this personally though. I am writing altruistically
  > > to let you know what effect you are having on potential customers.
  > > For every poster there are probably ten lurkers all of whom are genre
  > > enthusiasts, and for every sympathiser there are probably another ten
  > > who are heartily sick of your attacks and who are deterred from
  > > entering into contact with you and will never buy anything produced by
  > > you. It must be difficult being a misunderstood genius who knows
  > > everything and see's all. Bah. You did it to me again. You are a
  > > vexatious creature. Time for bed.
  > >
  > > Geoff
 >
 > Hi Geoff:
 >
 > I too am mostly a lurker and interested in the genre, and not in all the
 > crapola that seems to get vented here. If those who are responsible really
 > need, or just want to bitch 'n bleed that badly, perhaps they should set
up
 > their own newsgroup and have at it.
 >
 > Ian Patton
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver 

"Bill Meeks" <wmeeks.DeleteThis@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:104en3jn0u5qhbf@corp.supernews.com...
 > The group exists: alt.flame
 >
 > Screwballs of all sorts go there to rant at each other on topics about
which
 > nobody else gives a shit.
 >
 > Bill Meeks
 >

Can you possibly be serious? Oh my lord.

- Todd T.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver 

"Haunted River" <OhThoseVileBodies RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8aeb84d7.0403040834.566e68e6@posting.google.com...
(snip)
 > Quite a few people who read this newsgroup have made purchases and I
 > continue to liase with them offline outside of this forum; it is a
 > rash mistake to think that just because I argue with a half dozen
 > pro-Roden supporters volubly here in abgf that it means I don't get on
 > with a great many 'independents' elsewhere. This site is *not* the
 > world's ghostly platform or stage: it is a small little organism
 > unknown to the greater majority. Common sense should tell you that: if
 > less than one fifth of the ALL HALLOWS readership are enrolled at the
 > A H discussion site, it means that at least 80% of people interested
 > in the supernatural can't be bothered with discussion sites.
 >
 > So what goes on here is of far less importance than you think it is.
 >
 > CB
 >

Then there cannot be any reason to spend time arguing for the hearts of its
participants, or carrying on endlessly with OT and personal disputes. By
anyone, about anything - I'm not singling you out. If someone libels in the
woods and there is no one there to hear it, did it make a sound?

- Todd T.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver 

On 4 Mar 2004 08:34:56 -0800, OhThoseVileBodies.RemoveThis@hotmail.com (Haunted
River) wrote:


 >
 >The book is doing very well without your one unwanted sale, thanks
 >very much. Don't take this personally, but we can do without customers
 >like you. Besides, you might be offended by the content, much of which
 >is of an adult nature.

Straight out of the Basil Fawlty School of Salesmanship. Nice one, Mr
Barker! And don't anyone go getting the idea that they can sneak
behind Mr Barker's back and buy the book from a reputable dealer,
either. 'Cos in his book that's a sneaky way of doing things.
 >
 >Quite a few people who read this newsgroup have made purchases and I
 >continue to liase

When will you learn to spell liaise correctly? You've been
bastardizing it for at least three years now.


 >So what goes on here is of far less importance than you think it is.
 >
 >CB
 >
Ah, at last. Mr Barker has had his great revelation on the road to
Damascus. Given what that revelation has told him, perhaps he will now
shut up and leave people to discuss ghost stories, should there be any
inspiration remaining.

Christopher<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver 

On 4 Mar 2004 08:34:56 -0800, OhThoseVileBodies DeleteThis @hotmail.com (Haunted
River) wrote:
<snip>

 >Put yourself on the receiving end of that, you strange little man, and
 >say that it wouldn't bother you. I'm *still* annoyed about it all and
 >will be for a great time longer. (You might have noticed?) Well, if it
 >bothers you, I suggest you blame those who started the ball rolling. I
 >am not damaging this newsgroup: the damage was done when the above
 >cabal of small press demons said what they did.

Thanks Chris.

Now my wife is walking round saying *You strange little man!*.
What a hoot!

If I was on the recieving end of all that agravation I must say that I
*would* be a bit grumpy too. It just never happens to me. I enjoy a
contentious discusion now and then but the trick is knowing when to
stop, and how to listen to what other people are saying and feeling.
Its called sensitivity.

You are correct, though, none of this is particularly important and I
don't care that you don't care and the sun will still rise in the
morning. It's still a beautiful world, Chris, no matter how badly you
feel done by.

Geoff<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver 

Mark wrote:
 > A two-step proposal:
 > 1) Never reply in person to any message from Chris Barker.
 > This will only work if we all agree to shut him out.

