|
Related Topics:
| Altered Realities: Dwarfs In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis - Chapter 13, "How The Dwarfs Refused To Be Taken In". King Tirian has gone through a stable door to find a paradise that's much bigger than the stable. In there, he found Digory and Polly from The Nephew, Peter, Susan, Lucy, Eustace, and Jill.
Dwarfs In The Last Battle Spoiler Qs - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Chapter 7, About King Tirian shows the Dwarfs that they have been fooled by a fake Aslan. Most of the Dwarfs decide that they don't want anything more to do with Aslan or Narnian..
The Last Battle Qs - Chapter 7, About King Tirian shows the Dwarfs that they have been fooled by a fake Aslan. Most of the Dwarfs decide that they don't want anything more to do with Aslan or Narnian Kings. They say "The Dwarfs are for the IMHO,..
Why didn't Susan appear in the Last Battle? - Forgive me if this is a regular question that comes up, but I've dropped by here, having been sick in bed with the flu for the last few days and reading all seven Narnia books pretty much back to back, not having looked at them since I was at primary..
The Last Battle Spoiler Qs - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Chapter 7, About King Tirian shows the Dwarfs that they have been fooled by a fake Aslan. Most of the Dwarfs decide that they don't want anything more to do with Aslan or Narnian..
|
|
|
Next: CS Lewis: hermione vrs susan
|
| Author |
Message |
External
Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 812
|
(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:36 am
Post subject: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis, others (more info?)
|
|
|
Chapter 13, "How The Dwarfs Refused To Be Taken In". King Tirian has
gone through a stable door to find a paradise that's much bigger than
the stable. In there, he found Digory and Polly from The Magician's
Nephew, Peter, Susan, Lucy, Eustace, and Jill. In the Stable Paradise
are also 11 Dwarfs, who can't perceive the paradise. To them, it looks
like an ordinary stable. They can't see anything in that stable because
the stable is enclosed and its night outside. Also, they can only smell
what would be in a stable. This is because those Dwarfs had ceased to
believe in Aslan or anything else, due to having been fooled by the fake
Aslan.
These Dwarfs appear to be in a reality which is slightly altered from
the
reality inhabited by King Tirian and the other Friends of Narnia. The
Dwarfs are in a "Stable Reality" while Tirian et al are in a "Paradise
Reality". However, "Paradise Reality" people can talk to the Dwarfs,
physically move the Dwarfs, and put solid objects in front of the Dwarfs
that the Dwarfs can pick up and even eat. However, the Dwarfs can only
perceive sounds, smells, sights, and touches in terms of the "Stable
Reality"
They can't see the light of the Paradise Reality. Also, if they
intersect
the wall of the stable in their reality, the wall is solid to them.
However, that same wall is nonexistent to people in the "Paradise
Reality",
and they can see the light, smell the flowers, and eat the fruit of
Paradise.
Examples below:
Tirian swung one Dwarf out of the Dwarf circle, but he darted back to
the circle, rubbing his nose as if he had bumped into the stable wall.
What would have happened if Tirian had tried to take a Dwarf outside the
imaginary stable? Would the Dwarf have gotten crushed on the stable
wall?
Aslan conjured a glorious feast for the Dwarfs, but the food tastes like
stable food to the Dwarfs. What would have happened if Aslan had
conjured a bonfire for the Dwarfs with 1) Paradise wood, or 2) Wood from
the Narnia outside the stable. Would the Dwarfs have been able to see
the fire? |
|
| Back to top |
|
 | |
External
Since: Jun 25, 2005
Posts: 83
|
(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:36 am
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis (more info?)
|
|
|
You have a good imagination and interesting ideas. You might be good at
writing fan-fiction. Have you looked at Narnia fan-fiction sites? Or Xanth
fan-fic?
Bree
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:36:51 -0800, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni.TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
/snip/
>Tirian swung one Dwarf out of the Dwarf circle, but he darted back to
>the circle, rubbing his nose as if he had bumped into the stable wall.
