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Drogo and Bilbo

  
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sebastos_mark_

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Since: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:35 pm
Post subject: Drogo and Bilbo
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)
Frodo's mom and dad drowned on the river Baranduin. Isn't this
similar to the Smeagol Deagol story that Gandalf produced for Frodo in
Bag End before Gandalf gets captured and Frodo waits and waits for
him? I was wondering if anyone else noted the similarities. Plus
Bilbo was known to fib about The Ring's acquirement.

mark tiangco `/~'

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jimmuller

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Since: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 23



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Drogo and Bilbo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 27 Mar 2004 15:35:15 -0800, sebastos_mark_tiangco RemoveThis @yahoo.com
(wilbur07) wrote:

 >Frodo's mom and dad drowned on the river Baranduin. Isn't this
 >similar to the Smeagol Deagol story...?

Huh? How is it similar other than that it involves a river? Neither
Deagol nor Smeagol drowned accidentally (or to use Hobbitspeak,
drownded). Frodo's parents' deaths were viewed as suspicious by the
inhabitants of Hobbiton but there seems to be nothing absurd about
those deaths beyond the fact that boats were involved.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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jsolinas7

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Since: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 72



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:06 am
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sebastos_mark_tiangco DeleteThis @yahoo.com (wilbur07) wrote in message news:

 > Frodo's mom and dad drowned on the river Baranduin. Isn't this
 > similar to the Smeagol Deagol story that Gandalf produced for Frodo in
 > Bag End before Gandalf gets captured and Frodo waits and waits for
 > him? I was wondering if anyone else noted the similarities. Plus
 > Bilbo was known to fib about The Ring's acquirement.

But neither Deagol nor Smeagol drowned. I think the similarity
doesn't go much beyond both taking place at a river.


-- FotW

Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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mightymartianc1

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Since: Mar 08, 2004
Posts: 678



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:25 am
Post subject: Re: Drogo and Bilbo [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:20:13 -0500,
Jim Muller <jimmuller.TakeThisOut@noplace.com> wrote:
 > On 27 Mar 2004 15:35:15 -0800, sebastos_mark_tiangco.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com
 > (wilbur07) wrote:
 >
  >>Frodo's mom and dad drowned on the river Baranduin. Isn't this
  >>similar to the Smeagol Deagol story...?
 >
 > Huh? How is it similar other than that it involves a river? Neither
 > Deagol nor Smeagol drowned accidentally (or to use Hobbitspeak,
 > drownded). Frodo's parents' deaths were viewed as suspicious by the
 > inhabitants of Hobbiton but there seems to be nothing absurd about
 > those deaths beyond the fact that boats were involved.

Ah, but some say she pushed him, and he pulled her in after him.

--
Aaron Clausen
mightymartianca.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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jimmuller

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Since: Feb 11, 2004
Posts: 23



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:25 am
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On 28 Mar 2004 01:25:00 GMT, AC <mightymartianca.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
 >Ah, but some say she pushed him, and he pulled her in after him.

It still has no similarity to Smeagol/Deagol. In any case, as far as
we can tell, nobody in Hobbiton *really* knew what happened. Some say
they just ate too much...

Bill wrote:
 >Neither Smeagol nor Deagol drownded *period*.

You're right, of course, I think. In the movie Smeagol strangled
Deagol, but at this moment I really can't remember how Deagol died in
the book other than that Smeagol killed him. He may have been
forcibly drowned by Smeagol, which is why I used the word
"accidentally". I guess it's time to pull the book out again!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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omeallymd

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Since: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 323



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:43 am
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Jim Muller wrote:
 > On 27 Mar 2004 15:35:15 -0800, sebastos_mark_tiangco.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com
 > (wilbur07) wrote:
 >
  >> Frodo's mom and dad drowned on the river Baranduin. Isn't this
  >> similar to the Smeagol Deagol story...?
 >
 > Huh? How is it similar other than that it involves a river? Neither
 > Deagol nor Smeagol drowned accidentally (or to use Hobbitspeak,
 > drownded).

Neither Smeagol nor Deagol drownded *period*.
--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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omeallymd

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Since: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 323



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:00 am
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Jim Muller wrote:


 > Bill wrote:
  >> Neither Smeagol nor Deagol drownded *period*.
 >
 > You're right, of course, I think. In the movie Smeagol strangled
 > Deagol

Then that, at least, PJ got right. Wink
--
Bill

"Wise fool"
Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS
-- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not--<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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a_real_america

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Since: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 146



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 11:38 am
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"Flame of the West" <jsolinas7.TakeThisOut@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:29ddc11e.0403272206.2f58d5b3@posting.google.com...
 > sebastos_mark_tiangco.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com (wilbur07) wrote in message news:
 >
  > > Frodo's mom and dad drowned on the river Baranduin. Isn't this
  > > similar to the Smeagol Deagol story that Gandalf produced for Frodo in
  > > Bag End before Gandalf gets captured and Frodo waits and waits for
  > > him? I was wondering if anyone else noted the similarities. Plus
  > > Bilbo was known to fib about The Ring's acquirement.
 >
 > But neither Deagol nor Smeagol drowned. I think the similarity
 > doesn't go much beyond both taking place at a river.
 >
 >

