Does the DW have a future?

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:42:11 -0400, A.Reader <anonymously DeleteThis @example.com>
wrote:

> Has anyone else got the uncomfortable feeling that Pterry is
> gradually painting himself into a corner with the changes in the
> DW?
>

>
> Is the DW being gradually, perhaps unintentionally, turned into a
> 21st c. Roundworld, only flatter?
>

I think Pterry himself has been aware of the issue, especially since each
Ankh-Morpork story inevitably involves some innovation which makes the
place rather more 'civilized.' The reason I say that Pterry is aware is
because he found an out in Night Watch- put the mature Vimes into the old
Wild West A-M.

I suppose if it really becomes a problem he could always kill off Vetinari
and let everything go to hell......

--
"There's got to be a better way than fighting," said Mr. Saveloy.
"Yep. Lots of 'em," replied Cohen. "Only none of 'em work."
 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future? 

On Jul 11, 2:39?pm, emma_a....RemoveThis@mac.com (Emma Anne) wrote:
> A.Reader <anonymou....RemoveThis@example.com> wrote:
> > Has anyone else got the uncomfortable feeling that Pterry is
> > gradually painting himself into a corner with the changes in the
> > DW?
>
> Just a comment here. Mr. Pratchett sometimes reads and posts here, and
> so we need to be very careful not to discuss future possibilities in DW.
> You haven't really done that, but it looks like it could go that way, so
> I thought I would mention it.

Why do we need to be careful not to discuss future possibilities???
That makes absolutely no sense to me. I understand the threat of
lawsuits and the possibilities of his "stealing" our ideas... but I
have no doubt that his imagination is amazingly (insanely?) more
fertile than mine.

I could, for example, discuss a future DW novel where Lord Vetinari
has an affair with an intern... cigars, stained dresses and all.
There. It's done. Now if Mr. Pratchett was planning this, he needs
to fear my lawsuit. Unfortunately, I probably won't ever see any
money. If he's having to steal ideas from this group, he's in bad
shape.

If you want to see wild theories (some of which have come true), check
out the Harry Potter groups. Somehow I don't think JK Rowling is
losing sleep over what she read on the internet.
 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future? 

A.Reader wrote:
> Has anyone else got the uncomfortable feeling that Pterry is
> gradually painting himself into a corner with the changes in the
> DW?
>
> Just a bit of anti-spoilage space first
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> In Thud, he wraps up Koom Valley, which I should think will make
> it very hard to do anything much in future with Troll/Dwarf
> rivalry. He's also introduced Devices as highly advanced
> technology rather than mundane [cough] magic. He doesn't seem
> to have anything else to say about our Lancre coven, probably
> because he's turned Granny into a virtual deus ex machina and
> where do you go from there. (I find the loss of the coven to be
> especially saddening, since their stories were in the "bumpkins
> foil city slickers" tradition, with their amiable bickering
> providing both humor and warmth)
>
> Is the DW being gradually, perhaps unintentionally, turned into a
> 21st c. Roundworld, only flatter?

You are underestimating Terry's imagination. Round about book ten, I
though "This cannot go in - he is bound to become formulaic soon". I was
wrong - in the mid-thirties he is still as original as ever. All you can
say is that the development will, as always, not be what you expect.
Hooray. He may drop individual characters or institutions, but I am
confident that the Discworld, as a playground, will last as long as
Terry can write. I mean, we still don't know the answer to the Muntab
question, and there is much of Klatch unexplored, and nothing has yet
happened in Howondaland yet (barring passing elephants) and Esk hasn't
been heard from recently and he has done stamps and money (soon) but
what about the Stock Exchange and the railways (hinted at) and cars, and
there are still the Brown Islands and Nanny's youth is a fertile source
(in more than one sense) and we don't know where Agnes/Perdita is going
to end up and the Carrot/Angua situation is unresolved and...
 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future? 

