The End of Eternity

In article <TECQXhvKj0FX-pn2-kkRTHLnX2ymG RemoveThis @dsl-206-55-144-107.tstonramp.com>,
"Robert Blair" <nobody RemoveThis @nowhere.not> said:

> On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:19:24 UTC, Tim Bruening
> <tsbrueni RemoveThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
>>> I have never seen a politician that could think past his/her
>>> next election let alone the next decade.
>>
>> Al Gore seems to be thinking about global warming several decades
>> hence.
>
> Only because he thinks it will get him elected. If it was not
> such a current hot topic he would completely ignore it.

And your evidence to support this claim is... oh, hell, why am I
even asking?

--
William December Starr <wdstarr RemoveThis @panix.com>
 >> Stay informed about: The End of Eternity 

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:04:15 -0000, "Robert Blair"
<nobody.DeleteThis@nowhere.not> wrote:

>> > I have never seen a politician that could think past his/her next
>> > election let alone the next decade.
>>
>> Al Gore seems to be thinking about global warming several decades hence.
>
>Only because he thinks it will get him elected. If it was not such a
>current hot topic he would completely ignore it.

Politicians that expect to be elected work for the short term. Al
Gore wants to be an elder statesman, being listened to now that he's
unlikely to be elected to anything significant.
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On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:00:03 GMT, "Mike Schilling"
<mscottschilling.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:


>> some good points, here. personally, i think mussolini would never have
>> been signficant without Hitler...
>
>Though the idea that preventing the crises and disasters we're familiar with
>wouldn't have caused others, perhaps as awful, is overly optimistic (or
>pessimistic, depending on how you look at it.)

I'm pretty sure that there was no historical inevitability about World
War II so that something comparable had to happen.
 >> Stay informed about: The End of Eternity 

"David Johnston" <rgorman.RemoveThis@block.net> wrote in message
news:6bcve2pqv5ee8v0ud3b5hen9nr2k35kgen@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:00:03 GMT, "Mike Schilling"
> <mscottschilling.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> some good points, here. personally, i think mussolini would never have
>>> been signficant without Hitler...
>>
>>Though the idea that preventing the crises and disasters we're familiar
>>with
>>wouldn't have caused others, perhaps as awful, is overly optimistic (or
>>pessimistic, depending on how you look at it.)
>
> I'm pretty sure that there was no historical inevitability about World
> War II so that something comparable had to happen.

But you're not sure that preventing WWII (say, by eliminating Hitler during
the failed putsch, or wrecking the Munich conference so that a short wart
resulted in a decisive German loss in 1938) wouldn't result in something
worse, like a full-scale nuclear war in the 1960s..
 >> Stay informed about: The End of Eternity 

Mike Schilling wrote:

> "David Johnston" <rgorman RemoveThis @block.net> wrote in message
> news:6bcve2pqv5ee8v0ud3b5hen9nr2k35kgen@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:00:03 GMT, "Mike Schilling"
> > <mscottschilling RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>> some good points, here. personally, i think mussolini would never have
> >>> been signficant without Hitler...
> >>
> >>Though the idea that preventing the crises and disasters we're familiar
> >>with
> >>wouldn't have caused others, perhaps as awful, is overly optimistic (or
> >>pessimistic, depending on how you look at it.)
> >
> > I'm pretty sure that there was no historical inevitability about World
> > War II so that something comparable had to happen.
>
> But you're not sure that preventing WWII (say, by eliminating Hitler during
> the failed putsch, or wrecking the Munich conference so that a short wart
> resulted in a decisive German loss in 1938) wouldn't result in something
> worse, like a full-scale nuclear war in the 1960s..