>What would have happened if Tirian had tried to take a Dwarf outside the
>imaginary stable? Would the Dwarf have gotten crushed on the stable
>wall?
>
>Aslan conjured a glorious feast for the Dwarfs, but the food tastes like
>stable food to the Dwarfs. What would have happened if Aslan had
>conjured a bonfire for the Dwarfs with 1) Paradise wood, or 2) Wood from
>the Narnia outside the stable. Would the Dwarfs have been able to see
>the fire? |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 812
|
(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:43 am
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis, others (more info?)
|
|
|
Bree wrote:
> You have a good imagination and interesting ideas. You might be good at
> writing fan-fiction. Have you looked at Narnia fan-fiction sites? Or Xanth
> fan-fic?
No to your 1st Q, yes to your 2nd Q.
What do you think of the Dwarfs' reality being different from Tirian's
reality?
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:36:51 -0800, Tim Bruening
> <tsbrueni.TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> /snip/
>
> >Tirian swung one Dwarf out of the Dwarf circle, but he darted back to
> >the circle, rubbing his nose as if he had bumped into the stable wall.
> >What would have happened if Tirian had tried to take a Dwarf outside the
> >imaginary stable? Would the Dwarf have gotten crushed on the stable
> >wall?
> >
> >Aslan conjured a glorious feast for the Dwarfs, but the food tastes like
> >stable food to the Dwarfs. What would have happened if Aslan had
> >conjured a bonfire for the Dwarfs with 1) Paradise wood, or 2) Wood from
> >the Narnia outside the stable. Would the Dwarfs have been able to see
> >the fire? >> Stay informed about: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Le.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 25, 2005
Posts: 83
|
(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:43 am
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis (more info?)
|
|
|
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:43:58 -0800, Tim Bruening
<tsbrueni.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
>
>Bree wrote:
>
>> You have a good imagination and interesting ideas. You might be good at
>> writing fan-fiction. Have you looked at Narnia fan-fiction sites? Or Xanth
>> fan-fic?
>
>No to your 1st Q, yes to your 2nd Q.
>
>What do you think of the Dwarfs' reality being different from Tirian's
>reality?
I don't think Lewis's books are as heavy-duty as Xanth. Have you written
Xanth fan-fiction? Perhaps you should try. Or if Narnia fan-fic is allowed,
maybe you could use your ideas there.
Bree
-- >> Stay informed about: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Le.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jan 25, 2005
Posts: 5
|
(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis, others (more info?)
|
|
|
Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> Tirian swung one Dwarf out of the Dwarf circle, but he darted back to
> the circle, rubbing his nose as if he had bumped into the stable wall.
> What would have happened if Tirian had tried to take a Dwarf outside the
> imaginary stable? Would the Dwarf have gotten crushed on the stable
> wall?
The obvious answer is that Lewis didn't think about that. Retconing
this issue, there could be several conflict resolution protocols: Dwarf
brain lose synchronisation - contradicing event is not processed by
cortex, but primitive brain functions still working. Another - dwarf
perception of event edited by some external power or internal
subroutine, so event does not contradict his reality. >> Stay informed about: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Le.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 25, 2005
Posts: 83
|
(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis (more info?)
|
|
|
On 25 Jan 2006 02:17:43 -0800, "serg271" <aocratfx.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Tim Bruening wrote:
>>
>> Tirian swung one Dwarf out of the Dwarf circle, but he darted back to
>> the circle, rubbing his nose as if he had bumped into the stable wall.
>> What would have happened if Tirian had tried to take a Dwarf outside the
>> imaginary stable? Would the Dwarf have gotten crushed on the stable
>> wall?
>
>The obvious answer is that Lewis didn't think about that. Retconing
>this issue, there could be several conflict resolution protocols: Dwarf
> brain lose synchronisation - contradicing event is not processed by
>cortex, but primitive brain functions still working.
Hm, remember the Cat who came out no longer a Talking Cat?
>Another - dwarf
>perception of event edited by some external power or internal
>subroutine, so event does not contradict his reality.