I agree, though it's very hard to do. He's cunning, seems to have
endless time on his hands and has shown that, even when things are
calm, he will keep posting provocative criticisms and downright lies
ad infinitum.

I think it would help if we set a time, say midnight tomorrow night
PST, or whenever (it doesn't really matter) as this will give everyone
time to read these posts. Not everyone reads them immediately, some
only look in once a day.

 > 2) A Chris Barker FAQ, posted whenever he shows up here.
 > This document will expose his recurring lies and animosities
 > for the sake of new readers, and will save us the time and effort
 > of replying in person to his cyclical accusations. He is, after all,
 > predictably belligerent; a detailed FAQ would save us the effort of
 > refuting, once again, his constant attacks on our work and
 > reputations.

 > This approach might seem cruel at first. Yet we've all seen how
 > he cannot be trusted to play by rules that others accept
 > unconditionally; we've all seen his constant strategy of projecting
 > his faults and fallacies onto other people while refusing to accept
 > responsibility for his own actions. Nothing we've said has
 > altered his opinions or helped him to learn in any way.

I agree with the FAQ suggestion, for the reasons you've given. Also,
when he posts his nonsense and his lies, and one of us feels that we
absolutely must post something in reply (let's face it, Barker is
intentionally annoying and insulting and will poke us endlessly to try
to get a reaction), then we can simply repost the Barker FAQ and leave
it at that. That would have the minimum disruptive effect on the rest
of the group while still allowing his victims some response to his
accusations. A Barker FAQ would also mean that long threads of
animosity, the sort that so disrupt this group, would no longer be
necessary as we just repost the FAQ and be done with it.

Barker will also hone in on any new members who join the group so a
FAQ would be very useful in defending ourselves against his
fabrications and inventions before newbies, and again would mean that
we wouldn't have to get drawn into long threads of accusation and
counter-accusation.

 > Another point to consider:

 > If, as many here believe, Chris Barker does indeed suffer
 > from a narcissistic illness, we might be harming him,
 > reinforcing his condition, whenever we allow ourselves to be
 > drawn into his fights. By responding to him,
 > we might be hindering his ability to heal and grow.

 > If that is, in fact, the case, then we have a decision to make.
 > Shall we continue wasting our time, responding to accusations
 > that no one here believes, possibly enabling the distorted behaviour
 > of a man who needs psychiatric help? Or shall we agree, all of
 > us, without exception, to grant him the silence and solitude he
 > requires to confront this illness?

 > Mark Dillon
 > Quebec, Canada

I agree with this also. Barker is best ignored, both in our interests
and in his own. But he will make it as difficult as he possibly can
for us to do so, as these heated arguments are obviously very
important in his life. He wont let go without a fight. I think we
need a Barker FAQ as a shield with which to keep fobbing him off.

Could you draw up a FAQ and then we can take an informal vote on it?

DJA<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver 

Christopher Roden squeezed into his malodorous ape-suit and doffed his
Inspector Lestrange helmet to say:

  > > When will you learn to spell liaise correctly? You've been
 > bastardizing it for at least three years now.
 >
 >

Well, I don't doubt that you no more about bastards than most.

Chris Barker
The Haunted River
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.users.waitrose.com/~hauntedriver" target="_blank">www.users.waitrose.com/~hauntedriver</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver 

GeoffreyW <pennyroyalNOSPAM.DeleteThis@bellsouth.net.INVALID> wrote in message news:<vfgf4017r4ifkfk62ubmhmc07da7krdr1u.DeleteThis@4ax.com>...
 > On 4 Mar 2004 08:34:56 -0800, OhThoseVileBodies.DeleteThis@hotmail.com (Haunted
 > River) wrote:
 > <snip>
 >
  > >Put yourself on the receiving end of that, you strange little man, and
  > >say that it wouldn't bother you. I'm *still* annoyed about it all and
  > >will be for a great time longer. (You might have noticed?) Well, if it
  > >bothers you, I suggest you blame those who started the ball rolling. I
  > >am not damaging this newsgroup: the damage was done when the above
  > >cabal of small press demons said what they did.
 >
 > Thanks Chris.
 >
 > Now my wife is walking round saying *You strange little man!*.
 > What a hoot!
 >
 > If I was on the recieving end of all that agravation I must say that I
 > *would* be a bit grumpy too. It just never happens to me. I enjoy a
 > contentious discusion now and then but the trick is knowing when to
 > stop, and how to listen to what other people are saying and feeling.
 > Its called sensitivity.
 >
 > You are correct, though, none of this is particularly important and I
 > don't care that you don't care and the sun will still rise in the
 > morning. It's still a beautiful world, Chris, no matter how badly you
 > feel done by.
 >
 > Geoff


Well, I don't feel especially hard done by. Just look around you,
there are millions of people in the world who have genuinely ghastly
lives. It's just that it bugs me - it has always bugged me! - when a
gang of bullies get together and try to push people around (in this
case me).

