Critique of a Will Dockery poem

On 14 Apr 2005 10:29:01 -0700, j r sherman <jrst.TakeThisOut@earthlink.net>
wrote:


  >>But, he will repost everything he's ever typed.
 >
 >yes, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
 >
 >but i'm curious as to why he's not responded to my question about how he is able
 >to determine the quality of Ms Renay as a poet by reading only one of her
 >poems....yet then say we can't determine the quality of a poet by reading just
 >one of their poems?


Well, if his past behavior is any indication, he'd probably respond by
saying that he's never posted any comment on Renay's poems, and he's
never read any of Renay's poems, and you're a liar for suggesting that
he's posted any comments on Renay's poems, and then proceed to quote
his comment on Renay's poem as his justification for calling you a
liar for accusing him of commenting on Renay's poem because he never
lies.

Then, he'd say that Renay has never posting any poems here because
she's incapable of writing poetry and he knows this because he's read
all her poems, and he doesn't like them, even though she's never
posted any poems here because she's never written or posted any poems
here, and if she had, he's never read them or commented on them
because he never lies and it's all in the archives, and that makes you
a liar, so there.

Then, he'd proceed to repost everything he's ever typed in the last
twenty years and demand that you *critique* them for him, even though
you can't because you're a liar who has never posted a critique or a
poem here ever, and besides you're a lousy poet who has never posted a
poem because all your poems are shit, even though you've never posted
any poems here, and all your poems suck, so there.

And then, he'll repeat the entire process.

again<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem 

In article <kabt519j44d7saar3snmse4ompt06nj2gp.RemoveThis@4ax.com>, ggamble says...
 >
 >On 14 Apr 2005 10:29:01 -0700, j r sherman <jrst.RemoveThis@earthlink.net>
 >wrote:
 >
 >
   >>>But, he will repost everything he's ever typed.
  >>
  >>yes, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
  >>
  >>but i'm curious as to why he's not responded to my question about how he is able
  >>to determine the quality of Ms Renay as a poet by reading only one of her
  >>poems....yet then say we can't determine the quality of a poet by reading just
  >>one of their poems?
 >
 >
 >Well, if his past behavior is any indication, he'd probably respond by
 >saying that he's never posted any comment on Renay's poems, and he's
 >never read any of Renay's poems, and you're a liar for suggesting that
 >he's posted any comments on Renay's poems, and then proceed to quote
 >his comment on Renay's poem as his justification for calling you a
 >liar for accusing him of commenting on Renay's poem because he never
 >lies.
 >
 >Then, he'd say that Renay has never posting any poems here because
 >she's incapable of writing poetry and he knows this because he's read
 >all her poems, and he doesn't like them, even though she's never
 >posted any poems here because she's never written or posted any poems
 >here, and if she had, he's never read them or commented on them
 >because he never lies and it's all in the archives, and that makes you
 >a liar, so there.
 >
 >Then, he'd proceed to repost everything he's ever typed in the last
 >twenty years and demand that you *critique* them for him, even though
 >you can't because you're a liar who has never posted a critique or a
 >poem here ever, and besides you're a lousy poet who has never posted a
 >poem because all your poems are shit, even though you've never posted
 >any poems here, and all your poems suck, so there.
 >
 >And then, he'll repeat the entire process.
 >
 >again

so the theory that he's pretty much drunk all the time is a valid one.

don't forget that Kris Kristofferson plays a large part in all of this.

love and kisses,

j r sherman


--
------------------------------------------------------------------
"I saw a werewolf drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect."
Warren Zevon
------------------------------------------------------------------<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem 

"the messenjah" <theguyonthebike RemoveThis @veryfast.biz> posted
<1113499527.328429.179240 RemoveThis @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> in
rec.arts.poems on 14 Apr 2005 10:25:27 -0700:

 >
 >
 >j r sherman wrote:
  >> In article <20050414104118.753$77@newsreader.com>, Biljo White
 >says...
   >> >
   >> >"Will Dockery" <shamankickboxer RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
   >> >
   >> >Will - I'll try to get to it in the next few days -- glad you liked
 >my
   >> >previous comments.
   >> >
   >> >Ozzie
  >>
  >> trust me, Ozzie, he didn't like your comments at all.
  >>
  >> what's worse is that he won't follow a single bit of good advice you
 >gave him.
  >> wanting to write good poetry is not what dockery is about.
  >>
  >> you gave him some really good advice, it's too bad he won't follow a
 >word of it.
  >>
  >>
  >> j r sherman
 >
 >you're an asshole, j r.

