Empire of man series

"mike weber" <fairportfan.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ldv483hj4gsqvfde13v607fo1lrsmct2js@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:36:11 -0500, "deowll" <deowll.RemoveThis@bellsouth.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>And Mike. Guess what. When tested good mail certainly will stop an arrow
>>fired from a wimpy bow. Good mail will do a decent job of stopping arrows
>>fired from anything less than a God awful strong bow.
>
> What type of arrow? Pile heads were designed specifically to slide
> right between the links of mail.

You mean bobkin or at least I hope you do. Long and narrow but they still
have to break links in good mail and every time they do they lose energy to
do it. The problem is an ice pick with go through mail with no problem but
the results of that are not always what one might wish. Hunting arrows all
use broad heads to produce enough bleeding to kill quickly. An icepick may
or may not disable a person even when driven into the skull. I've even seen
film of a west coast guy that had a pile point fired from a pistol cross bow
go through his skull and push out the skin on the front of his head and the
guy still got up off the bed and took the bow from the person that shot him,
called the cops and made to the news at six. He seemed to be only slightly
inconvenienced in the short term. There are a host of similar news items
about nails and ice picks because narrow points often cause almost no
bleeding and only a small amount of tissue has been displaced.

The bobin is long and narrow but it does spread out so it can do some
cutting and cause some bleeding. Fine mail has tiny links and is revited. If
it takes 50 ft pounds to break a link breaking three links would eat 150 ft.
pounds and at long range you aren't going to have that even from a heavy
bow.




>>
>>The French knights had good armor. The English archers had bows that most
>>likely all had a pull of well over 120 pounds. Based on the dimensions of
>>the bows from the Mary Rose suggests over 150. This dude was claiming a
>>high
>>was maybe 100 tops. This does not match history nor archeology nor does it
>>match what happens in tests.
>
> That's for sure. There's no way that the bows the English are
> supposed to have used were 100 pounds or less - you can't even "pull"
> them, i recall reading, you have to "press" them.
>
> --
> mike weber (fairportfan@gmail.com)
> ============================
> My Website: http://electronictiger.com
> ===================================
> No use looking for the answers when the questions are in doubt - Fred
> leBlanc, "The Love of My Life"

On Sat, 8 Sep 2007 13:13:32 -0500, "deowll" <deowll.TakeThisOut@bellsouth.net>
wrote:


>>> Great idea. The Ancient Romans called such a formation a tortoise. They
>>> used
>>> plywood shields that weighted if I recall right about 20 pounds and were
>>> made of a form of plywood covered with an outer layer of leather.
>>
>> But those shields and formation are only going to be developed after the
>> opposition has started making heavy use of arrows. If no one has been
>> shooting arrows at them, they aren't going to have developed any
>> anti-arrow tactics.
>
>Which seems to have been some time in the neolithic in many locations.
>
>Of course some people took longer.
>
the big problem is that it takes some folk a hell of a long time to
get past the idea that a battle is just a gang fight writ large. these
formations are really only going to be available to actual armies.