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Since: Dec 12, 2006 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:52 am
Post subject: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? Archived from groups: rec>arts>comics>marvel>xbooks (more info?)
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Mike Carey's X-men is wasted on me and I don't understand why I'm
seemingly the only one online who can't seem to muster up enough
sympathy for the title to be so extatic about it. Everywhere I go I see
people doing backflips and foaming at the mouth gurgling that X-men is
the absolute best, stories, characters, dialogue, it's all the best
since forever, and it's the best title one can find these days in the
X-stables.
I'm reading it, and I'm thinking: What the hell have these people been
sniffing?
The story so far hasn't blown me away. We're treated to yet another
ominous race of superbeings who aren't mutants, and who are evil
through and through. The Children of the Vault have no redeeming
qualities that allows you to sympathize with them. They want to wipe
out all mutants and all humans so they can rule the world, because they
believe it's their destiny. The Neo did it for simple revenge, which is
something I can understand.
But that's not all, we get a villainous team of superbeings, and only
two are properly developped, and it really doesn't matter because by
the end of it, one of those two is dead, and the other is put in a
state of might be might not be. The rest of the characters ends up dead
or escapes from the scene, where they remain nothing more but a special
effect on legs with a spanish name attached to it. You can say a
hundred things about the Children, but you can't say that they're
rounded characters or even decent villains. A motive that is less
inspired than something out of the sixties, and characterisation that
puts even the dreadful Neo ten step above them.
There is of course our team of heroes. Rogue has assembled a remarkably
disfunctional gang of misfits, and if you'd ever find yourself on a
team as hers you'd fear for your life when you turn round a dark
corner. Lady Mastermind went from villain to hero in a heartbeat, and
somewhere between panels she developed a relationship with Beast... a
relationship advanced enough that they might share pleasantries in the
hallway and call each other by their first name. I know, she's doing it
because she wants to find out who put her in a hospital... but explain
to me why she would hook up with the X-men, the people who were
responsible for her being in a coma, rotting away in some damp hospital
in the first place. The enemy of my enemy is my friend... that's a bit
simplistic, if I were Rogue or any X-man on her team, I would trust her
about as far as I could throw her.
Mystique is a whole different story, apparantly she's in for the ride
because Rogue wants to keep an eye on her. That's not exactly the
person I would want to have near me when my life depends on it. She can
just as easily keep an eye on Mystique if Raven was placed in a neat
little box with cameras recording her every move, or one of the million
other devices the X-men mansion is rich with. Having her be part of
your team is one of those tactics that you know won't work... I mean
did they forget X-factor?
Speaking of X-factor... Sabretooth had a leash on, that was set to
explode or something if he ever got funny ideas... it was foolproof...
just like those sentinels they injected him with... these people have a
death wish, at this point I'm just hoping that they get their wish
fulfilled, because they deserve it for being this stupid.
Iceman is now even more powerful than he has ever been before. His body
has been destroyed twice now, utterly destroyed, as in he was nothing
more than vapour... but hey, look he's okay. The first time it took him
some effort to regain his form, but the second time he did it in the
midst of a battle AND took out some Children in the process.
The story itself isn't blowing me away either. The X-men defeat the
serious dark new threat in such a fashion that it look awkwardly easy.
You get five issues of set-up, and one issue where they take the
offense and beat the Children in the blink of an eye. With a
stereotypical warning "We'll be back"... like we haven't heard that
before.
And how exactly did Rogue deduct that the Children were running on
solar energy... and no offense, but the line "we have additional power
stored in our suits" seemed to be tagged on just to explain a potential
plothole that was discovered after a first read. Apparantly Rogue, the
super-leader, super-strategic mastermind, is now also the smartest of
the bunch for coming to a conclusion that's also the correct one based
on... based on what exactly? A large dish on the deck? Claremont pimps
his women like there's no tomorrow, but even he didn't exaggerate to
this extent.
The art is cool, I like Bachallo, I can read Bachallo, but it's not
exactly consistent. We've seen four different versions of Beast thrown
onto the pages, and each looks more horrible than the other. Cat... not
Walrus.
And people keep jumping up and down claiming THIS is the best the X-men
titles have currently got?
I don't get it. I really don't. >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Dec 15, 2004 Posts: 51
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:15 pm
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Bikon wrote:
> Mike Carey's X-men is wasted on me and I don't understand why I'm
> seemingly the only one online who can't seem to muster up enough
> sympathy for the title to be so extatic about it. Everywhere I go I see
> people doing backflips and foaming at the mouth gurgling that X-men is
> the absolute best, stories, characters, dialogue, it's all the best
> since forever, and it's the best title one can find these days in the
> X-stables.
