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The Lunar Clan

External


Since: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:00 pm
Post subject: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander,
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>past-films, others (more info?)

http://www.frontpagemag.com/blog/Default.aspx

Obama's Poet Laureate...Is (Let's Face It), Dreadful, Embarassing, a
Zero

I will get nothing but grief for making negative comments about Barack
Obama's pick of a poet laureate, so let me say at the outset that the
president-elect can hardly be faulted for making such a lousy choice,
since Elizabeth Alexander has been lauded from one end of the academic
literary culture to the other. Showered in honors by the current
standard-makers of the high culture, there is no literary voice that I
have been able to detect that has the artistic intelligence or
alternatively the cojones to protest her selection. She is a professor
of poetry at Yale, and has accumulated innumerable literary awards and
earned a place on the short-list for the Pulitzer Prize. It is
precisely this discordance between the high place she has been
accorded as a writer and the incredibly bad writing she has actually
produced that makes this a cultural moment that should not pass
without notice.

I had never heard of Elizabeth Alexander before she received this
appointment, and out of sheer curiosity went up to her website and
read the poems she apparently is most proud of. I am still finding it
hard to believe what I found there. Her writing is tone deaf, bad
prose -- let alone bad poetry -- and teeth grindingly banal. "Poetry I
shouted, Poetry/I screamed, Poetry/changes none of that [i.e, history]/
by what it says/or how it says, none./But a poem is a living
thing...and as life/it is all that can stand/up to violence."

There are three ideas here. The first, that poetry changes nothing, is
a rip-off of one of the most famous lines in modern English poetry --
W.H. Auden's "poetry makes nothing happen" is thus banal. The others
-- that a poem is a living thing and "as life" is the only thing that
"can stand up to violence" are either meaningless or idiotic or both.
If Elizabeth Alexander is a poet, then I have missed a career as a
power forward for the Los Angeles Lakers.

Here is a so-called poem about the Watts Towers, three spires built by
an Italian immigrant namd Simon Rodia who bejewelled them with the
bottoms of coke bottles and other urban detritus creating one of the
most inspiring monuments America has:


Stravinsky in L.A.
In white pleated trousers, peering through green
sunshades, looking for the way the sun is red
noise, how locusts hiss to replicate the sun.
What is the visual equivalent
of syncopation? Rows of seared palms wrinkle
in the heat waves through green glass. Sprinklers
tick, tick, tick. The Watts Towers aim to split
the sky into chroma, spires tiled with rubble
nothing less than aspiration. I've left
minarets for sun and syncopation,
sixty-seven shades of green which I have
counted, beginning: palm leaves, front and back,
luncheon pickle, bottle glass, etcetera.
One day I will comprehend the different
grades of red. On that day I will comprehend
these people, rhythms, jazz, Simon Rodia,
Watts, Los Angeles, aspiration.

"Red noise"? maybe. "locusts hiss to replicate the sun." No way. But
this is the line that really stopped me: "The Watts Towers aim to
split the sky into chroma, spires tiled with rubble nothing less than
aspiration." That second clause is the banality: "tiled rubble" --
yah, that's what the Towers actually are -- well, not exactly. Rubble
is the tile that Rodia used to ornament his cement and wrought iron
spires. But then there are the spires themselves. The
"spires....aspire." Genius.

But what the heck is chroma? I looked the word up to make sure. It's
the Greek word for "color" and also is the name for a "queer literary
magazine" (Wikipedia). The English meaning of the word, however, is
not color but "purity of color," or in something called the Munsell
color system, is used to designate the distance of a color from white
or gray. Ok, so the Watts Towers aim to split the sky into what? Queer
literary magazines? Purity of color? It's not as if the term could
mean split the sky into colors, which is what the poet evidently
intends. (Although I'm not sure what that would mean if it actually
could mean what she wants it to mean. A stained glass window might do
that, but not cement towers embedded with bottle and can bottoms.)

