Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ?

Steuard Jensen <sbjensen.DeleteThis@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in article
<2jTed.2$45.513@news.uchicago.edu>...
 > To the best of my knowledge, there aren't any substantial differences
 > in the text of LotR between the US and the UK editions. Different
 > editions have often suffered from different typographical errors, but
 > even that is being reduced by the use of computers (it's very possible
 > that the US and UK texts are now produced from the same electronic
 > text). I don't think there's ever been a wholesale "translation" of
 > LotR into American English as was done for Harry Potter.
 >
 > So go ahead and buy that anniversary edition; it sounds pretty spiffy.
 > For more information on US editions, you can visit
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lotr_editions.html</font" target="_blank">http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lotr_editions.html</font</a>>
 >
 > (There's also a much less comprehensive British edition page on that
 > site, if you're interested.)

Many thanks Steuard

Neil
 >
   > Steuard Jensen
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ? 

sbjensen.RemoveThis@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) wrote in news:2jTed.2$45.513
@news.uchicago.edu:


 > text). I don't think there's ever been a wholesale "translation" of
 > LotR into American English as was done for Harry Potter.

Sorry for going off-topic, but this surprised me. Is this common practise
with UK english children books? I'm not by far an scholar in english
language, but I've read the UK edition of Harry Potter's books and frankly,
though many tipically british words and expressions are used, I didn't read
anything that made me think that american kids would have troube
understanding (or enjoying). Only a humble opinion of mine, of course.

What do you mean by wholesale translation? Perhaps a cheaper edition of the
book? Sorry for my ingnorance, I know the meaning of wholesale but I don't
understand what wholesale edition means.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ? 

Javier Caselli <javicaselliNOSPAM RemoveThis @yahoo.es> wrote:
 > sbjensen RemoveThis @midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) wrote
 >
  >> text). I don't think there's ever been a wholesale "translation" of
  >> LotR into American English as was done for Harry Potter.

I'd be interested to hear about this as well. Though I'd be more
interested in the etymology of wholesale...

<snip>

 > What do you mean by wholesale translation? Perhaps a cheaper edition
 > of the book? Sorry for my ingnorance, I know the meaning of wholesale
 > but I don't understand what wholesale edition means.

One meaning of wholesale is related to retail: "The sale of goods in
large quantity for resale."

It can also mean on a large scale without discrimination: "wholesale
destruction."

I'm not quote sure how the two meanings are related. The thing they have
in common is describing a large scale (of trading or other things). I
think this latter sense (indiscriminate and 'large scale' or complete)
is what Steuard meant. I took his sentence to mean that there was an
attempt to translate the _whole_ book, rather then just selecting the
British phrases for translation. In other words a complete translation,
rather a partial translation (if there could be such a thing).

Maybe a better phrase is: whole scale?

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ? 

"Steuard Jensen" <sbjensen.TakeThisOut@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in
rec.arts.books.tolkien:
 > I don't think there's ever been a wholesale "translation" of
 >LotR into American English as was done for Harry Potter.

The American editions seem to use American quotes. Do the English
editions do the same, or do they use English quotes?

"I'm quoting in American," said the Yank.

'I'm quoting in English', said the Pom.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://OakRoadSystems.com" target="_blank">http://OakRoadSystems.com</a>
Tolkien FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://Tolkien.slimy.com" target="_blank">http://Tolkien.slimy.com</a> (Steuard Jensen's site)
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Encyclopedia of Arda: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm</a>
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 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ? 

Javier Caselli wrote:

 >Sorry for going off-topic, but this surprised me. Is this common practise
 >with UK english children books? I'm not by far an scholar in english
 >language, but I've read the UK edition of Harry Potter's books and frankly,
 >though many tipically british words and expressions are used, I didn't read
 >anything that made me think that american kids would have troube
 >understanding (or enjoying). Only a humble opinion of mine, of course.


There is a brief discussion of it at
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.uwire.com/content/topae082003003.html" target="_blank">http://www.uwire.com/content/topae082003003.html</a>
and some discussion as well at
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.electricpenguin.com/blatherings/lotr/archives/00000066.html" target="_blank">http://www.electricpenguin.com/blatherings/lotr/archives/00000066.html</a>
in the comments section (thanks to Steuard Jensen, by the way,
for posting a link to this blog a few months ago.)

Steve Morrison<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ? 

geirroeth.DeleteThis@aol.com (Geirroeth) wrote in
news:20041024231520.22172.00002491@mb-m18.aol.com:

 > There is a brief discussion of it at
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.uwire.com/content/topae082003003.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.uwire.com/content/topae082003003.html</font</a>>
 > and some discussion as well at
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.electricpenguin.com/blatherings/lotr/archives/00000066.html</font" target="_blank">http://www.electricpenguin.com/blatherings/lotr/archives/00000066.html</font</a>>
 > in the comments section (thanks to Steuard Jensen, by the way,
 > for posting a link to this blog a few months ago.)
 >

Very interesting, I didn't know anything about this, I agree with Ms.
Kimberly Noles' article, I really think it would be healthier for the
kids to ask their parents/educators if they come up with an expresion
they don't understand instead of "translating" those expresions
directly, that only makes the kids throw away a beatiful chance of
getting acquainted with another way of speaking their own language.

Thanks for your reply.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ? 