>
> I'm reading it, and I'm thinking: What the hell have these people been
> sniffing?
>
> The story so far hasn't blown me away.
Really? The best x-offering? I am not aware that that is the widely
held opinion.
I WOULD say what it has going for it is the most interestingly written
Rogue in ages. Detached from Gambit, there is some good character
work beind done with Rogue.
Though this is the second or third time she's been written as a leader
(the other time being when Claremont's "Revolution" return to the
Xbooks...and maybe during the space faring days of Lobdell/Madureira),
this time it approaches working. And despite the reasoning she chooses
her team being a bit shaky, I loved the bit where Rogue brushed off
Cyclops' objections for her choice of squad. A Rogue squadron if you
will. Rogue is filling the role previously held by Storm as being the
foil for Cyclops style of leadership (unconventional tactics, taking
the team away from the mansion etc).
But yeah, the whole "Supernovas" arc? Not too exciting.
The villains werent memorable at all.
The team lineup has some weak spots : never liked Iceman, Cannonball
seems out of place and Cable presence conflicts with whats going on in
his own book. Will take some convincing that newcomers Omega Sentinel
and Lady Mastermind are compelling additions. Mastermind might be
marginally easier to buy. I do expect that the chemistry and interplay
btw Rogue, Mystique and Sabretooth might be worth suspending disbelief
over this being retread of ground covered by previous storyline by
other writers (Mackie's XFactor etc).
I havent given up but would say the book rises and falls on the
character bits for Rogue. >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Oct 28, 2007 Posts: 66
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:11 am
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In message <1167058332.176710.59650.RemoveThis@h40g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Bikon
<Santaroga.Barrier.RemoveThis@gmail.com> writes
>
>I'm reading it, and I'm thinking: What the hell have these people been
>sniffing?
I think the basic appeal is that in comparison with some of the stuff
we've done lately, Carey is going back to basics and just writing a
relatively straight book where the X-Men fight villains. He's also
allowing Rogue to be something other than "that girl in the never-ending
Gambit subplot." Basically, he's not trying to reinvent the wheel.
ASTONISHING comes out on a glacial schedule, UNCANNY is tied up in a
year-long Shi'ar storyline which won't be to everyone's taste, and
ULTIMATE seems to be losing its way. X-MEN has the best shot of getting
broad appeal, at least among the X-Men fanbase. (Of course, in the real
world of actual sales, it's number three, with only ULTIMATE rating
below it. Query, perhaps, what the point is of an ULTIMATE X-MEN title
that sells below all three versions of the original book.)
--
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS - http://www.thexaxis.com
IF DESTROYED - http://ifdestroyed.blogspot.com
NINTH ART - http://www.ninthart.com >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Apr 21, 2005 Posts: 62
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:29 am
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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If it makes you feel any better, Carey's Ult. Fantastic Four is horrible
too.
"Bikon" <Santaroga.Barrier.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167058332.176710.59650@h40g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Mike Carey's X-men is wasted on me and I don't understand why I'm
> seemingly the only one online who can't seem to muster up enough
> sympathy for the title to be so extatic about it. Everywhere I go I see
> people doing backflips and foaming at the mouth gurgling that X-men is
> the absolute best, stories, characters, dialogue, it's all the best
> since forever, and it's the best title one can find these days in the
> X-stables.
>
> I'm reading it, and I'm thinking: What the hell have these people been
> sniffing?
>
> The story so far hasn't blown me away. We're treated to yet another
> ominous race of superbeings who aren't mutants, and who are evil
> through and through. The Children of the Vault have no redeeming
> qualities that allows you to sympathize with them. They want to wipe
> out all mutants and all humans so they can rule the world, because they
> believe it's their destiny. The Neo did it for simple revenge, which is
> something I can understand.
>
> But that's not all, we get a villainous team of superbeings, and only
> two are properly developped, and it really doesn't matter because by
> the end of it, one of those two is dead, and the other is put in a
> state of might be might not be. The rest of the characters ends up dead
> or escapes from the scene, where they remain nothing more but a special
> effect on legs with a spanish name attached to it. You can say a
> hundred things about the Children, but you can't say that they're
> rounded characters or even decent villains. A motive that is less
> inspired than something out of the sixties, and characterisation that
> puts even the dreadful Neo ten step above them.
