Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22)

The Black Guardian <blakgard.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote in
news:1186818867.739223.163420@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

> Billy Bissette wrote:
>> The Black Guardian wrote:
>>> Dan McEwen wrote:
>>>> No real spoilers, but I have to point out something that
>>>> Cat Hank said to Ape Hank:
>>>>
>>>> "Jean fell fighting Magneto. He caused an electrical surge
>>>> in her brain. She died in Scott's arms of a massive stroke."
>>>>
>>>> Does that suggest that the retcon is being retconned?
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>>> More than likely Hank just didn't want to tell Dark Beast the
>>> truth. Hank also doesn't mention anything about the last time
>>> Jean was seen (that is, during PHOENIX: ENDSONG).
>>
>> He has no reason not to tell Dark Beast the truth. It seems more
>> like something the writer didn't know, and just wasn't checked.
>> Beast could have as easily have said "Xorn" instead of "Magneto".
>
> While I'm not going to disagree, he has no reason to tell Dark Beast
> the truth, either. And we know that Hank knows what he told Dark Beast
> isn't true.

In which case, he doesn't have a reason to say how Jean died in
the first place.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

grinningdemon <grinningdemon.TakeThisOut@austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:fliqb3ppsgaj6ci180bd0hbh3dtc7ft11a@4ax.com:

> On 10 Aug 2007 15:50:26 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.TakeThisOut@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>news:e1vnb39dopps7np96f3i3tkb2r984ef1fj@4ax.com:
>>
>>>>Well, if you had to give a quick rundown of what had happened,
>>>>wouldn't it be easier to just say "Magneto" instead of the full
>>>>explanation, which is really quite messy?
>>>
>>> Or, more likely, it was an editorial mistake.
>>
>>Xorneto was an editorial mistake. Besides, I get the feeling Mike Carey
>>knows his stuff. Maybe it wasn't a mistake on his part.
>
> Maybe so...or maybe he skipped the Chuck Austen retcon along with me.
> I agree that the Xorneto bit was lame...the problem is that Marvel has
> never been consistent in their characterization of Magneto and, as a
> result, it seems like half his appearances get retconned as imposters.

Magneto still isn't as bad off as Doctor Doom has been in the past.

I recall a discussion years ago which ultimately decided that nearly
every appearance of Doom past his intro needed to be a Doombot for
one reason or another.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

grinningdemon <grinningdemon RemoveThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:3jiqb3hl7fcrncts67ufth50pnrm6p46qm@4ax.com:

> On 10 Aug 2007 15:50:26 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy RemoveThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon RemoveThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>news:e1vnb39dopps7np96f3i3tkb2r984ef1fj@4ax.com:
>>
>>>>Well, if you had to give a quick rundown of what had happened,
>>>>wouldn't it be easier to just say "Magneto" instead of the full
>>>>explanation, which is really quite messy?
>>>
>>> Or, more likely, it was an editorial mistake.
>>
>>Xorneto was an editorial mistake. Besides, I get the feeling Mike
>>Carey knows his stuff. Maybe it wasn't a mistake on his part.
>>
>>> That said, I would think Rachel would bear mentioning as well...and,
>>> even if Cable is dead, the whole point of that exchange was that
>>> they tend not to stay that way so he should have come up...and
>>> there's also Stryfe to consider...my God, that Summer/Grey line has
>>> gotten complicated over the years.
>>
>>Hyperstorm? (I know everyone's begging for that one back)
>
> Oh geez...I forgot all about that wonderful piece of storytelling.

I just wanted to bring a little ray of sunshine into your life.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

grinningdemon <grinningdemon RemoveThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:fliqb3ppsgaj6ci180bd0hbh3dtc7ft11a@4ax.com:

> On 10 Aug 2007 15:50:26 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy RemoveThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon RemoveThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>news:e1vnb39dopps7np96f3i3tkb2r984ef1fj@4ax.com:
>>
>>>>Well, if you had to give a quick rundown of what had happened,
>>>>wouldn't it be easier to just say "Magneto" instead of the full
>>>>explanation, which is really quite messy?
>>>
>>> Or, more likely, it was an editorial mistake.
>>
>>Xorneto was an editorial mistake. Besides, I get the feeling Mike
>>Carey knows his stuff. Maybe it wasn't a mistake on his part.
>
> Maybe so...or maybe he skipped the Chuck Austen retcon along with me.
> I agree that the Xorneto bit was lame...the problem is that Marvel has
> never been consistent in their characterization of Magneto and, as a
> result, it seems like half his appearances get retconned as imposters.

