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The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov

 
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tsbrueni

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Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 829



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:13 pm
Post subject: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov
Archived from groups: alt>books>isaac-asimov, others (more info?)

In this short story, a historian named Arnold Potterly wants to use the
chronoscope (which operates by recording the movements of neutrinos,
which travel in time) to see whether or not the Carthaginians really
threw babies into a furnace in times of crisis, but the Department of
Chronoscopy won't give him access. Therefore, he persuades Professor of
pseudo optics (which uses pseudo gravity fields to manipulate light)
Jonas Foster to research chonoscopy. Foster gets his uncle Ralph Nimmo
(a science writer) to obtain a book on neutrinics, and combines
neutrinics with pseudo optics to build a portable chronoscope in
Potterly's basement. When Potterly's wife wants to use it to view her
daughter (who had died in a fire many years before), Potterly realizes
that she might discover that he had caused the fire by failing to put
out a cigarette, and informs Department of Chronoscopy chief Thaddeus
Araman about the portable chronoscope. Araman then apprehends Foster
and tries to persuade him to stop his chronoscope activities. During
the discussions, Nimmo comes in to tell Foster to drop his chronoscope
activities. Araman then explains to all three that the government had
been suppressing the chronoscope for the past 50 years because people
could use it to spy on anyone they liked. There would be no more
privacy!!!!! Nimmo then explains that to get Foster off the hook, he
sent details of the portable chronoscope to a half dozen publicity
outlets, more than a day earlier. Those outlets would have spread the
news of portable chronoscopy to numerous physicists, who would tell
others. Nimmo predicts that within a week, 500 people would know how to
build portable chronoscopes. Realizing the impossibility of stopping
the portable chronoscope, Araman releases the three. I shudder at the
resulting loss of privacy!

I wonder how Nimmo sent the chronoscope details. If he used snail mail,
I believe that it might still be possible to stop those details from
spreading by intercepting those pieces of mail at the publicity outlets.
If Nimmo used e-mail, the situation is clearly hopeless.

The original inventor of the chronoscopy devised a way to stop and
record neutrinos. Could the method of stopping neutrinos be used to
shield people from being spied on by chronoscopes?

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tscalfjr1

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Since: Sep 09, 2004
Posts: 8



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:22 pm
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:13:01 -0700, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:

>In this short story, a historian named Arnold Potterly wants to use the
>chronoscope (which operates by recording the movements of neutrinos,
>which travel in time) to see whether or not the Carthaginians really
>threw babies into a furnace in times of crisis, but the Department of
>Chronoscopy won't give him access. Therefore, he persuades Professor of
>pseudo optics (which uses pseudo gravity fields to manipulate light)
>Jonas Foster to research chonoscopy. Foster gets his uncle Ralph Nimmo
>(a science writer) to obtain a book on neutrinics, and combines
>neutrinics with pseudo optics to build a portable chronoscope in
>Potterly's basement. When Potterly's wife wants to use it to view her
>daughter (who had died in a fire many years before), Potterly realizes
>that she might discover that he had caused the fire by failing to put
>out a cigarette, and informs Department of Chronoscopy chief Thaddeus
>Araman about the portable chronoscope. Araman then apprehends Foster
>and tries to persuade him to stop his chronoscope activities. During
>the discussions, Nimmo comes in to tell Foster to drop his chronoscope
>activities. Araman then explains to all three that the government had
>been suppressing the chronoscope for the past 50 years because people
>could use it to spy on anyone they liked. There would be no more
>privacy!!!!! Nimmo then explains that to get Foster off the hook, he
>sent details of the portable chronoscope to a half dozen publicity
>outlets, more than a day earlier. Those outlets would have spread the
>news of portable chronoscopy to numerous physicists, who would tell
>others. Nimmo predicts that within a week, 500 people would know how to
>build portable chronoscopes. Realizing the impossibility of stopping
>the portable chronoscope, Araman releases the three. I shudder at the
>resulting loss of privacy!
>
>I wonder how Nimmo sent the chronoscope details. If he used snail mail,
>I believe that it might still be possible to stop those details from
>spreading by intercepting those pieces of mail at the publicity outlets.
>If Nimmo used e-mail, the situation is clearly hopeless.
>
When I re-read the story not long ago, I mentally assumed that he used
something like Usenet - posting it to some general interest science
groups where it could/would be rapidly dissimilated. E-mail would be
a possibility too.