You're a cracker clown queer who rides a bike.



--
K. A. Cannon
kcannon at insurgent dot org
(change the orgy to org to reply)

Spirituality: The last refuge of a failed human.
Just another way of distracting yourself from who you really are.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem 

in article 1113499527.328429.179240 RemoveThis @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, the
messenjah at theguyonthebike RemoveThis @veryfast.biz wrote on 4/14/05 1:25 PM:

 >
 >
 > j r sherman wrote:
  >> In article <20050414104118.753$77@newsreader.com>, Biljo White
 > says...
   >>>
   >>> "Will Dockery" <shamankickboxer RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
   >>>
   >>> Will - I'll try to get to it in the next few days -- glad you liked
 > my
   >>> previous comments.
   >>>
   >>> Ozzie
  >>
  >> trust me, Ozzie, he didn't like your comments at all.
  >>
  >> what's worse is that he won't follow a single bit of good advice you
 > gave him.
  >> wanting to write good poetry is not what dockery is about.
  >>
  >> you gave him some really good advice, it's too bad he won't follow a
 > word of it.
  >>
  >>
  >> j r sherman
 >
 > you're an asshole, j r.

But you, Mr. Charles Lysaght, had your computer confiscated because you
were a suspect in a Florida child kidnapping and murder case in February.

From February 21, when the girl was first missing, until her murderer was
captured several weeks later, you posted nothing to Usenet from your
computer.

You're a registered child-molester on Usenet and a proven plagiarist and
thief.

Tell us what you had to sign for the authorities, Mr. Lysaght. Did you
promise you wouldn't post your child-molestation stuff?

No more "A Perfect Angel"?

Are you the first poster to alt.arts.poetry.comments who was suspected of
kidnapping and murdering a young girl?

You probably are, and that never goes away, no matter how sorry you are or
who you apologize to.

Never.

Only you can go away.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem 

Stuart Leichter wrote:
  > > Thanks, and hope you'll continue with more re-writes, of me as well
as other
  > > poets... I haven't seen much of that around here since the Tom
Bishop days.
 >
 > Hum the Democratic Party's theme song, Will.

I prefer the Alabama Fight Song these days:

<http://crimson-tide.tusc.net/bama.au>

----
Let the Swanee Tiger scratch,
Let the Yellow Jacket sting,
Let the Georgia Bulldog bite,
Alabama still is right!
And whether win or lose we smile,
For that's Bama's fighting style:
You're Dixie's football pride, Crimson Tide!
A-L-A-B-A-M-A
(chorus)
Yea Alabama! Drown 'em Tide.
Every Bama fan's behind you, hit your stride.
Go teach the Bulldogs to behave,
Send the Yellow Jackets to a watery grave.
And if a man starts to weaken,
That's his shame.
For Bama's pluck and grit have writ her name in Crimson flame.
Fight on, fight on, fight on men.
Remember the Rose Bowl, we'll win then.
Go roll to vict'ry, hit your stride.
You're Dixie's football pride, Crimson Tide!

Words and Music by Ethelred Lundy (Epp) Sykes
Copyright 1926 by The Rammer Jammer, University of Alabama
Provided by Jim McCullars, UA '80
----

I'm certain this helps.

--
"I saw a werewolf drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect." -Warren Zevon

The Netherlands/Shadowville cross cultural exchange
project <http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm>

Autograph Of Zorro" {from *Shadowville Live*}:
<http://www.kannibaal.nl/zorro.mp3><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem 

