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Since: Mar 06, 2004
Posts: 118
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:07 pm
Post subject: Dated books
Archived from groups: rec>collecting>books (more info?)
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OB Collecting reference: For those who collect fiction and actually read
it...
One of the things that, for me, adds an element of interest to reading older
novels is the internal evidence of when they were written: references to
objects, prices, practices, and cultural norms and expectations. A classic
example is the ever-rising cost of Archie Goodwin's phone calls in the Nero
Wolfe series by Rex Stout. First he was dropping a nickel, then a dime, then
two bits. If Rex were still cranking them out, I suspect he wouldn't be
dropping coins at all, just remarking about roaming charges.
Sometimes these out-of-date things are critical to the plot, and sometimes
they're just part of the over all background. I still remember thinking,
while reading *Dracula*, that Lucy receiving blood transfusions from three
separate people, without the benefit of matching and typing, would never be
written into a novel today.
Right now, I'm reading *The Third Twin* by Ken Follett, in which a critical
plot element includes a researcher being allowed to comb a medical insurer's
huge data base with her computer programs so she can find subjects for her
research. The book is up to date enough to know the FBI (and possibly other
government groups) would be interested in the program, but apparently not
quite cutting edge (in 1996) to allow for the implications of privacy laws.
Lazy research, or just lack of a crystal ball?
And in *Q is for Quarry*, by Sue Grafton, the characters are lighting up one
after the other in closed indoor spaces, like bars. OK. Still allowed, but
that will be illegal (and dated) in another five years.
Anyone else have favorite (or irritatingly) dated books?
Alice
--
Book collecting terms illustrated. Occasional books for sale.
http://www.mywingsbooks.com/ |
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External
Since: Dec 14, 2005
Posts: 38
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:07 am
Post subject: Re: Dated books [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"my-wings" <my_wings.RemoveThis@TAKEOUTatt.net> wrote:
> OB Collecting reference: For those who collect fiction and actually read
> it...
A novel idea!
I find temperance literature exciting and thrilling, and don't
mind references to telegraphs or that "calling" someone actually
means visiting them in person.
You know, some weird people would say this is "off topic", to
collect books and actually read them, the type of people Orwell
called "first edition snobs". I'm better than that, I'm an old
book snob, that reads vat he collects. |
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External
Since: Apr 30, 2006
Posts: 16
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Dated books [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Walter Traprock wrote:
> "my-wings" <my_wings.DeleteThis@TAKEOUTatt.net> wrote:
>
>> OB Collecting reference: For those who collect fiction and actually read
>> it...
>
> A novel idea!
>
> I find temperance literature exciting and thrilling, and don't
> mind references to telegraphs or that "calling" someone actually
> means visiting them in person.
>
> You know, some weird people would say this is "off topic", to
> collect books and actually read them, the type of people Orwell
> called "first edition snobs". I'm better than that, I'm an old
> book snob, that reads vat he collects.
Ah yes reading books, I seem to remember that. This is why I eschew
"Modern Firsts". There is an infinitesimally small chance there may be
something if literary merit contained therein. My girlfriend has
mastered the skill of barely cracking books and reading. Alas my skills
in reading at the oblique are small.
Doyle is famous for inserting details of Victorian life into Sherlock
Holmes.
Perhaps a need will be found for the annotated Rex Stout.
When I find someone dialing a phone or looking for a phone booth, I have
to ratchet up my suspension of disbelief.
Reminder: Must acquaint my child with mid 20th century communication
technology.
What are we to do with "Hello Central give me no man's land."? >> Stay informed about: Dated books |
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External
Since: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 108
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Dated books [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Walter Traprock wrote:
> "my-wings" <my_wings.DeleteThis@TAKEOUTatt.net> wrote:
>
> > OB Collecting reference: For those who collect fiction and actually read
> > it...
>
> A novel idea!
>
> I find temperance literature exciting and thrilling, and don't
> mind references to telegraphs or that "calling" someone actually
> means visiting them in person.
>
> You know, some weird people would say this is "off topic", to
> collect books and actually read them, the type of people Orwell
> called "first edition snobs". I'm better than that, I'm an old
> book snob, that reads vat he collects.