>
> There is of course our team of heroes. Rogue has assembled a remarkably
> disfunctional gang of misfits, and if you'd ever find yourself on a
> team as hers you'd fear for your life when you turn round a dark
> corner. Lady Mastermind went from villain to hero in a heartbeat, and
> somewhere between panels she developed a relationship with Beast... a
> relationship advanced enough that they might share pleasantries in the
> hallway and call each other by their first name. I know, she's doing it
> because she wants to find out who put her in a hospital... but explain
> to me why she would hook up with the X-men, the people who were
> responsible for her being in a coma, rotting away in some damp hospital
> in the first place. The enemy of my enemy is my friend... that's a bit
> simplistic, if I were Rogue or any X-man on her team, I would trust her
> about as far as I could throw her.
>
> Mystique is a whole different story, apparantly she's in for the ride
> because Rogue wants to keep an eye on her. That's not exactly the
> person I would want to have near me when my life depends on it. She can
> just as easily keep an eye on Mystique if Raven was placed in a neat
> little box with cameras recording her every move, or one of the million
> other devices the X-men mansion is rich with. Having her be part of
> your team is one of those tactics that you know won't work... I mean
> did they forget X-factor?
>
> Speaking of X-factor... Sabretooth had a leash on, that was set to
> explode or something if he ever got funny ideas... it was foolproof...
> just like those sentinels they injected him with... these people have a
> death wish, at this point I'm just hoping that they get their wish
> fulfilled, because they deserve it for being this stupid.
>
> Iceman is now even more powerful than he has ever been before. His body
> has been destroyed twice now, utterly destroyed, as in he was nothing
> more than vapour... but hey, look he's okay. The first time it took him
> some effort to regain his form, but the second time he did it in the
> midst of a battle AND took out some Children in the process.
>
> The story itself isn't blowing me away either. The X-men defeat the
> serious dark new threat in such a fashion that it look awkwardly easy.
> You get five issues of set-up, and one issue where they take the
> offense and beat the Children in the blink of an eye. With a
> stereotypical warning "We'll be back"... like we haven't heard that
> before.
>
> And how exactly did Rogue deduct that the Children were running on
> solar energy... and no offense, but the line "we have additional power
> stored in our suits" seemed to be tagged on just to explain a potential
> plothole that was discovered after a first read. Apparantly Rogue, the
> super-leader, super-strategic mastermind, is now also the smartest of
> the bunch for coming to a conclusion that's also the correct one based
> on... based on what exactly? A large dish on the deck? Claremont pimps
> his women like there's no tomorrow, but even he didn't exaggerate to
> this extent.
>
> The art is cool, I like Bachallo, I can read Bachallo, but it's not
> exactly consistent. We've seen four different versions of Beast thrown
> onto the pages, and each looks more horrible than the other. Cat... not
> Walrus.
>
> And people keep jumping up and down claiming THIS is the best the X-men
> titles have currently got?
>
> I don't get it. I really don't.
> >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Dec 12, 2006 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Paul O'Brien schreef:
> In message <1167058332.176710.59650 DeleteThis @h40g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Bikon
> <Santaroga.Barrier DeleteThis @gmail.com> writes
> >
> >I'm reading it, and I'm thinking: What the hell have these people been
> >sniffing?
>
> I think the basic appeal is that in comparison with some of the stuff
> we've done lately, Carey is going back to basics and just writing a
> relatively straight book where the X-Men fight villains. He's also
> allowing Rogue to be something other than "that girl in the never-ending
> Gambit subplot." Basically, he's not trying to reinvent the wheel.
He might not be reinventing the wheel, but people all over the Net are
falling head over heels for something that is average at best,
bombarding it with praise and accolades, pretending that not
reinventing the wheel is just the opposite, something revolutionary.
I'm less than impressed with Carey's work, and that's based on the
actual titles, and not expectations I had before he took over, or
pretenses about the entire line of titles.
We're one storyline in and Rogue is the only character with
development, and it's mainly one take on the character, expanded over
six issues, a base type that's different from her previous incarnation.
She might not be tied to Gambit at the moment, thank god for that, but
instead of getting something a bit more in the middle, the pendulum has
swung to the other end. Now it's Super-Rogue and her band of merry
misfits.
It's almost as if Carey wants to one-up Claremont in terms of playing
favorites.
> ASTONISHING comes out on a glacial schedule, UNCANNY is tied up in a
> year-long Shi'ar storyline which won't be to everyone's taste, and
> ULTIMATE seems to be losing its way. X-MEN has the best shot of getting
> broad appeal, at least among the X-Men fanbase. (Of course, in the real
> world of actual sales, it's number three, with only ULTIMATE rating
> below it. Query, perhaps, what the point is of an ULTIMATE X-MEN title
> that sells below all three versions of the original book.)
But I'm not comparing Carey to Whedon and Brubaker. For me Astonishing
X-men is something entirely different, as you said it, it moves at a
snail's pace, and on top of that it exists in its own little bubble
continuity and universe.