>The original inventor of the chronoscopy devised a way to stop and
>record neutrinos. Could the method of stopping neutrinos be used to
>shield people from being spied on by chronoscopes?

Maybe, if the chronoscope actually stops the neutrino. The neutrino
records the events by passing through them. If the device stops the
neutrino and holds it until its information is drained then a shield
may be possible. If it only slows down the neutrino long enough to
copy its information, then releases it, I don't think a shield would
be possible.

Didn't the story also make the point that they could only view events
about fifty years or so in the past?

Tom S.

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jonmeltzer

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Since: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: 1



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:57 am
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Jun 17, 5:27 am, schu... DeleteThis @mail.biu.ack.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

> I suggest that you reread the story. You may be surprised when you find out
> what actually transpired. (The "point" of the story is actually that it's
> a rather wicked satire of academic research, with which Asimov was
> involved at the time that he wrote the story.)

More than that. Asimov gave up academic research for science writing
at the time this story was published, and his disillusionment with
academia is very noticeable.
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Mike Stone

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Since: Jul 17, 2005
Posts: 9



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:16 am
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Tom S" <tscalfjr.DeleteThis@cox.net> wrote in message
news:i2o873t8bqfom5fh2e0vq2l7luj1aoas7t@4ax.
com...
>
> Didn't the story also make the point that
they could only view events
> about fifty years or so in the past?
>


No. The inventor was interested mostly in
ancient history, but it worked just as well
for events one millisecond ago - the aspect
the government cared about.
--
Mike Stone - Peterborough, England

I've never understood how people could take
Hitler seriously.

All that tripe about Germans being the
Master race and natural rulers of the world,
when _everybody_ knew that was the English.
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pullo

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Since: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: 8



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:16 am
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Mike Stone" <mwstone RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
news:5dk1suF34k4lcU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Tom S" <tscalfjr RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote in message
> news:i2o873t8bqfom5fh2e0vq2l7luj1aoas7t@4ax.
> com...
>>
>> Didn't the story also make the point that
> they could only view events
>> about fifty years or so in the past?
>>
>
> No. The inventor was interested mostly in
> ancient history, but it worked just as well
> for events one millisecond ago - the aspect
> the government cared about.

IIRC that was the _protagonist's_ interest and it was the use the
government promoted. But that was only to keep people from thinking about
the recent past uses.

I dont recall if the protagonist's new device was any better but the
original device was only goof for 50 years or so in the past. And that was
peachy for the wife whose only interest was their dead child.

I repeat: IIRC.
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schultr

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Since: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 68



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:27 am
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In alt.books.isaac-asimov Mike Stone <mwstone.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote:
: "Tom S" <tscalfjr.TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote in message
: news:i2o873t8bqfom5fh2e0vq2l7luj1aoas7t@4ax.
: com...

:> Didn't the story also make the point that
:> they could only view events about fifty years or so in the past?

: No. The inventor was interested mostly in ancient history, but it worked
: just as well for events one millisecond ago - the aspect
: the government cared about.

I suggest that you reread the story. You may be surprised when you find out
what actually transpired. (The "point" of the story is actually that it's
a rather wicked satire of academic research, with which Asimov was
involved at the time that he wrote the story.)

-----
Richard Schultz schultr.TakeThisOut@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
The gardener plants an evergreen whilst trampling on a flower. . .
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djheydt

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Since: Jan 12, 2004
Posts: 46



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:42 pm
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <f52qda$mnm$1@news.datemas.de>, pullo <pullo004.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>"Mike Stone" <mwstone.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:5dk1suF34k4lcU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Tom S" <tscalfjr.DeleteThis@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:i2o873t8bqfom5fh2e0vq2l7luj1aoas7t@4ax.
>> com...
>>>
>>> Didn't the story also make the point that
>> they could only view events
>>> about fifty years or so in the past?
>>>
>>
>> No. The inventor was interested mostly in
>> ancient history, but it worked just as well
>> for events one millisecond ago - the aspect
>> the government cared about.
>
> IIRC that was the _protagonist's_ interest and it was the use the
>government promoted. But that was only to keep people from thinking about
>the recent past uses.
>
> I dont recall if the protagonist's new device was any better but the
>original device was only goof for 50 years or so in the past. And that was
>peachy for the wife whose only interest was their dead child.