"Leila" wrote
 > Barbara's Cat wrote:
  > > Leila <leilabee RemoveThis @hotmail.com> said:
  > >
   > > > If you have time, this is one I have a problem with changing,
 > perhaps
   > > > you'll have an idea on where to take it:
 >
 > Non, mon ami-not my poem, I just fucked with it for entertainmen't
 > sake. It's Will Dockery's. Did I leave off his name? Ack!
  > >
  > > What Cat would do: Grab a blank sheet of paper and
  > > start over with a whole different set of words.
  > >
   > > > I played with your poem. It's like connect the dots on a Pollock
   > > > painting. Whee!
   > > > L
   > > > ----
   > > > Tuesday, With Little Spain.
   > > >
   > > > And so
   > > > I am shoved back into this night.
   > > >
   > > > Well, she said,
   > > > she said,
   > > > it was impossible.
   > > > "There is a place, it smoulders, it is the past, dreamtime,
   > > > it wanders these dark corridors of memory."
   > > >
   > > > I sleep so deep that I don't like to sleep,
   > > > my dreams are an undertow.
   > > > I do these things over and over,
   > > > repent, regret but keep doing it.
   > > >
   > > > Spackled with sheet rock mud,
   > > > During the decline and fall of poetry,
   > > > in the summer of sardonic excess,
   > > > I sat with Little Spain on her steps,
   > > > and felt her softness.
   > > >
   > > > Still a sky poet, though tattered and glowing,
   > > > brought down from Blue Territory,
   > > > I wandered by a cold river with her
   > > > in the flaming land of summer.
   > > > Enraptured again, entangled again.
   > > >
   > > > This complete process of remaking we had,
   > > > your mix of pales and shades,
   > > > your disctinctive, mythic self,
   > > > one distinct song of your eyes...
   > > > You will only remake what was,
   > > > And I know it now and then
   > > > and I will know it again.
   > > >
   > > > Look at me, Blue Territory Girl
   > > > Suck the pink honey from the clover.
   > > > Maneuver to the left, and forward,
   > > > into a mud soaked future.
 >
 > Will Dockery

I think that you should include a credit line for yourself, as well, Leila,
since you made substantial changes to the poem, the last verse in
particular... interesting direction you took that to, addressing the Blue
Territory directly like that.

Do you think I should really cut the "lost in the rooms of a crrrrra-zy
house" line?

That line's always a favorite for me at readings, and the audience digs it.

Thanks, and hope you'll continue with more re-writes, of me as well as other
poets... I haven't seen much of that around here since the Tom Bishop days.

--
"I saw a werewolf drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect." -Warren Zevon

The Netherlands/Shadowville cross cultural exchange
project <http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm>

Autograph Of Zorro" {from *Shadowville Live*}:
<http://www.kannibaal.nl/zorro.mp3><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem 

 > Thanks, and hope you'll continue with more re-writes, of me as well as other
 > poets... I haven't seen much of that around here since the Tom Bishop days.

Hum the Democratic Party's theme song, Will.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem 

Barbara's Cat wrote:
 > Leila said:
 >
   > > > > If you have time, this is one I have a problem with changing,
  > > perhaps
   > > > > you'll have an idea on where to take it:
  > >
  > > Non, mon ami-not my poem, I just fucked with it for entertainmen't
  > > sake. It's Will Dockery's. Did I leave off his name? Ack!
 >
 > Yes, but I knew who wrote the piece, Leila. My reply was with regards
to
 > Dockery's asking "where to take it" and I replied as nicely as I
could.

Though your though on where to take it can work in many cases, Cat, it
won't work for this one, since there's no chance of me abandoning it.

So, now that its understood that I have to keep the poem and tinker
with it, do you have any thoughts on what might be done with it?

   > > > What Cat would do: Grab a blank sheet of paper and
   > > > start over with a whole different set of words.
   > > >
   > > > > I played with your poem. It's like connect the dots on a
Pollock
   > > > > painting. Whee!
   > > > > L
   > > > > ----
   > > > > Tuesday, With Little Spain.
   > > > >
   > > > > And so
   > > > > I am shoved back into this night.
   > > > >
   > > > > Well, she said,
   > > > > she said,
   > > > > it was impossible.
   > > > > "There is a place, it smoulders, it is the past, dreamtime,
   > > > > it wanders these dark corridors of memory."
   > > > >
   > > > > I sleep so deep that I don't like to sleep,
   > > > > my dreams are an undertow.
   > > > > I do these things over and over,
   > > > > repent, regret but keep doing it.
   > > > >
   > > > > Spackled with sheet rock mud,
   > > > > During the decline and fall of poetry,
   > > > > in the summer of sardonic excess,
   > > > > I sat with Little Spain on her steps,
   > > > > and felt her softness.
   > > > >
   > > > > Still a sky poet, though tattered and glowing,
   > > > > brought down from Blue Territory,
   > > > > I wandered by a cold river with her
   > > > > in the flaming land of summer.
   > > > > Enraptured again, entangled again.
   > > > >
   > > > > This complete process of remaking we had,
   > > > > your mix of pales and shades,
   > > > > your disctinctive, mythic self,
   > > > > one distinct song of your eyes...
   > > > > You will only remake what was,
   > > > > And I know it now and then
   > > > > and I will know it again.
   > > > >
   > > > > Look at me, Blue Territory Girl
   > > > > Suck the pink honey from the clover.
   > > > > Maneuver to the left, and forward,
   > > > > into a mud soaked future.
  > >
  > > Will Dockery