Most first edition types are sadly limited
collectors, in my view. What interests
me far more than the edition is the book
itself: first, of course, the content, but
also the illustrations, the board coverings,
pictorials, dust-jackets, paper quality,
binding, etc.
Of course, any serious book scout
needs to pay attention to edition, if for
no other reason than to try and find a
very pricey first which can be bought
for a paltry sum and re-sold for
enough to buy many more of whatever
type of book the collector prefers.
I certainly can't say that I have read
every book in my collection. I do
believe in giving the writer a fair chance,
though, so I try to read the first few
pages to see if he or she can entice
me to continue. Being more specific, I
might add that in the early part of the
20th century, it was fairly common for a
publisher to print a novel in the form of
a beautiful book. In the finest instances,
top illustrators of the day were hired to
design the entire book, not just the
plates (and very frequently novels
of that vintage were illustrated, by the
way).
Anyway, the result is that there are,
regarding the era I refer to, what
would strike most readers today
as very trite, tedious novels to be found
within the covers of lovely, highly-
collectible books.
[from the upstairs office] >> Stay informed about: Dated books |
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External
Since: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 108
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Dated books [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Dave wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:07:53 GMT, "my-wings" <my_wings.DeleteThis@TAKEOUTatt.net>
> wrote:
>
> >OB Collecting reference: For those who collect fiction and actually read
> >it...
> >
> >One of the things that, for me, adds an element of interest to reading older
> >novels is the internal evidence of when they were written: references to
> >objects, prices, practices, and cultural norms and expectations. A classic
> >example is the ever-rising cost of Archie Goodwin's phone calls in the Nero
> >Wolfe series by Rex Stout. First he was dropping a nickel, then a dime, then
> >two bits. If Rex were still cranking them out, I suspect he wouldn't be
> >dropping coins at all, just remarking about roaming charges.
> >
> >Sometimes these out-of-date things are critical to the plot, and sometimes
> >they're just part of the over all background. I still remember thinking,
> >while reading *Dracula*, that Lucy receiving blood transfusions from three
> >separate people, without the benefit of matching and typing, would never be
> >written into a novel today.
> >
> >Right now, I'm reading *The Third Twin* by Ken Follett, in which a critical
> >plot element includes a researcher being allowed to comb a medical insurer's
> >huge data base with her computer programs so she can find subjects for her
> >research. The book is up to date enough to know the FBI (and possibly other
> >government groups) would be interested in the program, but apparently not
> >quite cutting edge (in 1996) to allow for the implications of privacy laws.
> >Lazy research, or just lack of a crystal ball?
> >
> >And in *Q is for Quarry*, by Sue Grafton, the characters are lighting up one
> >after the other in closed indoor spaces, like bars. OK. Still allowed, but
> >that will be illegal (and dated) in another five years.
> >
> >Anyone else have favorite (or irritatingly) dated books?
> >
> >Alice
>
> I think that any late 40's to early 60's Science Fiction is a prime
> example of your point. Take E.E. "Doc" Smith's work; Waiting for the
> communication gear to warm up (All those tubes have to get hot, ya
> know). He does make mention of a spotlight on the patrol cars that
> was almost Laser-like.
Nor should we forget that it was the
Dean of Science Fiction himself, Murray
Leinster (Will Jenkins) who, in a short
story from the 1940's called "A Logic
Named Joe" was the first to write about
something actually similar to the PC's
of later decades. The said twist is,
Murry Leinster is pretty much forgotten
today. The visionary who ruled as
"The Dean of Science Fiction" for
several decades deserves better.
(Actually, his many paperbacks are
popular with collectors of today, though
that is more for the cover art than the
author.)
[From the upstairs office.]
I think also that our view of what the future
> will bring is short of the mark, not from looking too far into the
> future, but from not looking in the correct direction. We don't have
> flying cars, but who would have guessed 50 years ago that most people
> would own cars that would reliably do 100 mph all day and with minimal
> care see 100,000 miles besides.
> I enjoy the background to my books, it tells so much about what the
> author was thinking and living through, mostly by accident.