'Twas on the 11 Jul 2007, that A.Reader
<anonymously.RemoveThis@example.com> did say:

> Has anyone else got the uncomfortable feeling that Pterry
> is gradually painting himself into a corner with the
> changes in the DW?

I think he's avoiding writing the same stories over again,
although I aknowledge that many people seem to see this as the
same thing...

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> In Thud, he wraps up Koom Valley, which I should think will
> make it very hard to do anything much in future with
> Troll/Dwarf rivalry.

Why? And, come to think of it, what has he done with it
before? Thud's the only book where it's more than a background
detail.

> He's also introduced Devices as
> highly advanced technology rather than mundane [cough]
> magic.

Highly advanced and totally mysterious ancient technology.
Much more "magical" than, as you so rightly put it, mundane
magic.

> He doesn't seem to have anything else to say about
> our Lancre coven, probably because he's turned Granny into
> a virtual deus ex machina and where do you go from there.

The Tiffany books.

> Is the DW being gradually, perhaps unintentionally, turned
> into a 21st c. Roundworld, only flatter?

I thought the gag has always been precisely that.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://sesoc.eusa.ed.ac.uk/
"I'm still here with the eyes of a child,
The wonder never grows old."
-"Hearthammer", Runrig
 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future? 

Dave wrote:
> On Jul 11, 2:39?pm, emma_a....DeleteThis@mac.com (Emma Anne) wrote:
>> A.Reader <anonymou....DeleteThis@example.com> wrote:
>>> Has anyone else got the uncomfortable feeling that Pterry is
>>> gradually painting himself into a corner with the changes in the
>>> DW?
>>
>> Just a comment here. Mr. Pratchett sometimes reads and posts
>> here, and so we need to be very careful not to discuss future
>> possibilities in DW. You haven't really done that, but it looks
>> like it could go that way, so I thought I would mention it.
>
> Why do we need to be careful not to discuss future possibilities???
> That makes absolutely no sense to me.

How about "he's kindly asked people not to, or he will avoid reading the
newsgroup, and therefore posting--and we'd all like for that not to happen"?

<shrug>

If you keep at it, you are in for a good, hard, old-fashioned being asked
not to from a lot of readers, possibly an angry-ish response or two, and
maybe a helping of being ignored. Some people will speculate right along
with you. But that's basically the menu. And if people speculate with you,
then as others have said, sometimes he stops hanging around for a while.

So put me down for one "please don't," just because you're running counter
to the conventions of an established order. Free internet and all that,
yeah, I get it. It may not be like shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theater,
but it might be a bit like shouting "oh my god my tarantula got loose!" in
Arachnophobes Anonymous.

It's not that Terry Pratchett needs our ideas, or that a lawsuit would ruin
him, or that a rumor would destroy his fanbase. It's that the whole thing
would be deeply annoying, and he can afford to avoid many things that annoy
him.

I know I certainly take umbrage at even the hint that I'd steal, borrow, or
lean too much on anyone else's thinking, even if there was no way it was
possible that I'd done so--the accusation rankles enough, if you take pride
in your work. Having to prove it's yours is highly distasteful.
 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future? 

Dave wrote:
> On Jul 11, 2:39?pm, emma_a... DeleteThis @mac.com (Emma Anne) wrote:
>> A.Reader <anonymou... DeleteThis @example.com> wrote:
>>> Has anyone else got the uncomfortable feeling that Pterry is
>>> gradually painting himself into a corner with the changes in the
>>> DW?
>> Just a comment here. Mr. Pratchett sometimes reads and posts here, and
>> so we need to be very careful not to discuss future possibilities in DW.
>> You haven't really done that, but it looks like it could go that way, so
>> I thought I would mention it.
>
> Why do we need to be careful not to discuss future possibilities???
> That makes absolutely no sense to me. I understand the threat of
> lawsuits and the possibilities of his "stealing" our ideas... but I
> have no doubt that his imagination is amazingly (insanely?) more
> fertile than mine.
>
> I could, for example, discuss a future DW novel where Lord Vetinari
> has an affair with an intern... cigars, stained dresses and all.
> There. It's done. Now if Mr. Pratchett was planning this, he needs
> to fear my lawsuit. Unfortunately, I probably won't ever see any
> money. If he's having to steal ideas from this group, he's in bad
> shape.