I'm for this piece of retconning in my head: Magneto died. Xorn (II) -
who turns out to be really quite powerful - is delusional and makes
everyone thing his non-existant brother was "Xorn pretending to be
Magneto pretending to be Xorn" (does that even make sense?). Then,
later, Wanda brings him back. End of story.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

The Black Guardian <blakgard.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in
news:1186818867.739223.163420@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

> Billy Bissette wrote:
>> The Black Guardian wrote:
>>> Dan McEwen wrote:
>>>> No real spoilers, but I have to point out something that
>>>> Cat Hank said to Ape Hank:
>>>>
>>>> "Jean fell fighting Magneto. He caused an electrical surge
>>>> in her brain. She died in Scott's arms of a massive stroke."
>>>>
>>>> Does that suggest that the retcon is being retconned?
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>>> More than likely Hank just didn't want to tell Dark Beast the
>>> truth. Hank also doesn't mention anything about the last time
>>> Jean was seen (that is, during PHOENIX: ENDSONG).
>>
>> He has no reason not to tell Dark Beast the truth. It seems more
>> like something the writer didn't know, and just wasn't checked.
>> Beast could have as easily have said "Xorn" instead of "Magneto".
>
> While I'm not going to disagree, he has no reason to tell Dark Beast
> the truth, either. And we know that Hank knows what he told Dark Beast
> isn't true.

I could handle Beast giving a shorthand version (though for no
discernible reason) but the lying makes little sense. Why lie about
Jean and not the arguably more powerful Nate Grey? Based on what DB
said, it's a heck of a lot easier to bring him back.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:34:35 +0000, Dan McEwen wrote:

> The Black Guardian <blakgard.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in
> news:1186818867.739223.163420@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Billy Bissette wrote:
>>> The Black Guardian wrote:
>>>> Dan McEwen wrote:
>>>>> No real spoilers, but I have to point out something that Cat Hank
>>>>> said to Ape Hank:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jean fell fighting Magneto. He caused an electrical surge in her
>>>>> brain. She died in Scott's arms of a massive stroke."
>>>>>
>>>>> Does that suggest that the retcon is being retconned?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>
>>>> More than likely Hank just didn't want to tell Dark Beast the truth.
>>>> Hank also doesn't mention anything about the last time Jean was seen
>>>> (that is, during PHOENIX: ENDSONG).
>>>
>>> He has no reason not to tell Dark Beast the truth. It seems more like
>>> something the writer didn't know, and just wasn't checked. Beast could
>>> have as easily have said "Xorn" instead of "Magneto".
>>
>> While I'm not going to disagree, he has no reason to tell Dark Beast the
>> truth, either. And we know that Hank knows what he told Dark Beast isn't
>> true.
>
> I could handle Beast giving a shorthand version (though for no discernible
> reason) but the lying makes little sense. Why lie about Jean and not the
> arguably more powerful Nate Grey? Based on what DB said, it's a heck of a
> lot easier to bring him back.

Does Dark Beast know about Xorn and the Collective? I can see Beast not
wanting to have to explain who Xorn was and what the Collective was to him.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:29:23 +0000, Dan McEwen wrote:

> grinningdemon <grinningdemon.DeleteThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
> news:fliqb3ppsgaj6ci180bd0hbh3dtc7ft11a@4ax.com:
>
>> On 10 Aug 2007 15:50:26 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.DeleteThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>>news:e1vnb39dopps7np96f3i3tkb2r984ef1fj@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>>>Well, if you had to give a quick rundown of what had happened,
>>>>>wouldn't it be easier to just say "Magneto" instead of the full
>>>>>explanation, which is really quite messy?
>>>>
>>>> Or, more likely, it was an editorial mistake.
>>>
>>>Xorneto was an editorial mistake. Besides, I get the feeling Mike Carey
>>>knows his stuff. Maybe it wasn't a mistake on his part.
>>
>> Maybe so...or maybe he skipped the Chuck Austen retcon along with me. I
>> agree that the Xorneto bit was lame...the problem is that Marvel has
>> never been consistent in their characterization of Magneto and, as a
>> result, it seems like half his appearances get retconned as imposters.
>
> I'm for this piece of retconning in my head: Magneto died. Xorn (II) -
> who turns out to be really quite powerful - is delusional and makes
> everyone thing his non-existant brother was "Xorn pretending to be Magneto
> pretending to be Xorn" (does that even make sense?). Then, later, Wanda
> brings him back. End of story.

