Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22)

grinningdemon <grinningdemon.DeleteThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:0igvb3lv42s7kme3isb193i760vk6h1g47@4ax.com:

> On 12 Aug 2007 16:26:01 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
> wrote:

>>On some levels, it was about what Wanda wanted. It's possible that
>>her overall goals were met but the details were up in the air. That
>>meant that in order for her to accomplish a stated goal - give daddy a
>>world to rule so he'll shut the hell up and stop fighting - other
>>events shifted. That left the FF in a bad way. However, I have no
>>idea what happened to them since I didn't read the HoM: FF mini. I
>>just heard something vague along the lines of "it was bad".
>
> Ben, Sue, and Johnny died in the accident that was supposed to give
> them their powers and Ben was the psychotic Doom family
> pet...basically, Doom got everything he wanted and the rest got the
> shaft...which doesn't really line up with your theory about Wanda
> doing what she really wanted...nor does Apocalypse ruling
> Africa...she's have no reason to help these guys out and scew everyone
> else...

I didn't say she wanted those things so much as that they were
side-effects of her getting what she did want.

and why would she bring back Hawkeye and not any of the others
> she killed like, say, her husband...the whole storyline was just
> poorly conceived from start to finish.

For the Vision, at least, we know Quicksilver never liked him. That's
pretty important.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

On Aug 13, 6:57 am, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAM....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> JLB <barn....DeleteThis@shentel.net> wrote innews:1186961314.169252.101020@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 12, 7:22 pm, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAM....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> mimf <m....DeleteThis@nospam.com> wrote
> >> innews:pan.2007.08.12.19.02.26.408177@nospam.com:
>
> >> >> The thing was not about them being physically identical but being
> >> >> part of a telepathic gestalt. It seemed like they were of one
> >> >> mind - until Esme and Sophie showed them that not only was it not
> >> >> true but that they could hide it from the others. Esme, in
> >> >> particular, completely shocked the Three-in-One. Prior, and
> >> >> mostly since (though there was some development in Warsong), they
> >> >> act as one.
>
> >> > Doesn't what happened in Warsong kind of preclude any future
> >> > character development?
>
> >> For the moment. I can't see them staying diamond forever.
>
> > I don't think they're diamond, just their hearts.
>
> I thought they were. Being diamond was the only thing that protected
> them. It cuts off their emotions and telepathy. Note that Emma hardly
> ever goes diamond.
>
> > You know I'd kind of like to find out one of the Cuckoos couldn't
> > really let Esme and Sophie go and ended up pushing them into two
> > bodies of the other clones and letting them escape.
>
> I'd let Esme go. Still, Quentin couldn't even bring Sophie back and
> he's more powerful than the Three-in-One.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The difference is their minds were active even if they weren't
completely alive and convienient healthy bodies were present. It'd be
sort of like dumping Betsy's mind into Kwannon's body.

JLB
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

On Aug 13, 7:00 am, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAM....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> grinningdemon <grinningde....DeleteThis@austin.rr.com> wrote innews:0igvb3lv42s7kme3isb193i760vk6h1g47@4ax.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 12 Aug 2007 16:26:01 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAM....DeleteThis@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>On some levels, it was about what Wanda wanted. It's possible that
> >>her overall goals were met but the details were up in the air. That
> >>meant that in order for her to accomplish a stated goal - give daddy a
> >>world to rule so he'll shut the hell up and stop fighting - other
> >>events shifted. That left the FF in a bad way. However, I have no
> >>idea what happened to them since I didn't read the HoM: FF mini. I
> >>just heard something vague along the lines of "it was bad".
>
> > Ben, Sue, and Johnny died in the accident that was supposed to give
> > them their powers and Ben was the psychotic Doom family
> > pet...basically, Doom got everything he wanted and the rest got the
> > shaft...which doesn't really line up with your theory about Wanda
> > doing what she really wanted...nor does Apocalypse ruling
> > Africa...she's have no reason to help these guys out and scew everyone
> > else...
>
> I didn't say she wanted those things so much as that they were
> side-effects of her getting what she did want.
>
> and why would she bring back Hawkeye and not any of the others
>
> > she killed like, say, her husband...the whole storyline was just
> > poorly conceived from start to finish.
>
> For the Vision, at least, we know Quicksilver never liked him. That's
> pretty important.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, Hank Pym never had reason or chance to create Ultron in this
reality, so no Vision. Maybe Simon should have been her husband or
something, but in some cases it was just one person getting a desire
and then spreading from there.