The problem is not his *actually* stealing ideas - as you say, his
imagination is far too good to need to steal. The problem is the
*accusation* of stealing ideas. It is the usual case that mud sticks
when flung, even if it is unjustified. Apparently he actually was
accused of stealing an idea for The Fifth Elephant, but the accuser did
not realise how slow the publication process was, and Terry could prove
that the book was with the publishers before the publishing of the idea
he was alleged to have stolen. However, Terry has made it clear that,
rather than get involved in lawsuits *even if he is entirely in the
right*, if someone publishes (which includes Usenet) an idea which *just
might* overlap a book he is working on, he will dump the book. He
doesn't need the money; we need the books (at least, I do). Therefore,
if you stop Terry writing another DW book, you are screwing *me* over.
It is not *losing* lawsuits that puts Terry off, it is *fighting* them.
He has better things to do with his life.
 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future? 

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:56:28 -0400, Alec Cawley <alec.RemoveThis@spamspam.co.uk>
wrote:

> and the Carrot/Angua situation is unresolved and...

Why, King and Queen of Ankh-Morpork. With their son, the Crown Puppy.....

--
"There's got to be a better way than fighting," said Mr. Saveloy.
"Yep. Lots of 'em," replied Cohen. "Only none of 'em work."
 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future? 

In a speech called
1184197173.705332.149740.TakeThisOut@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
Dave (tprdave@aol.com) spake thusly:

> On Jul 11, 2:39?pm, emma_a....TakeThisOut@mac.com (Emma Anne) wrote:
>> A.Reader <anonymou....TakeThisOut@example.com> wrote:
>>> Has anyone else got the uncomfortable feeling that Pterry is
>>> gradually painting himself into a corner with the changes in the
>>> DW?
>>
>> Just a comment here. Mr. Pratchett sometimes reads and posts here,
>> and so we need to be very careful not to discuss future
>> possibilities in DW. You haven't really done that, but it looks
>> like
>> it could go that way, so I thought I would mention it.
>
> Why do we need to be careful not to discuss future possibilities???
> That makes absolutely no sense to me. I understand the threat of
> lawsuits and the possibilities of his "stealing" our ideas... but I
> have no doubt that his imagination is amazingly (insanely?) more
> fertile than mine.

Read this:
http://www.lspace.org/fandom/afp/timelines/leaving.html

> I could, for example, discuss a future DW novel where Lord Vetinari
> has an affair with an intern... cigars, stained dresses and all.

Discuss a future DW novel? It can happen - f'rinstance, PTerry
sometimes reads out bits of early drafts at Cons and so on (I remember
him reading some of Wintersmithh at DWCon04), so as long as you stick
to what he's read out, that's probably safe. However, speculatively
expanding on that is out, as is positing ideas about what might happen
in a DW novel as-yet unwritten (beyond the bleedin' obvious stuff,
that is, like the Watch will get involved somehow in any story set in
A-M).

> There. It's done. Now if Mr. Pratchett was planning this, he needs
> to fear my lawsuit. Unfortunately, I probably won't ever see any
> money.

You won't - the idea doesn't fit with Vetinari's observed character,
as far as is known the DW doesn't have interns, and the RW version of
those events is somewhat too far in the past to have any satirical
merit by being transferred to DW

> If he's having to steal ideas from this group, he's in bad
> shape.
>
> If you want to see wild theories (some of which have come true),
> check
> out the Harry Potter groups. Somehow I don't think JK Rowling is
> losing sleep over what she read on the internet.