The poem conveys no coherent image -- the writer seems to forget that
she is peering through green sunshades when she perceives the sun as a
noise and seeks the grade of red and tells us that she sees 67 shades
of green etcetera and looks towards the day, when she will through (or
not through) the green sunshade, comprehend the "grades of red" and
also "these people" -- which people exactly? -- whom she aspires to
comprehend along with "aspiration."

This is not poetry. It is gobbledygook, and the high honors accorded
to Elizabeth Alexander are simply multiple ways of announcing that the
academic philistines have prevailed and poetry in America is dead.

Because I have been away from academic literary studies for a long
while, I checked these impressions with a friend who is a professor of
literature. This is what he wrote back:

"Just read a couple of her poems, David. Drivel, but it hits all the
right pieties in the academic culture. Yes, American poetry is in a
dead state. Their only audience is one another. And it's an
institutional thing. All poets now want jobs in the university, and
one of the amazing trends in recent years is the explosion of Creative
Writing majors and MFA programs. In fact, I would say that the only
thing keeping English from slipping into the status of Classics is
freshman comp and Creative Writing majors, most of which require
enrollment in 4 or 5 literary studies classes.

And the creative writing teachers have an advantage. They actually
have some conviction and enthusiasm about literature. For them,
literary study isn't all about race, gender, class, and sexuality, and
unmasking ideology in novels. It's about enjoyment and inspiration and
instruction as well, which is why students flock there (apart from all
of them wanting to be Sylvia Plath and Kerouac)."

And yes, although I didn't mention it, Elizabeth is -- to the point of
banality -- one hundred percent politically correct.

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Baldin Lee Pramer

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Since: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 2



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Dec 23, 4:00 pm, The Lunar Clan wrote:
> http://www.frontpagemag.com/blog/Default.aspx
>
> Obama's Poet Laureate...Is (Let's Face It), Dreadful, Embarassing, a
> Zero
>
>
> But what the heck is chroma? I looked the word up to make sure.

Anyone who doesn't already know this word has no business critiquing
poetry.

Pramer

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T987654321

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Since: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 1



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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I'll feed the Troll: why the f' was this posted to a MOVIE newsgroup?
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Arindam Banerjee

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Since: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 172



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:09 pm
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books (more info?)

So who is better? Please give some lines of a modern poet of a
choice, who in your opinion writes better.
Yes, what you posted as Obama's poet laureate's poetry is amazingly
ridiculous stuff, and thus supremely fit for those who worship
Einstein and Hawking. The leftists are relativists, so the choice
seems appropriate. Because from the now supremely dominant
relativistic approach, sense and nonsense, right or wrong, good or
bad, music or noise, soothing or irritating, charming or disgusting,
etc. have no meanings in themselves. The only real meaning is that
Obama chooses her, and none else! That is the only absolute thing one
cannot get around, no matter how slimily relativistic one is!!!
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Howard Brazee

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Since: Dec 27, 2005
Posts: 56



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:33 pm
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, poetess laureatess for the Inauguration. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>past-films, others (more info?)

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:09:12 -0800 (PST), Baldin Lee Pramer
wrote:

>> But what the heck is chroma? I looked the word up to make sure.
>
>Anyone who doesn't already know this word has no business critiquing
>poetry.

Why not?

Lots of teachers have grade schools critiquing poetry.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison
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tomcervo

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Since: Aug 17, 2008
Posts: 4



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:28 pm
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Dec 23, 8:33�pm, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:09:12 -0800 (PST), Baldin Lee Pramer
>
> wrote:
> >> But what the heck is chroma? I looked the word up to make sure.
>
> >Anyone who doesn't already know this word has no business critiquing
> >poetry.
>
> Why not?
>
> Lots of teachers have grade schools critiquing poetry.

And they explain what "chroma" means to their students too. I had an
Elizabethan poetry class and one of our poems had a series of apparent
nonsense syllables. Then someone tried whistling them, and the
instructor recognized English birdsongs. Four hundred years after he
wrote them, English birds sang in a Michigan college. I doubt Horowitz
would have lasted ten minutes in that class; clearly he had one of
those highly efficient educations crafted to further his career, with
no other considerations. Yet again, words fail him.
As well, I doubt that a "professor" who thinks that Plath and Kerouac
are the icons of young people these days has been in a college
classroom since the first Bush administration.
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Just Me

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Since: May 13, 2008
Posts: 119



(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:20 pm
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>past-films, others (more info?)