>
> Dave >> Stay informed about: Dated books |
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External
Since: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 108
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Dated books [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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my-wings wrote:
[...]
Your post was one of the best I have read
in this group in long time. Thanks for sharing.
> Anyone else have favorite (or irritatingly) dated books?
I am not so sure that good books ever become
"dated" Take Wells' "War of the Worlds," for
instance. Yes, judged from one standpoint it
is absurd, since we know now there is nothing
on Mars which resembles the civilization which
"invades." On the other hand, most readers
(including myself) consider the novel a literary
masterpiece of the highest order. And while
earth is not going to be invaded by Martians,
most scientists agree that are likely many
advanced civilizations exist in the universe
(or as some scientists suggest now
"universes") so the idea of an invasion
from someplace or other is certainly not a
dated concept.
Also, it seems to be that novels "date"
more for reasons of tone and style than
for anything else.
[From the upstairs office]
>
> Alice
>
>
> --
> Book collecting terms illustrated. Occasional books for sale.
> http://www.mywingsbooks.com/ >> Stay informed about: Dated books |
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External
Since: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 108
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Dated books [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Ted Jones wrote:
> Walter Traprock wrote:
[...]
> When I find someone dialing a phone or looking for a phone booth, I have
> to ratchet up my suspension of disbelief.
It is about like someone going into
a store and asking if anyone knows
where a fax machine might be found
in the vicinity.
>
> Reminder: Must acquaint my child with mid 20th century communication
> technology.
>
> What are we to do with "Hello Central give me no man's land."? >> Stay informed about: Dated books |
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External
Since: Jun 26, 2006
Posts: 17
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:08 am
Post subject: Re: Dated books [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:07:53 GMT, "my-wings" <my_wings.DeleteThis@TAKEOUTatt.net>
wrote:
>OB Collecting reference: For those who collect fiction and actually read
>it...
>
>One of the things that, for me, adds an element of interest to reading older
>novels is the internal evidence of when they were written: references to
>objects, prices, practices, and cultural norms and expectations. A classic
>example is the ever-rising cost of Archie Goodwin's phone calls in the Nero
>Wolfe series by Rex Stout. First he was dropping a nickel, then a dime, then
>two bits. If Rex were still cranking them out, I suspect he wouldn't be
>dropping coins at all, just remarking about roaming charges.
>
>Sometimes these out-of-date things are critical to the plot, and sometimes
>they're just part of the over all background. I still remember thinking,
>while reading *Dracula*, that Lucy receiving blood transfusions from three
>separate people, without the benefit of matching and typing, would never be
>written into a novel today.
>
>Right now, I'm reading *The Third Twin* by Ken Follett, in which a critical
>plot element includes a researcher being allowed to comb a medical insurer's
>huge data base with her computer programs so she can find subjects for her
>research. The book is up to date enough to know the FBI (and possibly other
>government groups) would be interested in the program, but apparently not
>quite cutting edge (in 1996) to allow for the implications of privacy laws.
>Lazy research, or just lack of a crystal ball?
>
>And in *Q is for Quarry*, by Sue Grafton, the characters are lighting up one
>after the other in closed indoor spaces, like bars. OK. Still allowed, but
>that will be illegal (and dated) in another five years.
>
>Anyone else have favorite (or irritatingly) dated books?
>
>Alice
I think that any late 40's to early 60's Science Fiction is a prime
example of your point. Take E.E. "Doc" Smith's work; Waiting for the
communication gear to warm up (All those tubes have to get hot, ya
know). He does make mention of a spotlight on the patrol cars that
was almost Laser-like. I think also that our view of what the future
will bring is short of the mark, not from looking too far into the
future, but from not looking in the correct direction. We don't have
flying cars, but who would have guessed 50 years ago that most people
would own cars that would reliably do 100 mph all day and with minimal
care see 100,000 miles besides.
I enjoy the background to my books, it tells so much about what the
author was thinking and living through, mostly by accident.
Dave >> Stay informed about: Dated books |
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External
Since: Mar 06, 2004
Posts: 118
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Dated books [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Ted Jones" <a.c.swinburne.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:12j2ioegdc3l72f@corp.supernews.com...