Uncanny X-men is damn near literally set in a different universe, it's
almost so far removed from the general titles and background setting of
the X-universe that's it's no longer an X-title while in Shi'Ar space,
but something else entirely.
Either way, neither titles are X-men, and neither are they written by
Carey.
Comparing them isn't something I'm willing to do. I'm just making a
comment on X-men and how people on the net falling head over heels for
it, hitting it with superlatives.
I'm judging X-men by its own merits, not comparing it to the other
titles, because that never leads to anything productive.
> --
> Paul O'Brien
>
> THE X-AXIS - http://www.thexaxis.com
> IF DESTROYED - http://ifdestroyed.blogspot.com
> NINTH ART - http://www.ninthart.com >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Aug 03, 2005 Posts: 17
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:14 pm
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I was surprised they're using lady mastermind, when in general her
half-sister has been the more sympathetic character.
As for Iceman reforming himself after discorporation, hardly a big
deal, anyone who has read Age of Apocolypse has known he could do that
even if he didn't.
But yeah, I wouldn't want to be on Rogue's team unless I was scarier
than Sabretooth. >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Jan 12, 2005 Posts: 218
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:37 am
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Nathan P. Mahney wrote:
> Bikon wrote:
> > Mike Carey's X-men is wasted on me and I don't understand why I'm
> > seemingly the only one online who can't seem to muster up enough
> > sympathy for the title to be so extatic about it. Everywhere I go I see
> > people doing backflips and foaming at the mouth gurgling that X-men is
> > the absolute best, stories, characters, dialogue, it's all the best
> > since forever, and it's the best title one can find these days in the
> > X-stables.
> >
> > I'm reading it, and I'm thinking: What the hell have these people been
> > sniffing?
> >
> > The story so far hasn't blown me away. We're treated to yet another
> > ominous race of superbeings who aren't mutants, and who are evil
> > through and through. The Children of the Vault have no redeeming
> > qualities that allows you to sympathize with them. They want to wipe
> > out all mutants and all humans so they can rule the world, because they
> > believe it's their destiny. The Neo did it for simple revenge, which is
> > something I can understand.
> >
> > But that's not all, we get a villainous team of superbeings, and only
> > two are properly developped, and it really doesn't matter because by
> > the end of it, one of those two is dead, and the other is put in a
> > state of might be might not be. The rest of the characters ends up dead
> > or escapes from the scene, where they remain nothing more but a special
> > effect on legs with a spanish name attached to it. You can say a
> > hundred things about the Children, but you can't say that they're
> > rounded characters or even decent villains. A motive that is less
> > inspired than something out of the sixties, and characterisation that
> > puts even the dreadful Neo ten step above them.
> >
> > There is of course our team of heroes. Rogue has assembled a remarkably
> > disfunctional gang of misfits, and if you'd ever find yourself on a
> > team as hers you'd fear for your life when you turn round a dark
> > corner. Lady Mastermind went from villain to hero in a heartbeat, and
> > somewhere between panels she developed a relationship with Beast... a
> > relationship advanced enough that they might share pleasantries in the
> > hallway and call each other by their first name. I know, she's doing it
> > because she wants to find out who put her in a hospital... but explain
> > to me why she would hook up with the X-men, the people who were
> > responsible for her being in a coma, rotting away in some damp hospital
> > in the first place. The enemy of my enemy is my friend... that's a bit
> > simplistic, if I were Rogue or any X-man on her team, I would trust her
> > about as far as I could throw her.
> >
> > Mystique is a whole different story, apparantly she's in for the ride
> > because Rogue wants to keep an eye on her. That's not exactly the
> > person I would want to have near me when my life depends on it. She can
> > just as easily keep an eye on Mystique if Raven was placed in a neat
> > little box with cameras recording her every move, or one of the million
> > other devices the X-men mansion is rich with. Having her be part of
> > your team is one of those tactics that you know won't work... I mean
> > did they forget X-factor?
> >
> > Speaking of X-factor... Sabretooth had a leash on, that was set to
> > explode or something if he ever got funny ideas... it was foolproof...
> > just like those sentinels they injected him with... these people have a
> > death wish, at this point I'm just hoping that they get their wish
> > fulfilled, because they deserve it for being this stupid.
> >
> > Iceman is now even more powerful than he has ever been before. His body
> > has been destroyed twice now, utterly destroyed, as in he was nothing
> > more than vapour... but hey, look he's okay. The first time it took him
> > some effort to regain his form, but the second time he did it in the
> > midst of a battle AND took out some Children in the process.