I've always hated people who seek to impose their will on others. With
a vengeance. At school, at college, at work. Everywhere. Admittedly I
don't always win.......in fact, I can think of a couple of memorable
occasions when I found myself squashed quite literally
underfoot....but the victories fully vindicate the effort. I once
counter-sued the Thames Valley Police after they tried fitting me up
for something that one of their officers did - and won. For all this
talking-up of paltry £50 owed to the Fantasy Convention, *that* was a
genuine court case.

But I must admit that I am on occasion a little too sharp with
innocent abgf bystanders. It's battle-stress.

CB<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver 

Peter Leonard was running several sock-puppets in this group and has
been banned from the RA forum at Yahoo for making derogatory comments
about another member.

THE DREAMS OF CARDINAL VITTORINI is available direct from the
publisher or can be purchased from one of the following dealers:

* Cold Tonnage Books (UK)
* Ken Cowley (UK)
* Mythos Books (USA)


Chris Barker
The Haunted River
www.users.waitrose.com/~hauntedriver

PS. It may interest people to know that in the last few days there has
been a sudden flurry of sales in both VITTORINI and WEIRDLY
SUPERNATURAL. I'm not saying that people disagree with the bizarre
antics employed by Messrs Roden and Pelan et al, just that they appear
to wanting to make a decision for themselves.
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver 

On 5 Mar 2004 01:54:54 -0800, OhThoseVileBodies DeleteThis @hotmail.com (Haunted
River) wrote:

 >GeoffreyW <pennyroyalNOSPAM DeleteThis @bellsouth.net.INVALID> wrote in message news:<vfgf4017r4ifkfk62ubmhmc07da7krdr1u DeleteThis @4ax.com>...
  >> On 4 Mar 2004 08:34:56 -0800, OhThoseVileBodies DeleteThis @hotmail.com (Haunted
  >> River) wrote:
  >> <snip>
  >>
   >> >Put yourself on the receiving end of that, you strange little man, and
   >> >say that it wouldn't bother you. I'm *still* annoyed about it all and
   >> >will be for a great time longer. (You might have noticed?) Well, if it
   >> >bothers you, I suggest you blame those who started the ball rolling. I
   >> >am not damaging this newsgroup: the damage was done when the above
   >> >cabal of small press demons said what they did.
  >>
  >> Thanks Chris.
  >>
  >> Now my wife is walking round saying *You strange little man!*.
  >> What a hoot!
  >>
  >> If I was on the recieving end of all that agravation I must say that I
  >> *would* be a bit grumpy too. It just never happens to me. I enjoy a
  >> contentious discusion now and then but the trick is knowing when to
  >> stop, and how to listen to what other people are saying and feeling.
  >> Its called sensitivity.
  >>
  >> You are correct, though, none of this is particularly important and I
  >> don't care that you don't care and the sun will still rise in the
  >> morning. It's still a beautiful world, Chris, no matter how badly you
  >> feel done by.
  >>
  >> Geoff
 >
 >
 >Well, I don't feel especially hard done by. Just look around you,
 >there are millions of people in the world who have genuinely ghastly
 >lives. It's just that it bugs me - it has always bugged me! - when a
 >gang of bullies get together and try to push people around (in this
 >case me).
 >
 >I've always hated people who seek to impose their will on others. With
 >a vengeance. At school, at college, at work. Everywhere. Admittedly I
 >don't always win.......in fact, I can think of a couple of memorable
 >occasions when I found myself squashed quite literally
 >underfoot....but the victories fully vindicate the effort. I once
 >counter-sued the Thames Valley Police after they tried fitting me up
 >for something that one of their officers did - and won. For all this
 >talking-up of paltry £50 owed to the Fantasy Convention, *that* was a
 >genuine court case.
 >
 >But I must admit that I am on occasion a little too sharp with
 >innocent abgf bystanders. It's battle-stress.
 >
 >CB

Never a dull moment eh? What a turbulent life you must lead. Batten
the hatches and splice the main brace; looks like a big black
thunderhead looming just over the horizon...

Geoff<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: CB and Reggie Oliver