I don't remember anything at all about a fifty-year limit.

The thing had just been invented and the archaeologist (not the
inventor of the machine) was all about "Oh great, now we can take
a look at ancient Carthage and prove my theory that the
Carthaginians didn't really burn their children alive," which was
his particular obsession.

His wife's reaction was more simply "now we can go back five
years and see my baby before she died."

Both of them were reacting to the accidental death of their daughter
by fire, but in different ways.

Both the inventor and the archaeologist were thinking in terms of
looking at the ancient past, till the archaeologist's wife
demanded to use the machine to look at the part of the past
*she* was interested in.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt.DeleteThis@kithrup.com
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pullo

External


Since: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: 8



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:42 pm
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Dorothy J Heydt" <djheydt RemoveThis @kithrup.com> wrote in message
news:JJs8rG.HL@kithrup.com...
> In article <f52qda$mnm$1@news.datemas.de>, pullo <pullo004 RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>"Mike Stone" <mwstone RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:5dk1suF34k4lcU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Tom S" <tscalfjr RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:i2o873t8bqfom5fh2e0vq2l7luj1aoas7t@4ax.
>>> com...
>>>>
>>>> Didn't the story also make the point that
>>> they could only view events
>>>> about fifty years or so in the past?
>>>>
>>>
>>> No. The inventor was interested mostly in
>>> ancient history, but it worked just as well
>>> for events one millisecond ago - the aspect
>>> the government cared about.
>>
>> IIRC that was the _protagonist's_ interest and it was the use the
>>government promoted. But that was only to keep people from thinking about
>>the recent past uses.
>>
>> I dont recall if the protagonist's new device was any better but the
>>original device was only goof for 50 years or so in the past. And that was
>>peachy for the wife whose only interest was their dead child.
>
> I don't remember anything at all about a fifty-year limit.

According to Wiki - not to cross-pollinate from _that_ thread - there was a
time limit: 120 years or so.

FWIW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dead_Past
"As a result of this work, the team makes a series of discoveries. First,
they learn that the government has been suppressing research into
chronoscopy; nevertheless, Foster invents a way to construct a chronoscope
that is much more compact and energy-efficient than that of its pioneer
inventor. Though this discovery delights Potterley, Foster soon proves that
no chronoscope can see more than about one hundred and twenty years into the
past. In any attempt to observe an earlier time, the inevitable noise
totally drowns out the signal. The government's reports of chronoscope
observations of earlier years are thus clear fabrications."


> The thing had just been invented

Not my recollection nor Wiki's:

"Pioneered by a neutrino physicist named Sterbinski many years before, the
chronoscope is now exclusively controlled by the government. When the
government bureaucracy, in the person of bureaucrat Thaddeus Araman, denies
Potterley's request that he be granted chronoscope access, Potterley sets in
train a clandestine research project to build a chronoscope of his own. Two
people assist his quest: a young physics researcher named Jonas Foster and
the physicist's uncle, a professional (i.e., unlicensed by the government)
science writer, Ralph Nimmo"

> and the archaeologist (not the
> inventor of the machine) was all about "Oh great, now we can take
> a look at ancient Carthage and prove my theory that the
> Carthaginians didn't really burn their children alive," which was
> his particular obsession.
>
> His wife's reaction was more simply "now we can go back five
> years and see my baby before she died."
>
> Both of them were reacting to the accidental death of their daughter
> by fire, but in different ways.

True enough, BUT it appears that the ability to view the distant past was
fabricated by the government to misdirect people from thinking about recent
past uses.


> Both the inventor and the archaeologist were thinking in terms of
> looking at the ancient past, till the archaeologist's wife
> demanded to use the machine to look at the part of the past
> *she* was interested in.
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tsbrueni

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Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 829