> >
> > The story itself isn't blowing me away either. The X-men defeat the
> > serious dark new threat in such a fashion that it look awkwardly easy.
> > You get five issues of set-up, and one issue where they take the
> > offense and beat the Children in the blink of an eye. With a
> > stereotypical warning "We'll be back"... like we haven't heard that
> > before.
> >
> > And how exactly did Rogue deduct that the Children were running on
> > solar energy... and no offense, but the line "we have additional power
> > stored in our suits" seemed to be tagged on just to explain a potential
> > plothole that was discovered after a first read. Apparantly Rogue, the
> > super-leader, super-strategic mastermind, is now also the smartest of
> > the bunch for coming to a conclusion that's also the correct one based
> > on... based on what exactly? A large dish on the deck? Claremont pimps
> > his women like there's no tomorrow, but even he didn't exaggerate to
> > this extent.
> >
> > The art is cool, I like Bachallo, I can read Bachallo, but it's not
> > exactly consistent. We've seen four different versions of Beast thrown
> > onto the pages, and each looks more horrible than the other. Cat... not
> > Walrus.
> >
> > And people keep jumping up and down claiming THIS is the best the X-men
> > titles have currently got?
>
> I would have to say the opposite - X-Men is the least enjoyable of the three
> X-Men titles at the moment. Carey is yet to impress me with any of his
> Marvel work. It's all okay, but nothing stands out. Bachalo I am finding a
> hindrance to the story. The one fill-in we've had during Carey's run was a
> huge improvement just by way of being readable.
I'll agree there, but I've been able to read through the muck that
passes for art by Bachalo. IMO, the characters in UNCANNY and
ASTONISHING are acting like idiots, whereas Carey's writing his
characters, for the most part, intelligently, and that's enough for me. >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Jan 12, 2005 Posts: 218
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:06 am
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jinx wrote:
> Bikon wrote:
> > Mike Carey's X-men is wasted on me and I don't understand why I'm
> > seemingly the only one online who can't seem to muster up enough
> > sympathy for the title to be so extatic about it. Everywhere I go I see
> > people doing backflips and foaming at the mouth gurgling that X-men is
> > the absolute best, stories, characters, dialogue, it's all the best
> > since forever, and it's the best title one can find these days in the
> > X-stables.
> >
> > I'm reading it, and I'm thinking: What the hell have these people been
> > sniffing?
> >
> > The story so far hasn't blown me away.
>
> Really? The best x-offering? I am not aware that that is the widely
> held opinion.
It is held by many, though I wouldn't say it's "widely held." I would
agree (sort of) with those that think it is though. ASTONISHING has
been dull, and the schedule isn't helping. UNCANNY is being written as
if all of the characters are idiots, and the pacing is disastrous. The
only x-offering that I'm enjoying more than Adj-less X-MEN, right now,
is NEW X-MEN.
> I WOULD say what it has going for it is the most interestingly written
> Rogue in ages. Detached from Gambit, there is some good character
> work beind done with Rogue.
> Though this is the second or third time she's been written as a leader
> (the other time being when Claremont's "Revolution" return to the
> Xbooks...and maybe during the space faring days of Lobdell/Madureira),
> this time it approaches working. And despite the reasoning she chooses
> her team being a bit shaky, I loved the bit where Rogue brushed off
> Cyclops' objections for her choice of squad. A Rogue squadron if you
> will. Rogue is filling the role previously held by Storm as being the
> foil for Cyclops style of leadership (unconventional tactics, taking
> the team away from the mansion etc).
>
> But yeah, the whole "Supernovas" arc? Not too exciting.
> The villains werent memorable at all.
I disagree. Frankly, I haven't been this excited about an X-Men story
in around 9 years, I think (whenever the Seagle/Kelly run was). The
Children of the Vault could have been classics... that is, until they
died. I think that was a mistake. I was really starting to love them
(well, at least there's more of them). Pan seems interesting so far.
The villains in ASTONISHING and UNCANNY aren't at all memorable.
> The team lineup has some weak spots : never liked Iceman, Cannonball
> seems out of place and Cable presence conflicts with whats going on in
> his own book. Will take some convincing that newcomers Omega Sentinel
> and Lady Mastermind are compelling additions. Mastermind might be
> marginally easier to buy. I do expect that the chemistry and interplay
> btw Rogue, Mystique and Sabretooth might be worth suspending disbelief
> over this being retread of ground covered by previous storyline by
> other writers (Mackie's XFactor etc).
Considering his history, Cannonball doesn't seem at all out of place.