JLB
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

On 13 Aug 2007 11:00:21 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.RemoveThis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.RemoveThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>news:0igvb3lv42s7kme3isb193i760vk6h1g47@4ax.com:
>
>> On 12 Aug 2007 16:26:01 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.RemoveThis@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>>On some levels, it was about what Wanda wanted. It's possible that
>>>her overall goals were met but the details were up in the air. That
>>>meant that in order for her to accomplish a stated goal - give daddy a
>>>world to rule so he'll shut the hell up and stop fighting - other
>>>events shifted. That left the FF in a bad way. However, I have no
>>>idea what happened to them since I didn't read the HoM: FF mini. I
>>>just heard something vague along the lines of "it was bad".
>>
>> Ben, Sue, and Johnny died in the accident that was supposed to give
>> them their powers and Ben was the psychotic Doom family
>> pet...basically, Doom got everything he wanted and the rest got the
>> shaft...which doesn't really line up with your theory about Wanda
>> doing what she really wanted...nor does Apocalypse ruling
>> Africa...she's have no reason to help these guys out and scew everyone
>> else...
>
>I didn't say she wanted those things so much as that they were
>side-effects of her getting what she did want.

I just don't think it works any way you look at it...there are
sizeable plot holes no matter what her motivation ultimately was.

>
>and why would she bring back Hawkeye and not any of the others
>> she killed like, say, her husband...the whole storyline was just
>> poorly conceived from start to finish.
>
>For the Vision, at least, we know Quicksilver never liked him. That's
>pretty important.

....and did he have something against Ant-Man too? Agatha Harkness?
Presumably, her kids had to come from somewhere. What made Hawkeye so
special? Not that I'm complaining about having him back, mind
you...he's one of my favorite characters and he had a really stupid
and pointless death in yet another over-hyped and poorly written
story.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

JLB <barnett RemoveThis @shentel.net> wrote in
news:1187032270.596351.156970@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

> On Aug 13, 6:57 am, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAM... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>> I'd let Esme go. Still, Quentin couldn't even bring Sophie back and
>> he's more powerful than the Three-in-One.- Hide quoted text -

> The difference is their minds were active even if they weren't
> completely alive and convienient healthy bodies were present. It'd be
> sort of like dumping Betsy's mind into Kwannon's body.

Don't know how I missed that idea, but it definitely could work.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

grinningdemon <grinningdemon DeleteThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:86p1c3lp9mt09adgcfde24pnrbqmhsik98@4ax.com:

> On 13 Aug 2007 11:00:21 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy DeleteThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:

>>I didn't say she wanted those things so much as that they were
>>side-effects of her getting what she did want.
>
> I just don't think it works any way you look at it...there are
> sizeable plot holes no matter what her motivation ultimately was.

The whole series was a disaster.

>>and why would she bring back Hawkeye and not any of the others
>>> she killed like, say, her husband...the whole storyline was just
>>> poorly conceived from start to finish.
>>
>>For the Vision, at least, we know Quicksilver never liked him. That's
>>pretty important.
>
> ...and did he have something against Ant-Man too? Agatha Harkness?

Everyone can't have the same roles. The desires of the few Wanda chose
to make a reality were paramount. That causes a chain reaction of
changes. I don't see why these people couldn't have existed outside of
the roles they had in the MU.

> Presumably, her kids had to come from somewhere.

Some other guy? Wanda obviously wanted them back.

What made Hawkeye so
> special? Not that I'm complaining about having him back, mind
> you...he's one of my favorite characters and he had a really stupid
> and pointless death in yet another over-hyped and poorly written
> story.