She doesn't need to - the HP books were all planned out in advance,
the entire story-arc scripted from day 1, all seven books with a
structure and characters in place before the first one was published.
PTerry doesn't have that sort of multi-book linear structure to write
within, and consequently there is a much greater possibility that if
we speculate or postulate, we might accidentally stumble over
something PTerry is working on, or is thinking about working on, and
consequently he may decide it's prudent if said thing never gets
written.

--
www.sabremeister.me.uk
www.livejournal.com/users/sabremeister/
Use brian at sabremeister dot me dot uk to reply
"You are writing children's books, you need to be a ruthless killer."
- JK Rowling
 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future? 

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 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future? 

"Dave" <tprdave.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1184197173.705332.149740@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 11, 2:39?pm, emma_a....TakeThisOut@mac.com (Emma Anne) wrote:
>> A.Reader <anonymou....TakeThisOut@example.com> wrote:
>> > Has anyone else got the uncomfortable feeling that Pterry is
>> > gradually painting himself into a corner with the changes in the
>> > DW?
>>
> Why do we need to be careful not to discuss future possibilities???
> That makes absolutely no sense to me. I understand the threat of
> lawsuits and the possibilities of his "stealing" our ideas...

My 2 obols worths.
If I talked about an idea for a book/plot/character here and Terry
"permanantly borrowed" it I'd be well flattered he considered it worth
nicking
 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future? 

Sabremeister Brian wrote:

> She doesn't need to - the HP books were all planned out in advance,
> the entire story-arc scripted from day 1, all seven books with a
> structure and characters in place before the first one was published.
> PTerry doesn't have that sort of multi-book linear structure to write
> within, and consequently there is a much greater possibility that if
> we speculate or postulate, we might accidentally stumble over
> something PTerry is working on, or is thinking about working on, and
> consequently he may decide it's prudent if said thing never gets
> written.

Also PTerry has said that if there is speculation in abp and afp about
possible future story lines, he would feel it necessary to withdraw from
reading and posting to the groups, and we wouldn;t want that to happen.


--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus III
web-site www.mike-stevens.co.uk

Defend the waterways.
Visit the web site www.saveourwaterways.org.uk
 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future? 

Sabremeister Brian wrote:
> In a speech called
> 1184197173.705332.149740.RemoveThis@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups.com,
> Dave (tprdave@aol.com) spake thusly:
>
>> On Jul 11, 2:39?pm, emma_a....RemoveThis@mac.com (Emma Anne) wrote:
>>> A.Reader <anonymou....RemoveThis@example.com> wrote:
>>>> Has anyone else got the uncomfortable feeling that Pterry is
>>>> gradually painting himself into a corner with the changes in the
>>>> DW?
>>> Just a comment here. Mr. Pratchett sometimes reads and posts here,
>>> and so we need to be very careful not to discuss future
>>> possibilities in DW. You haven't really done that, but it looks
>>> like
>>> it could go that way, so I thought I would mention it.
>> Why do we need to be careful not to discuss future possibilities???
>> That makes absolutely no sense to me. I understand the threat of
>> lawsuits and the possibilities of his "stealing" our ideas... but I
>> have no doubt that his imagination is amazingly (insanely?) more
>> fertile than mine.
>
> Read this:
> http://www.lspace.org/fandom/afp/timelines/leaving.html\

But isn't the whole point of that post the fact that we may now posit
whatever we like since Pterry isn't subscribing any more?
 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future? 

Raymond Daley wrote:
> My 2 obols worths.
> If I talked about an idea for a book/plot/character here and Terry
> "permanantly borrowed" it I'd be well flattered he considered it worth
> nicking

We all would, I think. Anyone 'true' enough to have a genuine thought
in that direction, a category which I don't think I'm too generous to
include all the regulars (and an unquantifiable number of lurkers) to
this newsgroup in.

/We/ have sense. Well, more or less the right kind of sense, at more or
less the right times.

On top of everything else, it's the people who already think "You
pinched the appearance of Ponder Stibbons from that of Harry Potter",
despite the chronological impossibility, who would cause the trouble.
 >> Stay informed about: Does the DW have a future?