That seems more likely: go through the non-existent wall with no damage,
but not believe it had happened. The difficulty there would be why he felt
like he'd bumped his nose, but that could be psychosomatic.
Bree >> Stay informed about: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Le.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 118
|
(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:53 am
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis, others (more info?)
|
|
|
serg271 wrote:
> Tim Bruening wrote:
> >
> > Tirian swung one Dwarf out of the Dwarf circle, but he darted back to
> > the circle, rubbing his nose as if he had bumped into the stable wall.
> > What would have happened if Tirian had tried to take a Dwarf outside the
> > imaginary stable? Would the Dwarf have gotten crushed on the stable
> > wall?
>
> The obvious answer is that Lewis didn't think about that. Retconing
> this issue, there could be several conflict resolution protocols: Dwarf
> brain lose synchronisation - contradicing event is not processed by
> cortex, but primitive brain functions still working. Another - dwarf
> perception of event edited by some external power or internal
> subroutine, so event does not contradict his reality.
Curious. I found that something of the sort actually happened in my
life. As an atheist I was literaly unable to wrap my mind around the
concept of God, I could not concieve of any possible mode of existence,
or imagine any way He could act in the world. When I became a Christian
again I could see His hand EVERYWHERE. I don't think it is just tied to
adopting a set of beliefs though, sensitivity to the Holy Spirit is not
that common, I have found, even among Christians. John Wesley, for
example, had been a minister for some time before it came to him. For
me it was much like the stable analogy, I wonder if Lewis was relating
the same sort of experience?
Daryl >> Stay informed about: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Le.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 38
|
(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
Tim Bruening wrote:
> Chapter 13, "How The Dwarfs Refused To Be Taken In". King Tirian has
> gone through a stable door to find a paradise that's much bigger than
> the stable. In there, he found Digory and Polly from The Magician's
> Nephew, Peter, Susan, Lucy, Eustace, and Jill. In the Stable Paradise
> are also 11 Dwarfs, who can't perceive the paradise.
This is their essential problem. They cannot be forced to preceive
Paradise. They cannot be forced to accept happiness.
> To them, it looks like an ordinary stable.
True, but not the essential problem.
> They can't see anything in that stable because
> the stable is enclosed and its night outside.
True, but not the essential problem.
> Also, they can only smell what would be in a stable.
True, but not the essential problem.
> This is because those Dwarfs had ceased to
> believe in Aslan or anything else, due to having been fooled by the fake
> Aslan.
Probably a bit more complex than that, I think. But whatever the
reason, they are choosing to not accept paradise.
> These Dwarfs appear to be in a reality which is slightly altered from
> the reality inhabited by King Tirian and the other Friends of Narnia. The
> Dwarfs are in a "Stable Reality" while Tirian et al are in a "Paradise
> Reality".
They choose to perceive a Stable Reality, but it they want to reject
Paradise -- if they choose to be miserable -- that is hardly their only
option.
> However, "Paradise Reality" people can talk to the Dwarfs,
> physically move the Dwarfs, and put solid objects in front of the Dwarfs
> that the Dwarfs can pick up and even eat. However, the Dwarfs can only
> perceive sounds, smells, sights, and touches in terms of the "Stable
> Reality" They can't see the light of the Paradise Reality.
Or, they choose not to perceive these things.
> Also, if they intersect
> the wall of the stable in their reality, the wall is solid to them.
> However, that same wall is nonexistent to people in the "Paradise
> Reality", and they can see the light, smell the flowers, and eat the fruit of
> Paradise.
>
> Examples below:
>
> Tirian swung one Dwarf out of the Dwarf circle, but he darted back to
> the circle, rubbing his nose as if he had bumped into the stable wall.
> What would have happened if Tirian had tried to take a Dwarf outside the
> imaginary stable? Would the Dwarf have gotten crushed on the stable
> wall?
I doubt the dwarf would get crushed. How precisely the Dwarf would
perceive the experience does not really matter. All we need know is
that he would almost certainly perceive it negatively. He would
grouse, complain and insist on being miserable.