On Dec 23, 10:28 pm, tomcervo wrote:
> On Dec 23, 8:33 pm, Howard Brazee wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:09:12 -0800 (PST), Baldin Lee Pramer
>
> > wrote:
> > >> But what the heck is chroma? I looked the word up to make sure.
>
> > >Anyone who doesn't already know this word has no business critiquing
> > >poetry.
>
> > Why not?
>
> > Lots of teachers have grade schools critiquing poetry.
>
> And they explain what "chroma" means to their students too. I had an
> Elizabethan poetry class and one of our poems had a series of apparent
> nonsense syllables. Then someone tried whistling them, and the
> instructor recognized English birdsongs. Four hundred years after he
> wrote them, English birds sang in a Michigan college. I doubt Horowitz
> would have lasted ten minutes in that class; clearly he had one of
> those highly efficient educations crafted to further his career, with
> no other considerations. Yet again, words fail him.
> As well, I doubt that a "professor" who thinks that Plath and Kerouac
> are the icons of young people these days has been in a college
> classroom since the first Bush administration.

This bird clearly has no clue of who David Horowitz is/was, let alone
what an abysmally valueless expression "young people these days"
amounts to. Young people these days or any day are not, and have
never been the bearers of taste or opinion upon which any standard of
literary excellence can be based. What?? Are you kidding? Young
people don't know from baby poop, as the author of this post has ably
demonstrated.

During the 60's, *Ramparts*, the radical New Left magazine for which
Horowitz was publisher/editor, was for the "young people" all the
rage, as I was myself one of its avid readers. Many of the leading
lights (both young and old) of the day were to be found writing for
its pages. When Horowitz writes, "What the heck is chroma" he adds
that he had to look it up *to be sure*: to be sure--GET IT?

Most people, for sake of due diligence would want to look it up to see
if it seems an appropriate usage in such a context. Intelligent and
truly literate people are ALWAYS looking things up because that's how
they get to be intelligent and literate. There is NO other route to
it. Hell! Who wouldn't get a root sense of it from the meaning of
"chromatic" or "chromosphere"? Anyone, including, which is obvioius,
Horowitz.

But for anyone to say . . .

> And they explain what "chroma" means to their students too.

Is such obvious bull that it beggars the imagination to see anyone
would actually dare suggest it. You can't pull that, kid. No, no. No
poetry or literature professor of mine ever did any such thing. Nobody
in literature is instructing anybody on use of the word "chroma". Get
out of here with that!

Just who is this kid trying to kid? Another kid, maybe but nobody
grown up. I've been reading like a madman ever since I was old enough
to hold a book and this is the FIRST time I've ever seen the Greek
root of chromatic used all alone like that, anywhere; and I've read
enough poetry to have it coming out at the ass--which is exactly where
the majority of it is rightly directed like so much gas--and for
containing nothing of an aether for heart, mind or soul.

The word is clearly something she klepped from a thesaurus, because
nobody but manufacturers of paint or physicists and the very rare
artist would have familiarity with such a tone deaf and obtuse usage--
but certainly no true poet. I heard this broad being interviewed on
NPR and I couldn't believe my goddam ears! Poetry to this phony from
the Ivy League baloney is nothing but process and technique. She had
strictly nothing in the way of fire in the belly, no damned content at
all to talk about as driving her 'art'. Both my wife and I were
astonished at the immensity of such vacuity and superficiality in all
she had to say, which was just about precisely NOTHING. Her subject
was Obama and she had NOTHING to say about him.

Is Horowitz a goddam specialist at the goddam Glidden paint factory? A
schtupping professor of physics? No. He's a writer, publisher and
editor of long established credentials as anyone would HAVE to know to
obtain to any critical respect here or anywhere as a writer on writing
subjects.
--
JM http://doo-dads.blogspot.com

"Young men are apt to think themselves wise enough, as drunken men are
apt to think themselves sober enough.
--Lord Chesterfield

http://bobbisoxsnatchers.blogspot.com
http://mackiemesser.zoomshare.com
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Baldin Lee Pramer

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Since: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 2



(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:28 pm
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>past-films, others (more info?)