But Ulmo still reside in the waters of ME and he...um.....well...nevermind.
Surprised)


T.A.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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the_stan_brown

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Since: Jan 01, 2004
Posts: 748



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 11:39 am
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"wilbur07" <sebastos_mark_tiangco DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in
rec.arts.books.tolkien:
 >Frodo's mom and dad drowned on the river Baranduin. Isn't this
 >similar to the Smeagol Deagol story that Gandalf produced for Frodo in
 >Bag End before Gandalf gets captured and Frodo waits and waits for
 >him? I was wondering if anyone else noted the similarities.

What similarities? Other than the fact that both happened on a
river, I see only differences.

Sméagol/Déagol:
  shiny thing on river bottom
  murder by strangulation
  only one dead

Frodo's parents:
  no shiny thing
  death by misadventure
  both dead

Which similarities do you see?

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://OakRoadSystems.com" target="_blank">http://OakRoadSystems.com</a>
Tolkien FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://Tolkien.slimy.com" target="_blank">http://Tolkien.slimy.com</a> (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html" target="_blank">http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html</a>
FAQ of the Rings: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm</a>
Encyclopedia of Arda: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm</a>
more FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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the_stan_brown

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Since: Jan 01, 2004
Posts: 748



(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 11:43 am
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"Jim Muller" <jimmuller.TakeThisOut@noplace.com> wrote in
rec.arts.books.tolkien:
 >In the movie Smeagol strangled
 >Deagol, but at this moment I really can't remember how Deagol died in
 >the book other than that Smeagol killed him.

One of the things Jackson got right. From LotR I 2:

' "Oh, are you indeed, my love," said Sméagol; and he caught Déagol
by the throat and strangled him, because the gold looked so bright
and beautiful. Then he put the ring on his finger.'

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://OakRoadSystems.com" target="_blank">http://OakRoadSystems.com</a>
Tolkien FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://Tolkien.slimy.com" target="_blank">http://Tolkien.slimy.com</a> (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html" target="_blank">http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html</a>
FAQ of the Rings: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm</a>
Encyclopedia of Arda: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm</a>
more FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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sebastos_mark_

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Since: Mar 24, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 11) Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:43 am
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Stan Brown <the_stan_brown RemoveThis @fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:<MPG.1ad09f9922aab42c98c0cf RemoveThis @news.odyssey.net>...
 > "wilbur07" <sebastos_mark_tiangco RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in
 > rec.arts.books.tolkien:
  > >Frodo's mom and dad drowned on the river Baranduin. Isn't this
  > >similar to the Smeagol Deagol story that Gandalf produced for Frodo in
  > >Bag End before Gandalf gets captured and Frodo waits and waits for
  > >him? I was wondering if anyone else noted the similarities.
 >
 > What similarities? Other than the fact that both happened on a
 > river, I see only differences.
 >
 > Sméagol/Déagol:
  > shiny thing on river bottom
  > murder by strangulation
  > only one dead
 >
 > Frodo's parents:
  > no shiny thing
  > death by misadventure
  > both dead
 >
 > Which similarities do you see?
 >

Hello Stan!

The similarities are in the water phobia of hobbits, Deagol somewhat
like Drogo, Gollum not having accounted in detail all the places he
had been, and on top of that a sneaky liar.

Later on in Mirkwood he became known as the baby killer climbing in
through windows to squish the infants of Men, Goblins, and/or Elves.

Let's say Bilbo felt guilty for the deaths of Primula and Drogo [was
it Primula?] because he had known all the time of Smeagol/Gollum and
his modus operandi of sneak and squish or tug down into the river of
one misfortunately named hobbit -- Drogo *Baggins*. Then adopting
Frodo [that is, Bilbo wasn't gay] makes much much more sense.

 > --
 > Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://OakRoadSystems.com</font" target="_blank">http://OakRoadSystems.com</font</a>>
 > Tolkien FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://Tolkien.slimy.com" target="_blank">http://Tolkien.slimy.com</a> (Steuard Jensen's site)
 > Tolkien letters FAQ:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html</font" target="_blank">http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > FAQ of the Rings: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm</font" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > Encyclopedia of Arda: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm</font" target="_blank">http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > more FAQs: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm</font" target="_blank">http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm</font</a>>

hth

Mark Tiangco `/~'<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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csernica

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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 31



(Msg. 12) Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:46 am
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AC wrote:

 > Ah, but some say she pushed him, and he pulled her in after him.

Hey, now. There isn't no call to go talking of pushing and pulling.
Boats are quite tricky enough for those that sit still!

-- Chris Csernica<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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