He seemed more out of place before (probably why he just kind of
drifted). I've never really been a fan of Iceman (not counting "Spidey
and his Amazing Friends"), but I'm starting to like him more. >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Apr 21, 2005 Posts: 62
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:55 pm
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Isn't everyone looking forward to Iceman/Northstar romance?
<ajsolis.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1167275641.475376.149180@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I was surprised they're using lady mastermind, when in general her
> half-sister has been the more sympathetic character.
>
> As for Iceman reforming himself after discorporation, hardly a big
> deal, anyone who has read Age of Apocolypse has known he could do that
> even if he didn't.
>
> But yeah, I wouldn't want to be on Rogue's team unless I was scarier
> than Sabretooth.
> >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Feb 28, 2004 Posts: 463
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:39 pm
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bikon" <Santaroga.Barrier DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1167058332.176710.59650@h40g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Mike Carey's X-men is wasted on me and I don't understand why I'm
> seemingly the only one online who can't seem to muster up enough
> sympathy for the title to be so extatic about it. Everywhere I go I see
> people doing backflips and foaming at the mouth gurgling that X-men is
> the absolute best, stories, characters, dialogue, it's all the best
> since forever, and it's the best title one can find these days in the
> X-stables.
>
> I'm reading it, and I'm thinking: What the hell have these people been
> sniffing?
>
> The story so far hasn't blown me away. We're treated to yet another
> ominous race of superbeings who aren't mutants, and who are evil
> through and through. The Children of the Vault have no redeeming
> qualities that allows you to sympathize with them. They want to wipe
> out all mutants and all humans so they can rule the world, because they
> believe it's their destiny. The Neo did it for simple revenge, which is
> something I can understand.
>
> But that's not all, we get a villainous team of superbeings, and only
> two are properly developped, and it really doesn't matter because by
> the end of it, one of those two is dead, and the other is put in a
> state of might be might not be. The rest of the characters ends up dead
> or escapes from the scene, where they remain nothing more but a special
> effect on legs with a spanish name attached to it. You can say a
> hundred things about the Children, but you can't say that they're
> rounded characters or even decent villains. A motive that is less
> inspired than something out of the sixties, and characterisation that
> puts even the dreadful Neo ten step above them.
>
> There is of course our team of heroes. Rogue has assembled a remarkably
> disfunctional gang of misfits, and if you'd ever find yourself on a
> team as hers you'd fear for your life when you turn round a dark
> corner. Lady Mastermind went from villain to hero in a heartbeat, and
> somewhere between panels she developed a relationship with Beast... a
> relationship advanced enough that they might share pleasantries in the
> hallway and call each other by their first name. I know, she's doing it
> because she wants to find out who put her in a hospital... but explain
> to me why she would hook up with the X-men, the people who were
> responsible for her being in a coma, rotting away in some damp hospital
> in the first place. The enemy of my enemy is my friend... that's a bit
> simplistic, if I were Rogue or any X-man on her team, I would trust her
> about as far as I could throw her.
>
> Mystique is a whole different story, apparantly she's in for the ride
> because Rogue wants to keep an eye on her. That's not exactly the
> person I would want to have near me when my life depends on it. She can
> just as easily keep an eye on Mystique if Raven was placed in a neat
> little box with cameras recording her every move, or one of the million
> other devices the X-men mansion is rich with. Having her be part of
> your team is one of those tactics that you know won't work... I mean
> did they forget X-factor?
>
> Speaking of X-factor... Sabretooth had a leash on, that was set to
> explode or something if he ever got funny ideas... it was foolproof...
> just like those sentinels they injected him with... these people have a
> death wish, at this point I'm just hoping that they get their wish
> fulfilled, because they deserve it for being this stupid.
>
> Iceman is now even more powerful than he has ever been before. His body
> has been destroyed twice now, utterly destroyed, as in he was nothing
> more than vapour... but hey, look he's okay. The first time it took him
> some effort to regain his form, but the second time he did it in the
> midst of a battle AND took out some Children in the process.
>
> The story itself isn't blowing me away either. The X-men defeat the
> serious dark new threat in such a fashion that it look awkwardly easy.
> You get five issues of set-up, and one issue where they take the
> offense and beat the Children in the blink of an eye. With a
> stereotypical warning "We'll be back"... like we haven't heard that
> before.
>
> And how exactly did Rogue deduct that the Children were running on
> solar energy... and no offense, but the line "we have additional power
> stored in our suits" seemed to be tagged on just to explain a potential
> plothole that was discovered after a first read. Apparantly Rogue, the
> super-leader, super-strategic mastermind, is now also the smartest of
> the bunch for coming to a conclusion that's also the correct one based
> on... based on what exactly? A large dish on the deck? Claremont pimps
> his women like there's no tomorrow, but even he didn't exaggerate to
> this extent.