> Aslan conjured a glorious feast for the Dwarfs, but the food tastes like
> stable food to the Dwarfs. What would have happened if Aslan had
> conjured a bonfire for the Dwarfs with 1) Paradise wood, or 2) Wood from
> the Narnia outside the stable. Would the Dwarfs have been able to see
> the fire?
The essence of your question is: Would it be possible somehow to
create a fire that the Dwarfs could perceive (and perhaps thereby
realize, by its light, that they were not in a Stable)? The answer is
that it does not really matter, because even if one can convince them
they are not in a stable, they could not be forced to be happy. Their
problem is not that they are determined to be in a stable, but rather
that they are not willing to accept paradise (at least not yet).
Even if they could see the fire, they would distrust it, fear it, and
be miserable about it. >> Stay informed about: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Le.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 12
|
(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 25, 2005
Posts: 83
|
(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:50 am
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis (more info?)
|
|
|
An interesting take. I suppose you've read THE GREAT DIVORCE?
Bree
On 26 Jan 2006 17:27:41 -0800, nystulc.DeleteThis@cs.com wrote:
>Tim Bruening wrote:
>> Chapter 13, "How The Dwarfs Refused To Be Taken In". King Tirian has
>> gone through a stable door to find a paradise that's much bigger than
>> the stable. In there, he found Digory and Polly from The Magician's
>> Nephew, Peter, Susan, Lucy, Eustace, and Jill. In the Stable Paradise
>> are also 11 Dwarfs, who can't perceive the paradise.
>
>This is their essential problem. They cannot be forced to preceive
>Paradise. They cannot be forced to accept happiness.
>
>> To them, it looks like an ordinary stable.
>
>True, but not the essential problem.
>
>> They can't see anything in that stable because
>> the stable is enclosed and its night outside.
>
>True, but not the essential problem.
>
>> Also, they can only smell what would be in a stable.
>
>True, but not the essential problem.
>
>> This is because those Dwarfs had ceased to
>> believe in Aslan or anything else, due to having been fooled by the fake
>> Aslan.
>
>Probably a bit more complex than that, I think. But whatever the
>reason, they are choosing to not accept paradise.
>
>> These Dwarfs appear to be in a reality which is slightly altered from
>> the reality inhabited by King Tirian and the other Friends of Narnia. The
>> Dwarfs are in a "Stable Reality" while Tirian et al are in a "Paradise
>> Reality".
>
>They choose to perceive a Stable Reality, but it they want to reject
>Paradise -- if they choose to be miserable -- that is hardly their only
>option.
>
>> However, "Paradise Reality" people can talk to the Dwarfs,
>> physically move the Dwarfs, and put solid objects in front of the Dwarfs
>> that the Dwarfs can pick up and even eat. However, the Dwarfs can only
>> perceive sounds, smells, sights, and touches in terms of the "Stable
>> Reality" They can't see the light of the Paradise Reality.
>
>Or, they choose not to perceive these things.
>
>> Also, if they intersect
>> the wall of the stable in their reality, the wall is solid to them.
>> However, that same wall is nonexistent to people in the "Paradise
>> Reality", and they can see the light, smell the flowers, and eat the fruit of
>> Paradise.
>>
>> Examples below:
>>
>> Tirian swung one Dwarf out of the Dwarf circle, but he darted back to
>> the circle, rubbing his nose as if he had bumped into the stable wall.
>> What would have happened if Tirian had tried to take a Dwarf outside the
>> imaginary stable? Would the Dwarf have gotten crushed on the stable
>> wall?
>
>I doubt the dwarf would get crushed. How precisely the Dwarf would
>perceive the experience does not really matter. All we need know is
>that he would almost certainly perceive it negatively. He would
>grouse, complain and insist on being miserable.
