FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE

In article <none-C493F2.23050721052004.RemoveThis@news5.west.earthlink.net>,
Warchild <none.RemoveThis@none.com> wrote:
 >In article <2h868pF8v5jsU1.RemoveThis@uni-berlin.de>, tr2267.RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
 >
  >> I have noticed that a scene from the FOTR VHS theatrical release was
  >> _cut_ from the FOTR EE DVD. When they first meet Haldir in the
  >> theatrical release Aragorn tells him in Elvish "Haldir of Lorien. We
  >> come here for help...". That same scene is missing from the EE.
  >>
  >> Until now I had erroneously assumed that the LOTR EE versions were
  >> supersets of the theatrical versions. I wonder what other scenes were
  >> cut from the LOTR EE versions?
 >
 >That was never the case - the EE's were extensively re-edited. In many
 >cases alternate takes were used of scenes that were present in both
 >movies. Scenes that were left out between the Theatrical Editions and
 >the Extended Editions were scenes that served to link over sequences
 >later included.

Anyone know of a master list of the alternate takes in the theatrical
releases?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE 

Warchild <none DeleteThis @none.com> wrote in news:none-C493F2.23050721052004
@news5.west.earthlink.net:

 > In article <2h868pF8v5jsU1 DeleteThis @uni-berlin.de>, tr2267 DeleteThis @hotmail.com wrote:
 >
  >> I have noticed that a scene from the FOTR VHS theatrical release was
  >> _cut_ from the FOTR EE DVD. When they first meet Haldir in the
  >> theatrical release Aragorn tells him in Elvish "Haldir of Lorien. We
  >> come here for help...". That same scene is missing from the EE.
  >>
  >> Until now I had erroneously assumed that the LOTR EE versions were
  >> supersets of the theatrical versions. I wonder what other scenes were
  >> cut from the LOTR EE versions?
 >
 > That was never the case - the EE's were extensively re-edited. In many
 > cases alternate takes were used of scenes that were present in both
 > movies. Scenes that were left out between the Theatrical Editions and
 > the Extended Editions were scenes that served to link over sequences
 > later included.
 >

In fact, actors were called back to make aditional footage for the EE of
the DVD's, something that can't be discussed about the films is that
they've been shot with extreme atention to details and quality.

Too bad that, for my taste, the story is way to altered from the original,
specially in TT and ROTK, I'll never understand why Faramir's character was
turned into a traumatized-little-brother and Denethor into a crazy maniac,
and above all, I'll never understand Aragorn's fleeing from his heritage
until the very last moment when he was so proud of it in the books, nor
Frodo's attitude towards Sam supposedly induced by Gollum. I don't know
where PJ took those concepts from, I'm among those who think that the films
would have had the same success (if not greater) if they had kept closer to
the real story. Still, I'm glad they were made, I enjoyed them.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE 

Naryldor <naryldorNOSPAM DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

<snippo>

 >In fact, actors were called back to make aditional footage for the EE of
 >the DVD's, something that can't be discussed about the films is that
 >they've been shot with extreme atention to details and quality.
 >
 >Too bad that, for my taste, the story is way to altered from the original,
 >specially in TT and ROTK, I'll never understand why Faramir's character was
 >turned into a traumatized-little-brother and Denethor into a crazy maniac,
 >and above all, I'll never understand Aragorn's fleeing from his heritage
 >until the very last moment when he was so proud of it in the books, nor
 >Frodo's attitude towards Sam supposedly induced by Gollum. I don't know
 >where PJ took those concepts from, I'm among those who think that the films
 >would have had the same success (if not greater) if they had kept closer to
 >the real story. Still, I'm glad they were made, I enjoyed them.

When I watched the first two "specials" on the coaster for the
/LOTR:ROTK/ DVD, I found myself yelling at the screen every time PJ
claimed he had read /LOTR/. Oh, sure, he read it. He just didn't pay
any attention to what he was reading. He was too busy identifying the
action scenes.