> Walter Traprock wrote:
>> "my-wings" <my_wings.DeleteThis@TAKEOUTatt.net> wrote:
>>
>>> OB Collecting reference: For those who collect fiction and actually read
>>> it...
>>
>> A novel idea!
>>
>> I find temperance literature exciting and thrilling, and don't
>> mind references to telegraphs or that "calling" someone actually
>> means visiting them in person.
>>
>> You know, some weird people would say this is "off topic", to collect
>> books and actually read them, the type of people Orwell
>> called "first edition snobs". I'm better than that, I'm an old book
>> snob, that reads vat he collects.
> Ah yes reading books, I seem to remember that. This is why I eschew
> "Modern Firsts". There is an infinitesimally small chance there may be
> something if literary merit contained therein. My girlfriend has mastered
> the skill of barely cracking books and reading. Alas my skills in reading
> at the oblique are small.
>
Ah ha! YOu have managed to bring the subject of reading what's collected
back on topic! I sell a lot of books, but collect in only a few categories.
Fortunately, one category (Milwaukee history) supplies me with books that
have already been read by someone else, and lack that modern-day,
snap-shut-by-themselves-when-new characteristic. But I do have a few modern
authors that I collect as well, and these present me with a dilemma. Read
them and possibly destroy that crisp, stiff, new feel, or hold on to them
and wait until the paper back comes out for my reading pleasure. I've sort
of compromised by "reading on the oblique", but it's not really
satisfactory.
I did pick up one tip at the Antiquarian Book Seminar I attended this
summer, that I have yet to implement: Get some foam, (or was it styrafoam?)
and carve it out to make a 45 degree angle book holder. I think this was so
you could take photographs of open books, but it should work just as well
for reading them. It also might be helpful to go to a fabric store and pick
up some drape weights (these are weights sewn into a strip of fabric) that
you could lay across the open pages. A variety of these should provide
something of the correct weight to keep the book open without damaging the
pages.
Alice
--
Book collecting terms illustrated. Occasional books for sale.
http://www.mywingsbooks.com/ >> Stay informed about: Dated books |
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External
Since: Mar 06, 2004
Posts: 118
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Dated books [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Dave" <myinfois.RemoveThis@private.com> wrote in message
news:tb83j2lgfr3usmd01rfsdldv73ek1m6ngv@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:07:53 GMT, "my-wings" <my_wings.RemoveThis@TAKEOUTatt.net>
> wrote:
>
>>OB Collecting reference: For those who collect fiction and actually read
>>it...
>>
<snip>
>>
>>Anyone else have favorite (or irritatingly) dated books?
>>
>>Alice
>
> I think that any late 40's to early 60's Science Fiction is a prime
> example of your point. Take E.E. "Doc" Smith's work; Waiting for the
> communication gear to warm up (All those tubes have to get hot, ya
> know). He does make mention of a spotlight on the patrol cars that
> was almost Laser-like. I think also that our view of what the future
> will bring is short of the mark, not from looking too far into the
> future, but from not looking in the correct direction. We don't have
> flying cars, but who would have guessed 50 years ago that most people
> would own cars that would reliably do 100 mph all day and with minimal
> care see 100,000 miles besides.
> I enjoy the background to my books, it tells so much about what the
> author was thinking and living through, mostly by accident.
>
Yes! It's that "accidental" element that I find so intriguing. I had a book
at one time called *The Old Brown Dog: Women, Workers, and Vivisection in
Edwardian England* by Coral Lansbury. It was a scholarly work that made
liberal use of works of fiction to illustrate the social movements of the
time. Really very interesting.
I agree that science fiction provides a fruitful field for fictional
elements that don't pan out, but it might make an interesting collecting
niche (I'm sure somebody is already there!) for speculative fiction that
came close to the mark long before it had any right to. That might be hard
to define, though. What's the first book that mentions man going to the
moon? Does it count if they went there by balloon? Hmmmm...
Alice
--
Book collecting terms illustrated. Occasional books for sale.
http://www.mywingsbooks.com/ >> Stay informed about: Dated books |
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