>
>> Aslan conjured a glorious feast for the Dwarfs, but the food tastes like
>> stable food to the Dwarfs. What would have happened if Aslan had
>> conjured a bonfire for the Dwarfs with 1) Paradise wood, or 2) Wood from
>> the Narnia outside the stable. Would the Dwarfs have been able to see
>> the fire?
>
>The essence of your question is: Would it be possible somehow to
>create a fire that the Dwarfs could perceive (and perhaps thereby
>realize, by its light, that they were not in a Stable)? The answer is
>that it does not really matter, because even if one can convince them
>they are not in a stable, they could not be forced to be happy. Their
>problem is not that they are determined to be in a stable, but rather
>that they are not willing to accept paradise (at least not yet).
>
>Even if they could see the fire, they would distrust it, fear it, and
>be miserable about it. >> Stay informed about: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Le.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 38
|
(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Mar 15, 2005
Posts: 118
|
(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis, others (more info?)
|
|
|
Gene Ward Smith wrote:
> darylgene DeleteThis @aol.com wrote:
>
> > For
> > me it was much like the stable analogy, I wonder if Lewis was relating
> > the same sort of experience?
>
> I think the scene probably has more to do with Lewis's familiarity with
> Plato.
hmm. I don't recall Plato addressing differential perception, it could
be Lewis was talking about archetypical reality verses percieved
reality but as has been noted it appears to have more to do with the
choices being made. Just speculation anyway. 
Daryl >> Stay informed about: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Le.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Dec 07, 2004
Posts: 38
|
(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
|
|
darylgene DeleteThis @aol.com wrote:
> Curious. I found that something of the sort actually happened in my
> life. As an atheist I was literaly unable to wrap my mind around the
> concept of God, I could not concieve of any possible mode of existence,
> or imagine any way He could act in the world. When I became a Christian
> again I could see His hand EVERYWHERE. I don't think it is just tied to
> adopting a set of beliefs though, sensitivity to the Holy Spirit is not
> that common, I have found, even among Christians. John Wesley, for
> example, had been a minister for some time before it came to him. For
> me it was much like the stable analogy, I wonder if Lewis was relating
> the same sort of experience?
Quite possibly. I'm not sure if you were aware, but Lewis WAS an
atheist, who later turned Christian.
I suspect Lewis is writing from a very personal vantage-point. I think
this is most apparent in TIL WE HAVE FACES. See especially, Lewis'
afterword, where he discusses why he was inspired to incorporate the
element of spiritual "blindness" onto the myth of Cupid and Psyche --
he says that almost from first reading, it struck him that that was how
it really must have been. >> Stay informed about: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Le.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Jun 25, 2005
Posts: 83
|
(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis (more info?)
|
|
|
On 27 Jan 2006 14:09:44 -0800, nystulc RemoveThis @cs.com wrote:
>darylgene@aol.com wrote:
>> Curious. I found that something of the sort actually happened in my
>> life. As an atheist I was literaly unable to wrap my mind around the
>> concept of God, I could not concieve of any possible mode of existence,
>> or imagine any way He could act in the world. When I became a Christian
>> again I could see His hand EVERYWHERE. I don't think it is just tied to
>> adopting a set of beliefs though, sensitivity to the Holy Spirit is not
>> that common, I have found, even among Christians. John Wesley, for
>> example, had been a minister for some time before it came to him. For
>> me it was much like the stable analogy, I wonder if Lewis was relating
>> the same sort of experience?
>
>Quite possibly. I'm not sure if you were aware, but Lewis WAS an
>atheist, who later turned Christian.
In his autobiography, SURPRISED BY JOY, he said that during that period his
imagination was full of myth and fantasy literature -- it was only in
theory that he didn't believe it was literally true. This seems the
opposite of the dwarfs experience.
>I suspect Lewis is writing from a very personal vantage-point. I think
>this is most apparent in TIL WE HAVE FACES. See especially, Lewis'
>afterword, where he discusses why he was inspired to incorporate the
>element of spiritual "blindness" onto the myth of Cupid and Psyche --
>he says that almost from first reading, it struck him that that was how
>it really must have been.