On Dec 23, 6:33 pm, Howard Brazee wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:09:12 -0800 (PST), Baldin Lee Pramer
>
> wrote:
> >> But what the heck is chroma? I looked the word up to make sure.
>
> >Anyone who doesn't already know this word has no business critiquing
> >poetry.
>
> Why not?
>
> Lots of teachers have grade schools critiquing poetry.

But their opinions would not be published. Oh, wait.... Front Page...
yeah, I guess it would be appropriate for third grade essays.

Pramer
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Just Me

External


Since: May 13, 2008
Posts: 119



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:08 am
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Dec 24, 1:28 am, Baldin Lee Pramer
wrote:
> On Dec 23, 6:33 pm, Howard Brazee wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:09:12 -0800 (PST), Baldin Lee Pramer
>
> > wrote:
> > >> But what the heck is chroma? I looked the word up to make sure.
>
> > >Anyone who doesn't already know this word has no business critiquing
> > >poetry.
>
> > Why not?
>
> > Lots of teachers have grade schools critiquing poetry.
>
> But their opinions would not be published. Oh, wait.... Front Page...
> yeah, I guess it would be appropriate for third grade essays.

In the estimation of one for whom ideology is not distinguished from
knowledge, a silly-ass wisecrack like that must most surely ring with
the dulcet tone of wit.
--
JM http://bobbisoxsnatchers.blogspot.com
http://whosenose.blogspot.com
http://doo-dads.blogspot.com
http://jesusexegesis.blogspot.com
http://mackiemesser.zoomshare.com
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Just Me

External


Since: May 13, 2008
Posts: 119



(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:29 am
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books (more info?)

On Dec 23, 7:09 pm, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> So who is better? Please give some lines of a modern poet of a
> choice, who in your opinion writes better.

Are you kidding my dear Mr. Banerjee? Hell, I write better poetry
than that. And I won a goddam prize for it from Barnes and Noble, so
don't think I'm just pissing on your leg about it, either. Haven't you
for crissake been to my poetry page to see what excellence in verse
can really come to in this age?

Of course not. Because the poetry grass is always greener on the other
side of the brass Ivy League ass.

Here's a poem from the current New Yorker that is by leaps and bounds
better . . .

My Autopsy
by Michael Dickman
December 15, 2008

There is a way;
if we want
into everything

I’ll eat the chicken carbonara and you eat the veal, the olives, the
small and glowing loaves of bread

I’ll eat the waiter, the waitress
floating through the candled dark in shiny black slacks
like water at night

The napkins, folded into paper boats, contain invisible Japanese
poems

You eat the forks,
all the knives, asleep and waiting
on the white tables

What do you love?

[Don't miss the rest] . . .

http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/poetry/2008/12/15/081215po_poem_dickman

> Yes, what you posted as Obama's poet laureate's poetry is amazingly
> ridiculous stuff, and thus supremely fit for those who worship
> Einstein and Hawking.

Jesus-Jumping-Krishna. What a One Note Samba you can be, Sri
Banerjee. Do you ever get off that anti-Einstein hobby-horse of yours?

> The leftists are relativists, so the choice
> seems appropriate. Because from the now supremely dominant
> relativistic approach, sense and nonsense, right or wrong, good or
> bad, music or noise, soothing or irritating, charming or disgusting,
> etc. have no meanings in themselves.

That is totally NOT to be derived from Einstein AT ALL, and there is
no equivalence between moral and physical relativism. If anything,
Einstein's relativity rescued the harmony and unity of Newtonian
physics from the metaphysical relativism of quantum mechanics. Or what
do you think he meant, when he was heard by Bohr to say, "The dear
Lord does not play dice with the universe"? He did not see randomness
and chance for an explanation of anything. A moral relativism of
Sartrian situational ethics is strictly from randomness, accident and
chance; from on the spot calculations of probability, expediency and
pragmatism.