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown.TakeThisOut@fastmail.fm> wrote:
 > "Steuard Jensen" <sbjensen.TakeThisOut@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote in
 > rec.arts.books.tolkien:
  >> I don't think there's ever been a wholesale "translation" of
  >>LotR into American English as was done for Harry Potter.
 >
 > The American editions seem to use American quotes. Do the English
 > editions do the same, or do they use English quotes?
 >
 > "I'm quoting in American," said the Yank.
 >
 > 'I'm quoting in English', said the Pom.

`I'm quoting like this,' said Harry.

This last is the quoting style used in the Harry Potter books I have
(which are all UK editions.)

--
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr1013.TakeThisOut@student.uu.se<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ? 

Stan Brown wrote:

 > The American editions seem to use American quotes. Do the English
 > editions do the same, or do they use English quotes?

They can vary, I've two copies of 'The Hobbit', both UK third edition but
from different printers. One uses proper quotes, the other Yank ones.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ? 

"Javier Caselli" <javicaselliNOSPAM DeleteThis @yahoo.es> wrote in message
news:Xns958CE304E6C5Cjavicaselliyahooes@130.133.1.4...
 > sbjensen DeleteThis @midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) wrote in news:2jTed.2$45.513
 > @news.uchicago.edu:
 >
  > > text). I don't think there's ever been a wholesale "translation" of
  > > LotR into American English as was done for Harry Potter.
 >
 > Sorry for going off-topic, but this surprised me. Is this common practise
 > with UK english children books?

It does happen; I once read a book by a British author (Clive Eagleton)
which appeared to have been 'translated' into American, even for the British
market ('color', 'burglarized' for 'burgled' etc.).
Perhaps American publishers have a low opinion of their own people?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ? 

In article <Xns958CE304E6C5Cjavicaselliyahooes.DeleteThis@130.133.1.4>,
javicaselliNOSPAM.DeleteThis@yahoo.es says...
 >
 > Sorry for going off-topic, but this surprised me. Is this common practise
 > with UK english children books?

I don't know about that, but in the first three books, things were
change like "pitch" to "field", "lift" to "elevator", and of course,
the most infamous "Philosopher's Stone" to "Sorcerer's Stone".

By the fourth or fifth books, they were so in demand that these
changes are no longer made, at least in my observation.

Michelle
Flutist
--
Drift on a river, That flows through my arms
Drift as I'm singing to you
I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm
And holding you, I'm smiling, too
Here in my arms, Safe from all harm
Holding you, I'm smiling, too
-- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ? 

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:39:55 +0100, "Simon J. Rowe" <srowe RemoveThis @mose.org.uk> wrote:

 >Stan Brown wrote:
 >
  >> The American editions seem to use American quotes. Do the English
  >> editions do the same, or do they use English quotes?
 >
 >They can vary, I've two copies of 'The Hobbit', both UK third edition but
 >from different printers. One uses proper quotes, the other Yank ones.

The style of quotation marks depends on the house style of the publishers.
Whatever style is in according to their house style constitutes "proper"
quotes.


--
Steve Hayes
E-mail: hayesmstw RemoveThis @hotmail.com
Web: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.geocities.com/hayesstw/stevesig.htm" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/hayesstw/stevesig.htm</a>
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 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ? 

"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in
rec.arts.books.tolkien:
 >On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 12:39:55 +0100, "Simon J. Rowe" <srowe.TakeThisOut@mose.org.uk> wrote:
 >
  >>Stan Brown wrote:
  >>
   >>> The American editions seem to use American quotes. Do the English
   >>> editions do the same, or do they use English quotes?
  >>
  >>They can vary, I've two copies of 'The Hobbit', both UK third edition but
  >>from different printers. One uses proper quotes, the other Yank ones.
 >
 >The style of quotation marks depends on the house style of the publishers.
 >Whatever style is in according to their house style constitutes "proper"
 >quotes.

I'm with Simon on this one. "Proper" quotes are those that Tolkien
used. If my publisher has translated quotes I have to wonder what
else has been changed when the text was reset.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://OakRoadSystems.com" target="_blank">http://OakRoadSystems.com</a>
Tolkien FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://Tolkien.slimy.com" target="_blank">http://Tolkien.slimy.com</a> (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html" target="_blank">http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html</a>
FAQ of the Rings: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm</a>
Encyclopedia of Arda: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm</a>
more FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ? 

"Javier Caselli" <javicaselliNOSPAM DeleteThis @yahoo.es> wrote in message
news:Xns958CE304E6C5Cjavicaselliyahooes@130.133.1.4...
 > sbjensen DeleteThis @midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) wrote in news:2jTed.2$45.513
 > @news.uchicago.edu:
 >
 >
  >> text). I don't think there's ever been a wholesale "translation" of
  >> LotR into American English as was done for Harry Potter.
 >
 > Sorry for going off-topic, but this surprised me. Is this common practise
 > with UK english children books? I'm not by far an scholar in english
 > language, but I've read the UK edition of Harry Potter's books and
 > frankly,
 > though many tipically british words and expressions are used, I didn't
 > read
 > anything that made me think that american kids would have troube
 > understanding (or enjoying). Only a humble opinion of mine, of course.
 >
 > What do you mean by wholesale translation? Perhaps a cheaper edition of
 > the
 > book?

Ever read 1984? Probably similar to doing a Newsspeak translation. Destroy
words. Destroy meaning. Making dissident thought impossible.

Nah, I imagine it's just a dumbing-down. I know for a fact that the
vocabulary size of your average American university-age student is far lower
than your average Brit of the same demographic.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Difference in text between American & UK editions of LotR ?