I'm guessing Wanda felt sad about Hawkeye's death and so brought him
back.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

On 14 Aug 2007 00:27:57 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.DeleteThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>news:86p1c3lp9mt09adgcfde24pnrbqmhsik98@4ax.com:
>
>> On 13 Aug 2007 11:00:21 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>>I didn't say she wanted those things so much as that they were
>>>side-effects of her getting what she did want.
>>
>> I just don't think it works any way you look at it...there are
>> sizeable plot holes no matter what her motivation ultimately was.
>
>The whole series was a disaster.
>
>>>and why would she bring back Hawkeye and not any of the others
>>>> she killed like, say, her husband...the whole storyline was just
>>>> poorly conceived from start to finish.
>>>
>>>For the Vision, at least, we know Quicksilver never liked him. That's
>>>pretty important.
>>
>> ...and did he have something against Ant-Man too? Agatha Harkness?
>
>Everyone can't have the same roles. The desires of the few Wanda chose
>to make a reality were paramount. That causes a chain reaction of
>changes. I don't see why these people couldn't have existed outside of
>the roles they had in the MU.
>
>> Presumably, her kids had to come from somewhere.
>
>Some other guy? Wanda obviously wanted them back.
>
>What made Hawkeye so
>> special? Not that I'm complaining about having him back, mind
>> you...he's one of my favorite characters and he had a really stupid
>> and pointless death in yet another over-hyped and poorly written
>> story.
>
>I'm guessing Wanda felt sad about Hawkeye's death and so brought him
>back.

If you admit the whole series was a disaster then why continue to
defend it?
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

grinningdemon <grinningdemon RemoveThis @austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:oid4c3lp9mt09adgcfde24pnrbqmhsik0u@4ax.com:

> If you admit the whole series was a disaster then why continue to
> defend it?

My mother said I should have become a lawyer. Does that answer the
question?

The reality is that I like to make things work in my head. It's less
stressful and I get more out of the stories. I can't always make this
happen, partly because some things are too bad to "fix", but I try.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

On 15 Aug 2007 00:19:46 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
wrote:

>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.TakeThisOut@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>news:oid4c3lp9mt09adgcfde24pnrbqmhsik0u@4ax.com:
>
>> If you admit the whole series was a disaster then why continue to
>> defend it?
>
>My mother said I should have become a lawyer. Does that answer the
>question?
>
>The reality is that I like to make things work in my head. It's less
>stressful and I get more out of the stories. I can't always make this
>happen, partly because some things are too bad to "fix", but I try.

I do the same thing...when it's worth the effort...but, as in this
case, that is not always so. As such, I'd rather ignore it until the
retcon fairy makes it go away.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

grinningdemon <grinningdemon.TakeThisOut@austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:nkq4c39mfa69eo62dkoa44af2brq49ocu8@4ax.com:

> On 15 Aug 2007 00:19:46 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.TakeThisOut@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>news:oid4c3lp9mt09adgcfde24pnrbqmhsik0u@4ax.com:
>>
>>> If you admit the whole series was a disaster then why continue to
>>> defend it?
>>
>>My mother said I should have become a lawyer. Does that answer the
>>question?
>>
>>The reality is that I like to make things work in my head. It's less
>>stressful and I get more out of the stories. I can't always make this
>>happen, partly because some things are too bad to "fix", but I try.
>
> I do the same thing...when it's worth the effort...but, as in this
> case, that is not always so. As such, I'd rather ignore it until the
> retcon fairy makes it go away.