Einstein looked for one law to comprehend all things; in this his
theory and his continuing work was altogether so absolutist as
Newton's physics, the only major departure being that absolute Space
and absolute Time are dethroned and no longer given reverence as
separate entities, but re-established in Spacetime as subordinate to
the one true absolute, namely, "C", the Light.

See?

> The only real meaning is that
> Obama chooses her, and none else! That is the only absolute thing one
> cannot get around, no matter how slimily relativistic one is!!!

Oy! Sounds somehow anti-Semitic to me.
--
JM http://bobbisoxsnatchers.blogspot.com
http://whosenose.blogspot.com
http://doo-dads.blogspot.com
http://jesusexegesis.blogspot.com
http://mackiemesser.zoomshare.com
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tomcervo

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Since: Aug 17, 2008
Posts: 4



(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:57 am
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>past-films, others (more info?)

On Dec 24, 2:20�am, Just Me wrote:
> On Dec 23, 10:28 pm, tomcervo wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 23, 8:33 pm, Howard Brazee wrote:
>
> > > On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:09:12 -0800 (PST), Baldin Lee Pramer
>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> But what the heck is chroma? I looked the word up to make sure.
>
> > > >Anyone who doesn't already know this word has no business critiquing
> > > >poetry.
>
> > > Why not?
>
> > > Lots of teachers have grade schools critiquing poetry.
>
> > And they explain what "chroma" means to their students too. I had an
> > Elizabethan poetry class and one of our poems had a series of apparent
> > nonsense syllables. Then someone tried whistling them, and the
> > instructor recognized English birdsongs. Four hundred years after he
> > wrote them, English birds sang in a Michigan college. I doubt Horowitz
> > would have lasted ten minutes in that class; clearly he had one of
> > those highly efficient educations crafted to further his career, with
> > no other considerations. Yet again, words fail him.
> > As well, �I doubt that a "professor" who thinks that Plath and Kerouac
> > are the icons of young people these days has been in a college
> > classroom since the first Bush administration.
>
> This bird clearly has no clue of who David Horowitz is/was, let alone
> what an abysmally valueless expression "young people these days"
> amounts to. �Young people these days or any day are not, and have
> never been the bearers of taste or opinion upon which any standard of
> literary excellence can be based. What?? Are you kidding? �Young
> people don't know from baby poop, as the author of this post has ably
> demonstrated.
>
> During the 60's, *Ramparts*, the radical New Left magazine for which
> Horowitz was publisher/editor, was for the "young people" all the
> rage, as I was myself one of its avid readers. Many of the leading
> lights (both young and old) of the day were to be found writing for
> its pages. When Horowitz writes, "What the heck is chroma" he adds
> that he had to look it up *to be sure*: to be sure--GET IT?
>
> Most people, for sake of due diligence would want to look it up to see
> if it seems an appropriate usage in such a context. Intelligent and
> truly literate people are ALWAYS looking things up because that's how
> they get to be intelligent and literate. There is NO other route to
> it. Hell! Who wouldn't get a root sense of it from the meaning of
> "chromatic" or "chromosphere"? �Anyone, including, which is obvioius,
> Horowitz.
>
> But for anyone to say . . .
>
> > And they explain what "chroma" means to their students too.
>
> Is such obvious bull that it beggars the imagination to see anyone
> would actually dare suggest it. �You can't pull that, kid. No, no.. No
> poetry or literature professor of mine ever did any such thing. Nobody
> in literature is instructing anybody on use of the word "chroma". Get
> out of here with that!
>
> Just who is this kid trying to kid? �Another kid, maybe but nobody
> grown up. I've been reading like a madman ever since I was old enough
> to hold a book and this is the FIRST time I've ever seen the Greek
> root of chromatic used all alone like that, anywhere; and I've read
> enough poetry to have it coming out at the ass--which is exactly where
> the majority of it is rightly directed like so much gas--and for
> containing nothing of an aether for heart, mind or soul.
>
> The word is clearly something she klepped from a thesaurus, because
> nobody but manufacturers of paint or physicists and the very rare
> artist would have familiarity with such a tone deaf and obtuse usage--
> but certainly no true poet. I heard this broad being interviewed on
> NPR and I couldn't believe my goddam ears! Poetry to this phony from
> the Ivy League baloney is nothing but process and technique. She had
> strictly nothing in the way of fire in the belly, no damned content at
> all to talk about as driving her 'art'. �Both my wife and I were
> astonished at the immensity of such vacuity and superficiality in all
> she had to say, which was just about precisely NOTHING. Her subject
> was Obama and she had NOTHING to say about him.
>
> Is Horowitz a goddam specialist at the goddam Glidden paint factory? A
> schtupping professor of physics? �No. �He's a writer, publisher and
> editor of long established credentials as anyone would HAVE to know to
> obtain to any critical respect here or anywhere as a writer on writing
> subjects.
> --
> JMhttp://doo-dads.blogspot.com
>
> "Young men are apt to think themselves wise enough, as drunken men are
> apt to think themselves sober enough.
> --Lord Chesterfield
>
> http://bobbisoxsnatchers.blogspot.comhttp://mackiemesser.zoomshare.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ah, but I do remember Horowitz from his "Ramparts" days, when he was
an embarrassment to the left the way he is now an adornment on the
right. He may have been the individual Frank Mankeiwicz wrote of as
thus raising the average IQ of both factions. His stupidity got a
young woman killed, and he imagined that it was a political error. The
fact is that his Stalinism became obnoxious to the left and he crossed
over, bringing it with him but ripping the label away; now he fits in
perfectly, screaming "thoughtcrime" at every deviation from a non-
existant norm. I'm anxious to hear what his idea of the national
poetic canon may be--Longfellow, Whittier and Helen Steiner Rice?
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calvin