Why would Wanda want to bring him back? She hates him. It would make more
sense for her to bring back her Mama, or the family who raised her.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

Dan McEwen wrote:
> The Black Guardian wrote:
>> Billy Bissette wrote:
>>> The Black Guardian wrote:
>>>> Dan McEwen wrote:
>>>>> No real spoilers, but I have to point out something that
>>>>> Cat Hank said to Ape Hank:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jean fell fighting Magneto. He caused an electrical surge
>>>>> in her brain. She died in Scott's arms of a massive stroke."
>>>>>
>>>>> Does that suggest that the retcon is being retconned?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> More than likely Hank just didn't want to tell Dark Beast the
>>>> truth. Hank also doesn't mention anything about the last time
>>>> Jean was seen (that is, during PHOENIX: ENDSONG).
>>>
>>> He has no reason not to tell Dark Beast the truth. It seems more
>>> like something the writer didn't know, and just wasn't checked.
>>> Beast could have as easily have said "Xorn" instead of "Magneto".
>>
>> While I'm not going to disagree, he has no reason to tell Dark
>> Beast the truth, either. And we know that Hank knows what he told
>> Dark Beast isn't true.
>
> I could handle Beast giving a shorthand version (though for no
> discernible reason) but the lying makes little sense. Why lie
> about Jean and not the arguably more powerful Nate Grey? Based on
> what DB said, it's a heck of a lot easier to bring him back.

Because it brings up Xorn/Collective and Sublime.

Frankly, I don't see how telling the truth, especially in Jean's case,
makes any sense. Based on what we've seen, it's a heck of a lot easier
to bring Jean back. It's also more risky, because they don't know
whether she'd be Jeanix or Dark Jeanix.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

mimf <mimf.TakeThisOut@nospam.com> wrote in
news:pan.2007.08.11.20.07.49.27003@nospam.com:

> On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:34:35 +0000, Dan McEwen wrote:
>
>> I could handle Beast giving a shorthand version (though for no
>> discernible reason) but the lying makes little sense. Why lie about
>> Jean and not the arguably more powerful Nate Grey? Based on what DB
>> said, it's a heck of a lot easier to bring him back.
>
> Does Dark Beast know about Xorn and the Collective? I can see Beast
> not wanting to have to explain who Xorn was and what the Collective
> was to him.

Doesn't matter. "A Magneto imposter killed Jean." Really simple
stuff.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

mimf <mimf RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote in
news:pan.2007.08.11.20.10.47.542260@nospam.com:

> On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:29:23 +0000, Dan McEwen wrote:
>
>> grinningdemon <grinningdemon RemoveThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
>> news:fliqb3ppsgaj6ci180bd0hbh3dtc7ft11a@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On 10 Aug 2007 15:50:26 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy RemoveThis @gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon RemoveThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>>>news:e1vnb39dopps7np96f3i3tkb2r984ef1fj@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>>>Well, if you had to give a quick rundown of what had happened,
>>>>>>wouldn't it be easier to just say "Magneto" instead of the full
>>>>>>explanation, which is really quite messy?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or, more likely, it was an editorial mistake.
>>>>
>>>>Xorneto was an editorial mistake. Besides, I get the feeling Mike
>>>>Carey knows his stuff. Maybe it wasn't a mistake on his part.
>>>
>>> Maybe so...or maybe he skipped the Chuck Austen retcon along with
>>> me. I agree that the Xorneto bit was lame...the problem is that
>>> Marvel has never been consistent in their characterization of
>>> Magneto and, as a result, it seems like half his appearances get
>>> retconned as imposters.
>>
>> I'm for this piece of retconning in my head: Magneto died. Xorn (II)
>> - who turns out to be really quite powerful - is delusional and makes
>> everyone thing his non-existant brother was "Xorn pretending to be
>> Magneto pretending to be Xorn" (does that even make sense?). Then,
>> later, Wanda brings him back. End of story.
>
> Why would Wanda want to bring him back? She hates him. It would make
> more sense for her to bring back her Mama, or the family who raised
> her.