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Tom S wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:13:01 -0700, Tim Bruening
> <tsbrueni RemoveThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> >In this short story, a historian named Arnold Potterly wants to use the
> >chronoscope (which operates by recording the movements of neutrinos,
> >which travel in time) to see whether or not the Carthaginians really
> >threw babies into a furnace in times of crisis, but the Department of
> >Chronoscopy won't give him access. Therefore, he persuades Professor of
> >pseudo optics (which uses pseudo gravity fields to manipulate light)
> >Jonas Foster to research chonoscopy. Foster gets his uncle Ralph Nimmo
> >(a science writer) to obtain a book on neutrinics, and combines
> >neutrinics with pseudo optics to build a portable chronoscope in
> >Potterly's basement. When Potterly's wife wants to use it to view her
> >daughter (who had died in a fire many years before), Potterly realizes
> >that she might discover that he had caused the fire by failing to put
> >out a cigarette, and informs Department of Chronoscopy chief Thaddeus
> >Araman about the portable chronoscope. Araman then apprehends Foster
> >and tries to persuade him to stop his chronoscope activities. During
> >the discussions, Nimmo comes in to tell Foster to drop his chronoscope
> >activities. Araman then explains to all three that the government had
> >been suppressing the chronoscope for the past 50 years because people
> >could use it to spy on anyone they liked. There would be no more
> >privacy!!!!! Nimmo then explains that to get Foster off the hook, he
> >sent details of the portable chronoscope to a half dozen publicity
> >outlets, more than a day earlier. Those outlets would have spread the
> >news of portable chronoscopy to numerous physicists, who would tell
> >others. Nimmo predicts that within a week, 500 people would know how to
> >build portable chronoscopes. Realizing the impossibility of stopping
> >the portable chronoscope, Araman releases the three. I shudder at the
> >resulting loss of privacy!
> >
> >I wonder how Nimmo sent the chronoscope details. If he used snail mail,
> >I believe that it might still be possible to stop those details from
> >spreading by intercepting those pieces of mail at the publicity outlets.
> >If Nimmo used e-mail, the situation is clearly hopeless.
> >
> When I re-read the story not long ago, I mentally assumed that he used
> something like Usenet - posting it to some general interest science
> groups where it could/would be rapidly dissimilated. E-mail would be
> a possibility too.
>
> >The original inventor of the chronoscopy devised a way to stop and
> >record neutrinos. Could the method of stopping neutrinos be used to
> >shield people from being spied on by chronoscopes?
>
> Maybe, if the chronoscope actually stops the neutrino. The neutrino
> records the events by passing through them. If the device stops the
> neutrino and holds it until its information is drained then a shield
> may be possible. If it only slows down the neutrino long enough to
> copy its information, then releases it, I don't think a shield would
> be possible.
>
> Didn't the story also make the point that they could only view events
> about fifty years or so in the past?

125 years, thanks to the uncertainty principle. This proved Potterly's
suspicion that the accounts of time viewing in the distant past were hoaxes.

I wonder if any professors of Modern history ever applied to use the
Chronoscope. If so, were they approved?
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tsbrueni

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Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 829



(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:21 pm
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Mike Stone wrote:

> "Tom S" <tscalfjr DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote in message
> news:i2o873t8bqfom5fh2e0vq2l7luj1aoas7t@4ax.
> com...
> >
> > Didn't the story also make the point that
> they could only view events
> > about fifty years or so in the past?
> >
>
> No. The inventor was interested mostly in
> ancient history, but it worked just as well
> for events one millisecond ago - the aspect
> the government cared about.

In fact, the chronoscope only goes back 125 years.
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tsbrueni

External


Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 829



(Msg. 11) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:32 pm
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> In article <f52qda$mnm$1@news.datemas.de>, pullo <pullo004.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Mike Stone" <mwstone.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:5dk1suF34k4lcU1@mid.individual.net...
> >>
> >> "Tom S" <tscalfjr.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote in message
> >> news:i2o873t8bqfom5fh2e0vq2l7luj1aoas7t@4ax.
> >> com...
> >>>
> >>> Didn't the story also make the point that
> >> they could only view events
> >>> about fifty years or so in the past?
> >>>
> >>
> >> No. The inventor was interested mostly in
> >> ancient history, but it worked just as well
> >> for events one millisecond ago - the aspect
> >> the government cared about.
> >
> > IIRC that was the _protagonist's_ interest and it was the use the
> >government promoted. But that was only to keep people from thinking about
> >the recent past uses.
> >
> > I dont recall if the protagonist's new device was any better but the
> >original device was only goof for 50 years or so in the past. And that was
> >peachy for the wife whose only interest was their dead child.
>
> I don't remember anything at all about a fifty-year limit.
>
> The thing had just been invented and the archaeologist (not the
> inventor of the machine) was all about "Oh great, now we can take
> a look at ancient Carthage and prove my theory that the
> Carthaginians didn't really burn their children alive," which was
> his particular obsession.