Such as, would you have cut the "lost in the mirror'd rooms of a
craaaa-zy house", Cat?

I can't see cutting that line, since it works well for both me *and*
the audiences over the years since 1998...

Commentary welcome.

--
"I saw a werewolf drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect." -Warren Zevon

The Netherlands/Shadowville cross cultural exchange
project <http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm>

Autograph Of Zorro" {from *Shadowville Live*}:
<http://www.kannibaal.nl/zorro.mp3><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem 

Barbara's Cat wrote:
 > Will Dockery <will_dockery.RemoveThis@knology.net> said:
 >
  > > Thanks, and hope you'll continue with more re-writes
 >
 > Lazy bastard! Now you're asking others
 > to do your work for you. Pathetic.

Sorry to confuse you, Cat, but I meant the re-write was interesting,
and I'd be interested in seeing more of this type thing, something that
hasn't been done much, if at all, since the Tom Bishop days.

I in no way need or desire anyone "doing my work for me".

--
"I saw a werewolf drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect." -Warren Zevon

The Netherlands/Shadowville cross cultural exchange
project <http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm>

Autograph Of Zorro" {from *Shadowville Live*}:
<http://www.kannibaal.nl/zorro.mp3><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem 

Barbara's Cat wrote:
 > In article <1113507498.026418.232930 DeleteThis @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
 > the messenjah <theguyonthebike DeleteThis @veryfast.biz> said:
 >
  > >
  > >
  > > K. A. Cannon wrote:
   > > > "the messenjah" <theguyonthebike DeleteThis @veryfast.biz> posted
   > > > <1113499527.328429.179240 DeleteThis @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> in
   > > > rec.arts.poems on 14 Apr 2005 10:25:27 -0700:
   > > >
   > > > >
   > > > >
   > > > >j r sherman wrote:
   > > > >> In article <20050414104118.753$77@newsreader.com>, Biljo White
   > > > >says...
   > > > >> >
   > > > >> >"Will Dockery" <shamankickboxer DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
   > > > >> >
   > > > >> >Will - I'll try to get to it in the next few days -- glad you
  > > liked
   > > > >my
   > > > >> >previous comments.
   > > > >> >
   > > > >> >Ozzie
   > > > >>
   > > > >> trust me, Ozzie, he didn't like your comments at all.
   > > > >>
   > > > >> what's worse is that he won't follow a single bit of good
advice
  > > you
   > > > >gave him.
   > > > >> wanting to write good poetry is not what dockery is about.
   > > > >>
   > > > >> you gave him some really good advice, it's too bad he won't
follow
  > > a
   > > > >word of it.
   > > > >>
   > > > >>
   > > > >> j r sherman
   > > > >
   > > > >you're an asshole, j r.
   > > >
   > > > You're a cracker clown queer who rides a bike.
  > >
  > > Remember Kevin, while you're running errands for your Daddy inside
your
  > > filthy factory in New Jersey, I'll be outside at a cafe having
lunch
  > > with a beautiful woman in sunny Florida. Keep that in mind...
 >
 > Yeah, right. Transparent bullshit.