I noticed in the specials, and even in the trailers, even in the
"supertrailer", a lot of stuff not in the movie that I would have
liked to see and which would not have taken much time. Merry's
swearing fealty to Theoden, for example, could have replaced the
entire "second journey of Arwen" sequence (the important part of which
could have become a dream she had in Rivendell). On the positive side,
it appears that we were spared a /lot/ of additional nonsense about
Arwen's "illness". Probably be in the EE, though. I guess that's the
price purchasers of the EE will pay to see The Voice of Saruman!

I also noticed a curious omission when the history of film adaptations
was given -- Bakshi was not mentioned. Indeed, there was no mention of
Bakshi in the first two specials at all. Apparently, PJ has decided
that his is the /only/ attempt to actually be made. This is almost as
funny as his claim to have read the relevant chapters during shooting.

I gave up on the National Geographic "special" when they tried to
compare Aragorn with William Wallace on the ground the "neither wanted
power". Only in PJ's dreams did Aragorn not want to be King.

And I really missed the preview trailer for the EE. It would have been
the high point of the coaster.
--
I still mostly download on Saturdays & upload on Sundays. Patience is a virtue.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE 

In article <ij1kb01drlonbmsf1ke902gh320sn2ccp8.RemoveThis@4ax.com>,
pperson.RemoveThis@earthlink.net.invalid says...
 >
 > When I watched the first two "specials" on the coaster for the
 > /LOTR:ROTK/ DVD, I found myself yelling at the screen every time PJ
 > claimed he had read /LOTR/. Oh, sure, he read it. He just didn't pay
 > any attention to what he was reading. He was too busy identifying the
 > action scenes.

Oh, whatever. He obviously did read the books. Probably mostly when
he was a kid. He took away his favorite scenes, when he was a kid.
His wife obviously read them more deeply as an adult. I get so tired
of people claiming that PJ never read the books or was too stupid to
understand them. If that were the case, we wouldn't have gotten the
movies at all.


 > liked to see and which would not have taken much time. Merry's
 > swearing fealty to Theoden, for example, could have replaced the
 > entire "second journey of Arwen" sequence (the important part of which
 > could have become a dream she had in Rivendell).

It really couldn't have, because they state, multiple times!, that
they had to go to great lengths to continue Aragorn and Arwen's love
story with the lovers on opposite sides of the world. Something
Tolkien didn't do at all, but was necessary to keep people invested
in their relationship.

 > I also noticed a curious omission when the history of film adaptations
 > was given -- Bakshi was not mentioned. Indeed, there was no mention of
 > Bakshi in the first two specials at all. Apparently, PJ has decided
 > that his is the /only/ attempt to actually be made. This is almost as
 > funny as his claim to have read the relevant chapters during shooting.

Now we get to pick on your memory and comprehension, since you're
apparently not quick enough to pick up on the fact that he states in
the commentaries that a scene was shot exactly like the scene from a
previous movie as a tribute.

Michelle
Flutist
--
Drift on a river, That flows through my arms
Drift as I'm singing to you
I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm
And holding you, I'm smiling, too
Here in my arms, Safe from all harm
Holding you, I'm smiling, too
-- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE 

Paul S. Person <pperson.RemoveThis@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote:

 > When I watched the first two "specials" on the coaster for the
 > /LOTR:ROTK/ DVD, I found myself yelling at the screen every time PJ
 > claimed he had read /LOTR/. Oh, sure, he read it. He just didn't pay
 > any attention to what he was reading. He was too busy identifying the
 > action scenes.

Coaster? Oh, the DVD-cum-coaster...
Yelling at the screen?

<snip>

 > I gave up on the National Geographic "special" when they tried to
 > compare Aragorn with William Wallace on the ground the "neither wanted
 > power". Only in PJ's dreams did Aragorn not want to be King.