Um, House of M? She brought him back there, and as the leader of
mutants.. She couldn't have wanted him too gone.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

On 11 Aug 2007 12:26:59 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy RemoveThis @gmail.com>
wrote:

>grinningdemon <grinningdemon RemoveThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
>news:3jiqb3hl7fcrncts67ufth50pnrm6p46qm@4ax.com:
>
>> On 10 Aug 2007 15:50:26 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy RemoveThis @gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon RemoveThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>>news:e1vnb39dopps7np96f3i3tkb2r984ef1fj@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>>>Well, if you had to give a quick rundown of what had happened,
>>>>>wouldn't it be easier to just say "Magneto" instead of the full
>>>>>explanation, which is really quite messy?
>>>>
>>>> Or, more likely, it was an editorial mistake.
>>>
>>>Xorneto was an editorial mistake. Besides, I get the feeling Mike
>>>Carey knows his stuff. Maybe it wasn't a mistake on his part.
>>>
>>>> That said, I would think Rachel would bear mentioning as well...and,
>>>> even if Cable is dead, the whole point of that exchange was that
>>>> they tend not to stay that way so he should have come up...and
>>>> there's also Stryfe to consider...my God, that Summer/Grey line has
>>>> gotten complicated over the years.
>>>
>>>Hyperstorm? (I know everyone's begging for that one back)
>>
>> Oh geez...I forgot all about that wonderful piece of storytelling.
>
>I just wanted to bring a little ray of sunshine into your life.

Anyone want to take bets on how long before we start seeing Scott's
and Emma's alternate future/cloned offspring popping up?
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

On 11 Aug 2007 21:07:26 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>mimf <mimf.DeleteThis@nospam.com> wrote in
>news:pan.2007.08.11.20.10.47.542260@nospam.com:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:29:23 +0000, Dan McEwen wrote:
>>
>>> grinningdemon <grinningdemon.DeleteThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>> news:fliqb3ppsgaj6ci180bd0hbh3dtc7ft11a@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On 10 Aug 2007 15:50:26 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.DeleteThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>>>>news:e1vnb39dopps7np96f3i3tkb2r984ef1fj@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Well, if you had to give a quick rundown of what had happened,
>>>>>>>wouldn't it be easier to just say "Magneto" instead of the full
>>>>>>>explanation, which is really quite messy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or, more likely, it was an editorial mistake.
>>>>>
>>>>>Xorneto was an editorial mistake. Besides, I get the feeling Mike
>>>>>Carey knows his stuff. Maybe it wasn't a mistake on his part.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe so...or maybe he skipped the Chuck Austen retcon along with
>>>> me. I agree that the Xorneto bit was lame...the problem is that
>>>> Marvel has never been consistent in their characterization of
>>>> Magneto and, as a result, it seems like half his appearances get
>>>> retconned as imposters.
>>>
>>> I'm for this piece of retconning in my head: Magneto died. Xorn (II)
>>> - who turns out to be really quite powerful - is delusional and makes
>>> everyone thing his non-existant brother was "Xorn pretending to be
>>> Magneto pretending to be Xorn" (does that even make sense?). Then,
>>> later, Wanda brings him back. End of story.
>>
>> Why would Wanda want to bring him back? She hates him. It would make
>> more sense for her to bring back her Mama, or the family who raised
>> her.
>
>Um, House of M? She brought him back there, and as the leader of
>mutants.. She couldn't have wanted him too gone.

I still see some serious flaws in that whole "deepest desire" idea
from House of M...Fantastic Four, anyone?
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:06:39 +0000, Dan McEwen wrote:

> mimf <mimf RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote in
> news:pan.2007.08.11.20.07.49.27003@nospam.com:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:34:35 +0000, Dan McEwen wrote:
>>
>>> I could handle Beast giving a shorthand version (though for no
>>> discernible reason) but the lying makes little sense. Why lie about
>>> Jean and not the arguably more powerful Nate Grey? Based on what DB
>>> said, it's a heck of a lot easier to bring him back.
>>
>> Does Dark Beast know about Xorn and the Collective? I can see Beast not
>> wanting to have to explain who Xorn was and what the Collective was to
>> him.
>
> Doesn't matter. "A Magneto imposter killed Jean." Really simple stuff.

But that gives rise to the question about who the Magneto imposter was.
Dark Beast knows who Magneto is, but might be curious to know more
details about a "Magneto imposter" and how the imposter managed to kill
Jean.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22)