I remember him saying that the sister couldn't see the palace. But I don't
remember him relating that to his own atheist period.
Bree
-- >> Stay informed about: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Le.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
External
Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 812
|
(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Lewis [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>cs-lewis, others (more info?)
|
|
|
nystulc.RemoveThis@cs.com wrote:
> Tim Bruening wrote:
> > Chapter 13, "How The Dwarfs Refused To Be Taken In". King Tirian has
> > gone through a stable door to find a paradise that's much bigger than
> > the stable. In there, he found Digory and Polly from The Magician's
> > Nephew, Peter, Susan, Lucy, Eustace, and Jill. In the Stable Paradise
> > are also 11 Dwarfs, who can't perceive the paradise.
>
> This is their essential problem. They cannot be forced to preceive
> Paradise. They cannot be forced to accept happiness.
>
> > To them, it looks like an ordinary stable.
>
> True, but not the essential problem.
>
> > They can't see anything in that stable because
> > the stable is enclosed and its night outside.
>
> True, but not the essential problem.
>
> > Also, they can only smell what would be in a stable.
>
> True, but not the essential problem.
>
> > This is because those Dwarfs had ceased to
> > believe in Aslan or anything else, due to having been fooled by the fake
> > Aslan.
>
> Probably a bit more complex than that, I think. But whatever the
> reason, they are choosing to not accept paradise.
>
> > These Dwarfs appear to be in a reality which is slightly altered from
> > the reality inhabited by King Tirian and the other Friends of Narnia. The
> > Dwarfs are in a "Stable Reality" while Tirian et al are in a "Paradise
> > Reality".
>
> They choose to perceive a Stable Reality, but it they want to reject
> Paradise -- if they choose to be miserable -- that is hardly their only
> option.
>
> > However, "Paradise Reality" people can talk to the Dwarfs,
> > physically move the Dwarfs, and put solid objects in front of the Dwarfs
> > that the Dwarfs can pick up and even eat. However, the Dwarfs can only
> > perceive sounds, smells, sights, and touches in terms of the "Stable
> > Reality" They can't see the light of the Paradise Reality.
>
> Or, they choose not to perceive these things.
>
> > Also, if they intersect
> > the wall of the stable in their reality, the wall is solid to them.
> > However, that same wall is nonexistent to people in the "Paradise
> > Reality", and they can see the light, smell the flowers, and eat the fruit of
> > Paradise.
> >
> > Examples below:
> >
> > Tirian swung one Dwarf out of the Dwarf circle, but he darted back to
> > the circle, rubbing his nose as if he had bumped into the stable wall.
> > What would have happened if Tirian had tried to take a Dwarf outside the
> > imaginary stable? Would the Dwarf have gotten crushed on the stable
> > wall?
>
> I doubt the dwarf would get crushed. How precisely the Dwarf would
> perceive the experience does not really matter. All we need know is
> that he would almost certainly perceive it negatively. He would
> grouse, complain and insist on being miserable.
>
> > Aslan conjured a glorious feast for the Dwarfs, but the food tastes like
> > stable food to the Dwarfs. What would have happened if Aslan had
> > conjured a bonfire for the Dwarfs with 1) Paradise wood, or 2) Wood from
> > the Narnia outside the stable. Would the Dwarfs have been able to see
> > the fire?
>
> The essence of your question is: Would it be possible somehow to
> create a fire that the Dwarfs could perceive (and perhaps thereby
> realize, by its light, that they were not in a Stable)? The answer is
> that it does not really matter, because even if one can convince them
> they are not in a stable, they could not be forced to be happy. Their
> problem is not that they are determined to be in a stable, but rather
> that they are not willing to accept paradise (at least not yet).
>
> Even if they could see the fire, they would distrust it, fear it, and
> be miserable about it.
If they did see the fire, would they all see the walls of their imaginary stable? >> Stay informed about: Dwarfs And Altered Realities In "The Last Battle" By CS Le.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
| |
|
FAQ
Search
Profile
Private Messages
Log in/Register/Password