I figure that preventing World War Two would prevent nuclear weapons by
removing the prod.
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Tim Bruening wrote:
> rja.carnegie.TakeThisOut@excite.com wrote:
>
> > Robert Blair wrote:
> > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:19:24 UTC, Tim Bruening
> > > <tsbrueni.TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > I have heard many politicians express opposition to wasting taxpayer money on
> > > > > > space when there are so many problems at home to solve. Few politicians can see
> > > > > > a decade into the future, let alone 12.5 million years!
> > > > >
> > > > > I have never seen a politician that could think past his/her next
> > > > > election let alone the next decade.
> > > >
> > > > Al Gore seems to be thinking about global warming several decades hence.
> > >
> > > Only because he thinks it will get him elected.
> >
> > Elected to what?
>
> President.

No. He will never be President. He lost the election in 2000.

Perhaps I'm misreading you. Is English not your first language, or am
I thinking of Tina Hall? (Of course, I can never be sure you /aren't/
Tina Hall.)

What I mean is that perhaps you're arguing he campaigned on climate
change (not "global warming") in 2000 as an election ploy. But that
was six years ago. When we use present tense, we can't be talking
about that.
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Mike Schilling wrote:
> "Dan Swartzendruber" <dswartz.DeleteThis@druber.com> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1f594513f7f63dcb9897d4@news.lightband.com...
> > In article <dhdue2dcfe0j7bj94efap3ir898l9bbcrd.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
> > rgorman.DeleteThis@block.net says...
> >> All the major ones.
> >> World War I is easy to prevent. While the balkans were a tinderbox
> >> waiting for a match, all you have to do is blow out all the matches.
> >> If you're a time traveller, that's no so hard. That prevents the
> >> Russian Revolution in the short term, and if you can encourage a
> >> continuing gradual liberalisation of Russia you can end up with
> >> something more stable and less aggressive. The Sino-Japanese war
> >> could be avoided by quietly steering certain Japanese officers away
> >> from a life in the military. Without World War I and the Russian
> >> Revolution, there is no Hitler and no Stalin so it's hard to say what
> >> hypothetical conflicts you might have to nip in the bud. I'm not sure
> >> how to prevent Mussolini's inept adventures in empire building but you
> >> might not to. Instead you might just want to make sure they go even
> >> worse, discrediting both him and neo-colonialism.
> >
> > some good points, here. personally, i think mussolini would never have
> > been signficant without Hitler...
>
> Though the idea that preventing the crises and disasters we're familiar with
> wouldn't have caused others, perhaps as awful, is overly optimistic (or
> pessimistic, depending on how you look at it.)
>
> obSF: Hari Seldon announcing the Traders' strike as the current conflict,
> when the Mule's conquests had pushed the Foundation's concerns in a
> different direction entirely.

Yeah, though that scene turns out to be not entirely what it seems,
anyway.

I have sympathy with the version of twentieth century history that has
the relatively recently constituted Germany aspiring to "a place in the
sun", an empire in the developing world (which wasn't called that then)
such as other Big Nations had. To some extent it's a matter of
national political setup, to some extent it's to do with how the Great
Powers conducted relations with each other and with Not-So-Great
Powers.

But then again there were earlier catastrophes - but we're getting away
from the goal of preventing drug use from becoming popular. Mind you,
we may have an artificial concept of "drug" that doesn't include
alcohol and tobacco.

So, what do you do about alcoholism? One argument is - don't sell
drinks to people who are already drunk. But people make their living
selling the stuff, they aren't going to stop.
 >> Stay informed about: The End of Eternity 

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 02:33:10 GMT, "Mike Schilling"
<mscottschilling.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"David Johnston" <rgorman.TakeThisOut@block.net> wrote in message
>news:6bcve2pqv5ee8v0ud3b5hen9nr2k35kgen@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:00:03 GMT, "Mike Schilling"
>> <mscottschilling.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> some good points, here. personally, i think mussolini would never have
>>>> been signficant without Hitler...
>>>
>>>Though the idea that preventing the crises and disasters we're familiar
>>>with
>>>wouldn't have caused others, perhaps as awful, is overly optimistic (or
>>>pessimistic, depending on how you look at it.)
>>
>> I'm pretty sure that there was no historical inevitability about World
>> War II so that something comparable had to happen.
>
>But you're not sure that preventing WWII (say, by eliminating Hitler during
>the failed putsch, or wrecking the Munich conference so that a short wart
>resulted in a decisive German loss in 1938) wouldn't result in something
>worse, like a full-scale nuclear war in the 1960s..