>
> The art is cool, I like Bachallo, I can read Bachallo, but it's not
> exactly consistent. We've seen four different versions of Beast thrown
> onto the pages, and each looks more horrible than the other. Cat... not
> Walrus.
>
> And people keep jumping up and down claiming THIS is the best the X-men
> titles have currently got?
I would have to say the opposite - X-Men is the least enjoyable of the three
X-Men titles at the moment. Carey is yet to impress me with any of his
Marvel work. It's all okay, but nothing stands out. Bachalo I am finding a
hindrance to the story. The one fill-in we've had during Carey's run was a
huge improvement just by way of being readable.
- Nathan P Mahney -
http://www.thecomicnerd.com >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 384
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:20 pm
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"ajsolis@aol.com" <ajsolis.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in
news:1167275641.475376.149180@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> I was surprised they're using lady mastermind, when in general her
> half-sister has been the more sympathetic character.
>
> As for Iceman reforming himself after discorporation, hardly a big
> deal, anyone who has read Age of Apocolypse has known he could do that
> even if he didn't.
He's known at least since X-Men Forever (or whatever that horrible mini
was that turned Toad and Mystique into their movie forms).
--
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain
occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive." --Thomas Jefferson
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying
to defend from without?" --Dwight D. Eisenhower >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 384
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:23 pm
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"The Black Guardian" <blakgard.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in
news:1167302258.963893.315080@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
> I'll agree there, but I've been able to read through the muck that
> passes for art by Bachalo. IMO, the characters in UNCANNY and
> ASTONISHING are acting like idiots, whereas Carey's writing his
> characters, for the most part, intelligently, and that's enough for
> me.
Actually, he's written Rogue better than anyone has written her in
years. She really is a decent character when you take Gamit out of the
mix. It allows her to become a strong character on her own and not
constantly whine about how she can never bang her boyfriend.
--
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain
occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive." --Thomas Jefferson
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying
to defend from without?" --Dwight D. Eisenhower >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Mar 08, 2004 Posts: 407
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:50 pm
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dan McEwen <ferroboy DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in news:4vnp5eF1csfvnU4
@mid.individual.net:
> "The Black Guardian" <blakgard DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote in
> news:1167302258.963893.315080@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
>
>> I'll agree there, but I've been able to read through the muck that
>> passes for art by Bachalo. IMO, the characters in UNCANNY and
>> ASTONISHING are acting like idiots, whereas Carey's writing his
>> characters, for the most part, intelligently, and that's enough for
>> me.
>
> Actually, he's written Rogue better than anyone has written her in
> years. She really is a decent character when you take Gamit out of the
> mix. It allows her to become a strong character on her own and not
> constantly whine about how she can never bang her boyfriend.
Mind that to do so, Carey completely ignored the new guy that Milligen
inserted into Rogue's life. And completely ignored Mystique's reason
for joining the X-Men, which was solely to encourage a relationship
between that guy and Rogue.
Which I'm sure many would argue was for the better, whether pro-Gambit
or not... >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 384
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:41 am
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Billy Bissette <baines.RemoveThis@coastalnet.com> wrote in
news:Xns98A99700E1178whatcholookinat@207.217.125.201:
> Dan McEwen <ferroboy.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in news:4vnp5eF1csfvnU4
> @mid.individual.net:
>
>> "The Black Guardian" <blakgard.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in
>> news:1167302258.963893.315080@a3g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> I'll agree there, but I've been able to read through the muck that
>>> passes for art by Bachalo. IMO, the characters in UNCANNY and
>>> ASTONISHING are acting like idiots, whereas Carey's writing his
>>> characters, for the most part, intelligently, and that's enough for
>>> me.
>>
>> Actually, he's written Rogue better than anyone has written her in
>> years. She really is a decent character when you take Gamit out of
>> the mix. It allows her to become a strong character on her own and
>> not constantly whine about how she can never bang her boyfriend.
>
> Mind that to do so, Carey completely ignored the new guy that
> Milligen
> inserted into Rogue's life. And completely ignored Mystique's reason
> for joining the X-Men, which was solely to encourage a relationship
> between that guy and Rogue.
>
> Which I'm sure many would argue was for the better, whether
> pro-Gambit
> or not...
I think it's for the better. Rogue needs to either a) find a way to
control her powers or b) use a power inhibitor as necessary. And, no,
Leech under the bed isn't an option.