Hey, I've successfully ignored the idea that
Magneto-pretending-to-be-Xorn was actually
Xorn-pretending-to-be-Magneto-pretending-to-be-Xorn for years now. Why
change now? Incidentally, notice how unwieldy it gets when you add that
extra layer of a guy *pretending* to be himself? It's like if I said I
wasn't me but that I was someone else pretending to be me. It's
nonsensical.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

On 15 Aug 2007 05:21:17 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.DeleteThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>news:nkq4c39mfa69eo62dkoa44af2brq49ocu8@4ax.com:
>
>> On 15 Aug 2007 00:19:46 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.DeleteThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>>>news:oid4c3lp9mt09adgcfde24pnrbqmhsik0u@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> If you admit the whole series was a disaster then why continue to
>>>> defend it?
>>>
>>>My mother said I should have become a lawyer. Does that answer the
>>>question?
>>>
>>>The reality is that I like to make things work in my head. It's less
>>>stressful and I get more out of the stories. I can't always make this
>>>happen, partly because some things are too bad to "fix", but I try.
>>
>> I do the same thing...when it's worth the effort...but, as in this
>> case, that is not always so. As such, I'd rather ignore it until the
>> retcon fairy makes it go away.
>
>Hey, I've successfully ignored the idea that
>Magneto-pretending-to-be-Xorn was actually
>Xorn-pretending-to-be-Magneto-pretending-to-be-Xorn for years now. Why
>change now? Incidentally, notice how unwieldy it gets when you add that
>extra layer of a guy *pretending* to be himself? It's like if I said I
>wasn't me but that I was someone else pretending to be me. It's
>nonsensical.

I'll do you one better...I ignore all X-Men stories written by Grant
Morrison and Chuck Austen and, therefore, that particular problem has
never even come up for me.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

grinningdemon <grinningdemon.TakeThisOut@austin.rr.com> wrote in
news:hjm7c3146ve04ukoufr9a5m8ma4qbpimp2@4ax.com:

> On 15 Aug 2007 05:21:17 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
> wrote:

>>Hey, I've successfully ignored the idea that
>>Magneto-pretending-to-be-Xorn was actually
>>Xorn-pretending-to-be-Magneto-pretending-to-be-Xorn for years now.
>>Why change now? Incidentally, notice how unwieldy it gets when you
>>add that extra layer of a guy *pretending* to be himself? It's like
>>if I said I wasn't me but that I was someone else pretending to be me.
>> It's nonsensical.
>
> I'll do you one better...I ignore all X-Men stories written by Grant
> Morrison and Chuck Austen and, therefore, that particular problem has
> never even come up for me.

Well, no, because that requires ignoring some of the best stories the
X-Men have ever had. Morrison was what made me decide to read X-books
again.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22) 

On 16 Aug 2007 17:02:21 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
wrote:

>grinningdemon <grinningdemon.DeleteThis@austin.rr.com> wrote in
>news:hjm7c3146ve04ukoufr9a5m8ma4qbpimp2@4ax.com:
>
>> On 15 Aug 2007 05:21:17 GMT, Dan McEwen <ferroSPAMboy.DeleteThis@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>>Hey, I've successfully ignored the idea that
>>>Magneto-pretending-to-be-Xorn was actually
>>>Xorn-pretending-to-be-Magneto-pretending-to-be-Xorn for years now.
>>>Why change now? Incidentally, notice how unwieldy it gets when you
>>>add that extra layer of a guy *pretending* to be himself? It's like
>>>if I said I wasn't me but that I was someone else pretending to be me.
>>> It's nonsensical.
>>
>> I'll do you one better...I ignore all X-Men stories written by Grant
>> Morrison and Chuck Austen and, therefore, that particular problem has
>> never even come up for me.
>
>Well, no, because that requires ignoring some of the best stories the
>X-Men have ever had. Morrison was what made me decide to read X-books
>again.

That's your opinion...mine is that Morrison, while probably the most
immaginative writer in comics, is absolutely terrible at
characterization and, therefore, one of the worst things to ever
happen to the X-Men.

He is best on books that he created, rebooted, or revived after a long
dormancy (i.e. Animal Man)...the only time he's any good on
established books is when he takes a story-driven approach like he did
with JLA and, for the most part, with Batman...he has pretty much left
character development out of these books and it works perfectly
because pretty much all of those characters have other books where
that can happen...the X-Men aren't like that.
 >> Stay informed about: Endangered Species Chapter 7 (from X-Factor 22)