You're just jealous...
 >
 > --
 > Cm~<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem 

ggamble wrote:
 > On 14 Apr 2005 10:29:01 -0700, j r sherman wrote:
 >
   > >>But, he will repost everything he's ever typed.
  > >
  > >yes, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over again.
  > >
  > >but i'm curious as to why he's not responded to my question about
how he is able
  > >to determine the quality of Ms Renay as a poet by reading only one
of her
  > >poems....yet then say we can't determine the quality of a poet by
reading just
  > >one of their poems?
 >
 > Well, if his past behavior is any indication, he'd probably respond
by
 > saying that he's never posted any comment on Renay's poems, and he's
 > never read any of Renay's poems

Wrong, as usual, Gas-fly.

Instead, I posted the link to the Google archives of her poems, where
I've read about a dozen:

<http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&q=author:gundersr%40ccmail.orst.edu+>

This collection of poetry backs up my critique that RSJ is the leading
writer of navel gazing confessional soap opera swipe poetry on Usenet,
a style which is not usually in high regard with your type, Gas-fly.

In fact, even your hated Pandora writes better poetry.

Hope this helps.

--
"I saw a werewolf drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
And his hair was perfect." -Warren Zevon

The Netherlands/Shadowville cross cultural exchange
project <http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm>

Autograph Of Zorro" {from *Shadowville Live*}:
<http://www.kannibaal.nl/zorro.mp3><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem 

"Will Dockery" <shamankickboxer.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1113526952.137808.243450@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
 >

 >
 > In fact, even your hated Pandora writes better poetry.

Why, thank you will. I appreciate that. My poetry has been improving since
I left these newsgroups. My poetry critique group is much better at
critiquing than anyone here was.
 > Hope this helps.

It does. Indeed.

Marg

 > --
 > "I saw a werewolf drinkin' a pina colada at Trader Vic's
 > And his hair was perfect." -Warren Zevon
 >
 > The Netherlands/Shadowville cross cultural exchange
 > project <http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm>
 >
 > Autograph Of Zorro" {from *Shadowville Live*}:
 > <http://www.kannibaal.nl/zorro.mp3>
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem 

In article <1113505372.222689.31450 RemoveThis @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Leila <leilabee RemoveThis @hotmail.com> said:

 > Barbara's Cat wrote:
  > > In article <1113469166.750349.262130 RemoveThis @f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
  > > Leila <leilabee RemoveThis @hotmail.com> said:
  > >
   > > > If you have time, this is one I have a problem with changing,
 > perhaps
   > > > you'll have an idea on where to take it:
 >
 > Non, mon ami-not my poem, I just fucked with it for entertainmen't
 > sake. It's Will Dockery's. Did I leave off his name? Ack!

Yes, but I knew who wrote the piece, Leila. My reply was with regards to
Dockery's asking "where to take it" and I replied as nicely as I could.

  > > What Cat would do: Grab a blank sheet of paper and
  > > start over with a whole different set of words.
  > >
   > > > I played with your poem. It's like connect the dots on a Pollock
   > > > painting. Whee!
   > > > L
   > > >
   > > > ----
   > > > Tuesday, With Little Spain.
   > > >
   > > > And so
   > > > I am shoved back into this night.
   > > >
   > > > Well, she said,
   > > > she said,
   > > > it was impossible.
   > > > "There is a place, it smoulders, it is the past, dreamtime,
   > > > it wanders these dark corridors of memory."
   > > >
   > > > I sleep so deep that I don't like to sleep,
   > > > my dreams are an undertow.
   > > > I do these things over and over,
   > > > repent, regret but keep doing it.
   > > >
   > > > Spackled with sheet rock mud,
   > > > During the decline and fall of poetry,
   > > > in the summer of sardonic excess,
   > > > I sat with Little Spain on her steps,
   > > > and felt her softness.
   > > >
   > > > Still a sky poet, though tattered and glowing,
   > > > brought down from Blue Territory,
   > > > I wandered by a cold river with her
   > > > in the flaming land of summer.
   > > > Enraptured again, entangled again.
   > > >
   > > > This complete process of remaking we had,
   > > > your mix of pales and shades,
   > > > your disctinctive, mythic self,
   > > > one distinct song of your eyes...
   > > > You will only remake what was,
   > > > And I know it now and then
   > > > and I will know it again.
   > > >
   > > > Look at me, Blue Territory Girl
   > > > Suck the pink honey from the clover.
   > > > Maneuver to the left, and forward,
   > > > into a mud soaked future.
 >
 > Will Dockery

--
Cm~<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Critique of a Will Dockery poem