--
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain
occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive." --Thomas Jefferson
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying
to defend from without?" --Dwight D. Eisenhower >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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Since: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 45
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:15 am
Post subject: Re: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 25 Dec 2006 06:52:12 -0800, "Bikon" <Santaroga.Barrier.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
wrote:
I have been pretty bored with both titles lately.
>Mike Carey's X-men is wasted on me and I don't understand why I'm
>seemingly the only one online who can't seem to muster up enough
>sympathy for the title to be so extatic about it. Everywhere I go I see
>people doing backflips and foaming at the mouth gurgling that X-men is
>the absolute best, stories, characters, dialogue, it's all the best
>since forever, and it's the best title one can find these days in the
>X-stables.
>
>I'm reading it, and I'm thinking: What the hell have these people been
>sniffing?
>
>The story so far hasn't blown me away. We're treated to yet another
>ominous race of superbeings who aren't mutants, and who are evil
>through and through. The Children of the Vault have no redeeming
>qualities that allows you to sympathize with them. They want to wipe
>out all mutants and all humans so they can rule the world, because they
>believe it's their destiny. The Neo did it for simple revenge, which is
>something I can understand.
>
>But that's not all, we get a villainous team of superbeings, and only
>two are properly developped, and it really doesn't matter because by
>the end of it, one of those two is dead, and the other is put in a
>state of might be might not be. The rest of the characters ends up dead
>or escapes from the scene, where they remain nothing more but a special
>effect on legs with a spanish name attached to it. You can say a
>hundred things about the Children, but you can't say that they're
>rounded characters or even decent villains. A motive that is less
>inspired than something out of the sixties, and characterisation that
>puts even the dreadful Neo ten step above them.
>
>There is of course our team of heroes. Rogue has assembled a remarkably
>disfunctional gang of misfits, and if you'd ever find yourself on a
>team as hers you'd fear for your life when you turn round a dark
>corner. Lady Mastermind went from villain to hero in a heartbeat, and
>somewhere between panels she developed a relationship with Beast... a
>relationship advanced enough that they might share pleasantries in the
>hallway and call each other by their first name. I know, she's doing it
>because she wants to find out who put her in a hospital... but explain
>to me why she would hook up with the X-men, the people who were
>responsible for her being in a coma, rotting away in some damp hospital
>in the first place. The enemy of my enemy is my friend... that's a bit
>simplistic, if I were Rogue or any X-man on her team, I would trust her
>about as far as I could throw her.
>
>Mystique is a whole different story, apparantly she's in for the ride
>because Rogue wants to keep an eye on her. That's not exactly the
>person I would want to have near me when my life depends on it. She can
>just as easily keep an eye on Mystique if Raven was placed in a neat
>little box with cameras recording her every move, or one of the million
>other devices the X-men mansion is rich with. Having her be part of
>your team is one of those tactics that you know won't work... I mean
>did they forget X-factor?
>
>Speaking of X-factor... Sabretooth had a leash on, that was set to
>explode or something if he ever got funny ideas... it was foolproof...
>just like those sentinels they injected him with... these people have a
>death wish, at this point I'm just hoping that they get their wish
>fulfilled, because they deserve it for being this stupid.
>
>Iceman is now even more powerful than he has ever been before. His body
>has been destroyed twice now, utterly destroyed, as in he was nothing
>more than vapour... but hey, look he's okay. The first time it took him
>some effort to regain his form, but the second time he did it in the
>midst of a battle AND took out some Children in the process.
>
>The story itself isn't blowing me away either. The X-men defeat the
>serious dark new threat in such a fashion that it look awkwardly easy.
>You get five issues of set-up, and one issue where they take the
>offense and beat the Children in the blink of an eye. With a
>stereotypical warning "We'll be back"... like we haven't heard that
>before.
>
>And how exactly did Rogue deduct that the Children were running on
>solar energy... and no offense, but the line "we have additional power
>stored in our suits" seemed to be tagged on just to explain a potential
>plothole that was discovered after a first read. Apparantly Rogue, the
>super-leader, super-strategic mastermind, is now also the smartest of
>the bunch for coming to a conclusion that's also the correct one based
>on... based on what exactly? A large dish on the deck? Claremont pimps
>his women like there's no tomorrow, but even he didn't exaggerate to
>this extent.
>
>The art is cool, I like Bachallo, I can read Bachallo, but it's not
>exactly consistent. We've seen four different versions of Beast thrown
>onto the pages, and each looks more horrible than the other. Cat... not
>Walrus.
>
>And people keep jumping up and down claiming THIS is the best the X-men
>titles have currently got?
>
>I don't get it. I really don't.
> >> Stay informed about: I don't like Carey's X-men... why am I alone? |
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