So? This is Eternity. We can stop that too.
 >> Stay informed about: The End of Eternity 

"David Johnston" <rgorman.RemoveThis@block.net> wrote in message
news:0cnve2p9r5481hak2dn1dg0flf0vuq6v68@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 02:33:10 GMT, "Mike Schilling"
> <mscottschilling.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"David Johnston" <rgorman.RemoveThis@block.net> wrote in message
>>news:6bcve2pqv5ee8v0ud3b5hen9nr2k35kgen@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:00:03 GMT, "Mike Schilling"
>>> <mscottschilling.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> some good points, here. personally, i think mussolini would never
>>>>> have
>>>>> been signficant without Hitler...
>>>>
>>>>Though the idea that preventing the crises and disasters we're familiar
>>>>with
>>>>wouldn't have caused others, perhaps as awful, is overly optimistic (or
>>>>pessimistic, depending on how you look at it.)
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure that there was no historical inevitability about World
>>> War II so that something comparable had to happen.
>>
>>But you're not sure that preventing WWII (say, by eliminating Hitler
>>during
>>the failed putsch, or wrecking the Munich conference so that a short wart
>>resulted in a decisive German loss in 1938) wouldn't result in something
>>worse, like a full-scale nuclear war in the 1960s..
>
> So? This is Eternity. We can stop that too.

That's the premise of the book, that a fix here and a fix there leads to
stability. Color me unconvinced.
 >> Stay informed about: The End of Eternity 

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 04:34:42 UTC, wdstarr RemoveThis @panix.com (William December
Starr) wrote:

> And your evidence to support this claim is...

Watching all the politicians do their two-step during the current (and
past) silly season.


> oh, hell, why am I even asking?

I don't have a clue


--
Robert Blair
 >> Stay informed about: The End of Eternity 

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 06:17:47 -0000, "Robert Blair"
<nobody DeleteThis @nowhere.not> wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 04:34:42 UTC, wdstarr DeleteThis @panix.com (William December
>Starr) wrote:
>
>> And your evidence to support this claim is...
>
>Watching all the politicians do their two-step during the current (and
>past) silly season.
>

Gore has been ringing environmental alarm bells for a very, very long
time. And considering it's one of the things that lost him the
Presidential election, I doubt he does it to get elected.
 >> Stay informed about: The End of Eternity 

rja.carnegie DeleteThis @excite.com wrote:

> Tim Bruening wrote:
> > rja.carnegie DeleteThis @excite.com wrote:
> >
> > > Robert Blair wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:19:24 UTC, Tim Bruening
> > > > <tsbrueni DeleteThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > I have heard many politicians express opposition to wasting taxpayer money on
> > > > > > > space when there are so many problems at home to solve. Few politicians can see
> > > > > > > a decade into the future, let alone 12.5 million years!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have never seen a politician that could think past his/her next
> > > > > > election let alone the next decade.
> > > > >
> > > > > Al Gore seems to be thinking about global warming several decades hence.
> > > >
> > > > Only because he thinks it will get him elected.
> > >
> > > Elected to what?
> >
> > President.
>
> No. He will never be President. He lost the election in 2000.

Nixon lost in 1960, then won in 1968.
 >> Stay informed about: The End of Eternity 

At the end of the End of Eternity, Noys Lambent and Andrew Harlan erase
Eternity from the timeline by deciding not to rescue Cooper from the
20th century. However, they are protected from the Reality Change by a
physiotime field.

If any Eternity personnel were in Reality at the time of the Noys/Andrew
Change, and were protected by physiotime fields, would they have been
protected from the Change also? If so, how would they have coped with
the sudden shift to a mostly radioactive Earth?
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