The chronoscope had been invented as a very large machine 50 years before.
Potterly and Foster found a way to build a smaller chronoscope.

> His wife's reaction was more simply "now we can go back five
> years and see my baby before she died."
>
> Both of them were reacting to the accidental death of their daughter
> by fire, but in different ways.
>
> Both the inventor and the archaeologist were thinking in terms of
> looking at the ancient past, till the archaeologist's wife
> demanded to use the machine to look at the part of the past
> *she* was interested in.
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tsbrueni

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Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 829



(Msg. 12) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:35 pm
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

pullo wrote:

> "Dorothy J Heydt" <djheydt RemoveThis @kithrup.com> wrote in message
> news:JJs8rG.HL@kithrup.com...
> > In article <f52qda$mnm$1@news.datemas.de>, pullo <pullo004 RemoveThis @yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>"Mike Stone" <mwstone RemoveThis @aol.com> wrote in message
> >>news:5dk1suF34k4lcU1@mid.individual.net...
> >>>
> >>> "Tom S" <tscalfjr RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote in message
> >>> news:i2o873t8bqfom5fh2e0vq2l7luj1aoas7t@4ax.
> >>> com...
> >>>>
> >>>> Didn't the story also make the point that
> >>> they could only view events
> >>>> about fifty years or so in the past?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> No. The inventor was interested mostly in
> >>> ancient history, but it worked just as well
> >>> for events one millisecond ago - the aspect
> >>> the government cared about.
> >>
> >> IIRC that was the _protagonist's_ interest and it was the use the
> >>government promoted. But that was only to keep people from thinking about
> >>the recent past uses.
> >>
> >> I dont recall if the protagonist's new device was any better but the
> >>original device was only goof for 50 years or so in the past. And that was
> >>peachy for the wife whose only interest was their dead child.
> >
> > I don't remember anything at all about a fifty-year limit.
>
> According to Wiki - not to cross-pollinate from _that_ thread - there was a
> time limit: 120 years or so.
>
> FWIW
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dead_Past
> "As a result of this work, the team makes a series of discoveries. First,
> they learn that the government has been suppressing research into
> chronoscopy; nevertheless, Foster invents a way to construct a chronoscope
> that is much more compact and energy-efficient than that of its pioneer
> inventor. Though this discovery delights Potterley, Foster soon proves that
> no chronoscope can see more than about one hundred and twenty years into the
> past. In any attempt to observe an earlier time, the inevitable noise
> totally drowns out the signal. The government's reports of chronoscope
> observations of earlier years are thus clear fabrications."
>
> > The thing had just been invented
>
> Not my recollection nor Wiki's:
>
> "Pioneered by a neutrino physicist named Sterbinski many years before, the
> chronoscope is now exclusively controlled by the government. When the
> government bureaucracy, in the person of bureaucrat Thaddeus Araman, denies
> Potterley's request that he be granted chronoscope access, Potterley sets in
> train a clandestine research project to build a chronoscope of his own. Two
> people assist his quest: a young physics researcher named Jonas Foster and
> the physicist's uncle, a professional (i.e., unlicensed by the government)
> science writer, Ralph Nimmo"

At the end, Araman explains the true horror of the chronoscope: The fact that it
can be used to spy on people in the PRESENT! No more privacy!
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mscottschillin

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Since: Dec 16, 2003
Posts: 87



(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:45 pm
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"Dorothy J Heydt" <djheydt.TakeThisOut@kithrup.com> wrote in message
news:JJs8rG.HL@kithrup.com...
..
>
> I don't remember anything at all about a fifty-year limit.
>
> The thing had just been invented and the archaeologist (not the
> inventor of the machine) was all about "Oh great, now we can take
> a look at ancient Carthage and prove my theory that the
> Carthaginians didn't really burn their children alive," which was
> his particular obsession.
>
> His wife's reaction was more simply "now we can go back five
> years and see my baby before she died."
>
> Both of them were reacting to the accidental death of their daughter
> by fire, but in different ways.
>
> Both the inventor and the archaeologist were thinking in terms of
> looking at the ancient past, till the archaeologist's wife
> demanded to use the machine to look at the part of the past
> *she* was interested in.