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Since: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 38



(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:09 am
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On Dec 24, 8:57 am, tomcervo wrote:
> ... now he [Horowitz] fits in
> perfectly, screaming "thoughtcrime" at every deviation from a non-
> existant norm. ...

No, he complains about the left's claims of 'thoughtcrimes',
'hate speech', and any other deviations from what is considered
by the left, especially the academic left, to be 'correct' speech.
Horowitz, no matter what he was when he was a far-left
activist, is now firmly on the side of free speech, and acainst
academic indoctrination of the young.
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calvin

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Since: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 38



(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:15 am
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>movies>past-films, others (more info?)

On Dec 24, 11:19 am, "Kingo Gondo"
wrote:
> Hororwitz is pretty (unintentionally) funny himself, at all times.

He's clumsy in interviews, but he is right in his crusade against
leftist behavior, indoctrination, and propaganda in our universities.
Unfortunately people like you would rather laugh at the messenger
than see the universities become places of free thought and free
speech again, as they were long ago.

Here's where you and tomcervo could learn something about
what is happening in our universities, but of course you won't
bother, preferring to do the easy thing, discredit and demonize
the messengers.

http://www.mindingthecampus.com/index.html
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Kingo Gondo

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Since: Oct 31, 2007
Posts: 7



(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:19 am
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, poetess laureatess for the Inauguration. [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hororwitz is pretty (unintentionally) funny himself, at all times.
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calvin

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Since: Feb 07, 2008
Posts: 38



(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:48 am
Post subject: Re: David Horowitz cracks up at the poetry of Elizabeth Alexander, [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Dec 24, 2:12 pm, The Sun Tribe wrote:
> ...
> But, Horowitz has one problem. He applies radical mindset to just
> about everything. He's changed his views, but he still retains the
> same mentality. So, all liberals are far left radicals in his eyes--
> just as in the 60s, all conservatives were far right lunatics.
> ...

Unfortunately far left radicals are controling thought and speech
in the universities, so as long as Horowitz is focusing on them
it doesn't matter how he views mainstream liberals elsewhere.

The very idea that the left, in the universities no less, has turned
against free thought and free speech, ought to make liberals
look into the matter, just to make sure that the university critics
are wrong. But they don't look into it; they just reject the charge
out of hand, and rationalize their heads-in-the-sand by discrediting
the messengers.
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