<evil grin>

You've inspired me to list all the other silly bits to see what you
missed. I'll put that in another, suitably titled, thread.

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE 

"Michelle J. Haines" <mhaines RemoveThis @io.nanc.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:MPG.1b23b88848656d598a4cc@news.Qwest.net...
 > In article <ij1kb01drlonbmsf1ke902gh320sn2ccp8 RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
 > pperson RemoveThis @earthlink.net.invalid says...
  > >
  > > When I watched the first two "specials" on the coaster for the
  > > /LOTR:ROTK/ DVD, I found myself yelling at the screen every time PJ
  > > claimed he had read /LOTR/. Oh, sure, he read it. He just didn't pay
  > > any attention to what he was reading. He was too busy identifying the
  > > action scenes.
 >
 > Oh, whatever. He obviously did read the books. Probably mostly when
 > he was a kid. He took away his favorite scenes, when he was a kid.
 > His wife obviously read them more deeply as an adult. I get so tired
 > of people claiming that PJ never read the books or was too stupid to
 > understand them. If that were the case, we wouldn't have gotten the
 > movies at all.

We know from the RotK extras why PJ decided to do the
movies. He was doing special effects for the Frighteners(?)
and started thinking what kind of story would have greatest
opportunities to take evrything out of the new special effects
technology. Answer - LotR. So there you have it. LotR was
done out of love for special effects, not the story.

Morgil<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE 

In article <c9f5sv$43u$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx.RemoveThis@hotmail.com
says...
 >
 > We know from the RotK extras why PJ decided to do the
 > movies. He was doing special effects for the Frighteners(?)
 > and started thinking what kind of story would have greatest
 > opportunities to take evrything out of the new special effects
 > technology. Answer - LotR. So there you have it. LotR was
 > done out of love for special effects, not the story.

So, you've taken ONE statement out of why he made the movies, and
made it the definitive and only reason? He also said multiple times
throughout the commentaries on the other two movies that he always
loved the books, and always wanted to make movies out of them. Human
beings, not being cardboard cut-outs, have occasionally been known to
have more than one motivation for their actions.

I can certainly accept that the LOTR fan in him always wanted to do
the movies, and the movie-maker in him thought this was a good time
to have good enough special effects to actually do it.

I don't think you're assertion that it was his OWNLY reason for doing
the movies holds water. You can certainly go on feeling aggrieved
about it, though.

Michelle
Flutist
--
Drift on a river, That flows through my arms
Drift as I'm singing to you
I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm
And holding you, I'm smiling, too
Here in my arms, Safe from all harm
Holding you, I'm smiling, too
-- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE 

"Michelle J. Haines" <mhaines.DeleteThis@io.nanc.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:MPG.1b24ed6f7263f67998a4d0@news.Qwest.net...
> In article <c9f5sv$43u$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx.DeleteThis@hotmail.com
> says...
> >
> > We know from the RotK extras why PJ decided to do the
> > movies. He was doing special effects for the Frighteners(?)
> > and started thinking what kind of story would have greatest
> > opportunities to take evrything out of the new special effects
> > technology. Answer - LotR. So there you have it. LotR was
> > done out of love for special effects, not the story.
>
> So, you've taken ONE statement out of why he made the movies, and
> made it the definitive and only reason?

No, but that was the first and foremost reason, and it goes
a long way explaining why the movies are so dominated by
exagerrated special effect scenes.

He also said multiple times
> throughout the commentaries on the other two movies that he always
> loved the books, and always wanted to make movies out of them.

Nope. He said he wished *somebody* would make it to a movie.

Morgil
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE 

In article <c9ffpt$as0$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx DeleteThis @hotmail.com
says...
>
> No, but that was the first and foremost reason, and it goes
> a long way explaining why the movies are so dominated by
> exagerrated special effect scenes.

I haven't seen it yet, and since you're not an objective observer,
I'm not going to take your interpretation at face value.