There was a limit, though. The thing turned out to be useless for studying
ancient history.
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tsbrueni

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Since: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: 5



(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:45 pm
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Tim Bruening wrote:
> Tom S wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:13:01 -0700, Tim Bruening
> > <tsbrueni DeleteThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >
> > >In this short story, a historian named Arnold Potterly wants to use the
> > >chronoscope (which operates by recording the movements of neutrinos,
> > >which travel in time) to see whether or not the Carthaginians really
> > >threw babies into a furnace in times of crisis, but the Department of
> > >Chronoscopy won't give him access. Therefore, he persuades Professor of
> > >pseudo optics (which uses pseudo gravity fields to manipulate light)
> > >Jonas Foster to research chonoscopy. Foster gets his uncle Ralph Nimmo
> > >(a science writer) to obtain a book on neutrinics, and combines
> > >neutrinics with pseudo optics to build a portable chronoscope in
> > >Potterly's basement. When Potterly's wife wants to use it to view her
> > >daughter (who had died in a fire many years before), Potterly realizes
> > >that she might discover that he had caused the fire by failing to put
> > >out a cigarette, and informs Department of Chronoscopy chief Thaddeus
> > >Araman about the portable chronoscope. Araman then apprehends Foster
> > >and tries to persuade him to stop his chronoscope activities. During
> > >the discussions, Nimmo comes in to tell Foster to drop his chronoscope
> > >activities. Araman then explains to all three that the government had
> > >been suppressing the chronoscope for the past 50 years because people
> > >could use it to spy on anyone they liked. There would be no more
> > >privacy!!!!! Nimmo then explains that to get Foster off the hook, he
> > >sent details of the portable chronoscope to a half dozen publicity
> > >outlets, more than a day earlier. Those outlets would have spread the
> > >news of portable chronoscopy to numerous physicists, who would tell
> > >others. Nimmo predicts that within a week, 500 people would know how to
> > >build portable chronoscopes. Realizing the impossibility of stopping
> > >the portable chronoscope, Araman releases the three. I shudder at the
> > >resulting loss of privacy!
> > >
> > >I wonder how Nimmo sent the chronoscope details. If he used snail mail,
> > >I believe that it might still be possible to stop those details from
> > >spreading by intercepting those pieces of mail at the publicity outlets.
> > >If Nimmo used e-mail, the situation is clearly hopeless.
> > >
> > When I re-read the story not long ago, I mentally assumed that he used
> > something like Usenet - posting it to some general interest science
> > groups where it could/would be rapidly dissimilated. E-mail would be
> > a possibility too.
> >
> > >The original inventor of the chronoscopy devised a way to stop and
> > >record neutrinos. Could the method of stopping neutrinos be used to
> > >shield people from being spied on by chronoscopes?
> >
> > Maybe, if the chronoscope actually stops the neutrino. The neutrino
> > records the events by passing through them. If the device stops the
> > neutrino and holds it until its information is drained then a shield
> > may be possible. If it only slows down the neutrino long enough to
> > copy its information, then releases it, I don't think a shield would
> > be possible.
> >
> > Didn't the story also make the point that they could only view events
> > about fifty years or so in the past?
>
> 125 years, thanks to the uncertainty principle. This proved Potterly's
> suspicion that the accounts of time viewing in the distant past were hoaxes.
>
> I wonder if any professors of Modern history ever applied to use the
> Chronoscope. If so, were they approved?

If I were a historian and didn't know the truth about the
Chronoscope,
I would apply to use it to view the Resurrection of Jesus!!!!!
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tsbrueni

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Since: Jun 17, 2007
Posts: 5



(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:53 pm
Post subject: Re: The Dead Past By Isaac Asimov [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Tim Bruening wrote:
> In this short story, a historian named Arnold Potterly wants to use the
> chronoscope (which operates by recording the movements of neutrinos,
> which travel in time) to see whether or not the Carthaginians really
> threw babies into a furnace in times of crisis, but the Department of
> Chronoscopy won't give him access.

Today, Potterly would probably consider suing the Division of
Chronoscopy for
refusing him access to the Chronoscope! Perhaps he could get other
historians
to join him in a class action suit!
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