Michelle
Flutist

--
Drift on a river, That flows through my arms
Drift as I'm singing to you
I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm
And holding you, I'm smiling, too
Here in my arms, Safe from all harm
Holding you, I'm smiling, too
-- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99]
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE 

"Michelle J. Haines" <mhaines DeleteThis @io.nanc.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:MPG.1b24f26f5f8b667798a4d6@news.Qwest.net...
> In article <c9ffpt$as0$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx DeleteThis @hotmail.com
> says...
> >
> > No, but that was the first and foremost reason, and it goes
> > a long way explaining why the movies are so dominated by
> > exagerrated special effect scenes.
>
> I haven't seen it yet, and since you're not an objective observer,
> I'm not going to take your interpretation at face value.

You seem to have surprisingly strong opinnions about
something you haven't even seen. Not that I'd question
your objectivity or anything <g>

Morgil
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE 

On Mon, 31 May 2004 08:43:19 -0600, in a fit of madness Michelle J.
Haines <mhaines.DeleteThis@io.nanc.com> declared:

>In article <c9ffpt$as0$1@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi>, morestelx.DeleteThis@hotmail.com
>says...
>>
>> No, but that was the first and foremost reason, and it goes
>> a long way explaining why the movies are so dominated by
>> exagerrated special effect scenes.
>
>I haven't seen it yet, and since you're not an objective observer,
>I'm not going to take your interpretation at face value.

There's no such thing as an objective observer on a subjective issue.

Now me, I'll say I got my money's worth out of two of the three films
(not TTT).

Of course, somebody else bought my tickets, so that's just converting my
time into money here.

ROTK was my favorite, because it had no aspirations. It never tried for
a minute to be more than idiotic popcorn movie action, so it was easy to
accept it on those terms. Still, we could have done with a few more
falls from heights.

--
R. Dan Henry
danhenry.DeleteThis@inreach.com
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE 

"Paul S. Person" wrote:

 > it appears that we were spared a /lot/ of additional nonsense about
 > Arwen's "illness". Probably be in the EE, though. I guess that's the
 > price purchasers of the EE will pay to see The Voice of Saruman!

Arwen, being an Elf, can die of sheer grief and sadness, such as that
caused by the world falling under the dominion of Sauron. I do think
that was a bit off of PJ to put in the film, however.

-JJ<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE 

Jussi Jaatinen <1.1.DeleteThis@nowhere.org> firmly declared:
 > "Paul S. Person" wrote:
 >
  >> it appears that we were spared a /lot/ of additional nonsense
  >> about Arwen's "illness". Probably be in the EE, though. I guess
  >> that's the price purchasers of the EE will pay to see The Voice
  >> of Saruman!
 >
 > Arwen, being an Elf, can die of sheer grief and sadness, such as
 > that caused by the world falling under the dominion of Sauron. I
 > do think that was a bit off of PJ to put in the film, however.

I disliked the Arwen's illness bit as well. It felt like a puzzle
piece that didn't quite fit. I can only come up with one
explanation that fits the storyline:

Arwen is dying because Frodo is dying (Elrond says "Arwen's life is
now tied to the fate of the Ring"). This could be read as a link
to Frodo, which occurred when she spoke at the Ford of Bruinen:
"What grace is given to me, let it pass to him." I'm betting this
connection will be made in the EE version. It also allows for
Frodo's 'grace' at the very end.

And Walsh/Boyens will claim on the commentary that the whole idea
is taken from Arwen's words to Frodo in Minas Tirith, when she
gives him the white jewel. "But in my stead you shall go,
Ring-bearer, when the time comes, and if you then desire it."
Which I'm kinda okay with, actually. Or I would be, if it had been
made explicit in the film.

We'll see if the EE DVD bears out my theory.

- Ciaran S.
---------------------------------------------------------
Ros.: What are you playing at?
Guild.: Words, words. They're all we have to go on.
- t.stoppard<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FOTR theatrical edition scene cut from EE