FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay!

steve.RemoveThis@antispam.sforbesa.cix.co.uk (Stephen Forbes) wrote in message news:<memo.20041117214224.56537B.RemoveThis@sforbesa.compulink.co.uk>...
 > In article <adbf5bc1.0411170036.72c90ef2.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>,
 > abdul.ahad.RemoveThis@ntlworld.com (AA Institute) wrote:
 >
  > > As you can see, this epic concept of living inside an asteroid and
  > > using it to voyage to the eternally distant stars over a time span of
  > > 50,000 years is about as *revolutionary* as when Nicolaus Copernicus
  > > first brought about his revolution of a Sun centered universe!
 >
 > This sounds a lot like Harry Harrison's Captive Universe - © 1969 and a
 > few others which I cannot remember off hand.
 >
 > Stephen

My world is based within a cylindrical interior inside an asteroid
which allows rivers to meander their way across the "sky" flowing from
horizon to horizon, under artificial gravity... acres of trees and
forests of vast *actual* surface area, yet neatly contained within a
natural rocky environment that allows trees to grow their roots from
the inside outwards...keeping the whole experience "Earth-like". Just
the sort of comforts one is sure to require in voyaging to our
immensely distant, *neighbouring* solar system one day.

I believe those are the *new* elements in my concept. Boy, it sure
will be fun living in a world of that kind, when we get to build it
some day!

Abdul<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay! 

AA Institute wrote:
 > steve.RemoveThis@antispam.sforbesa.cix.co.uk (Stephen Forbes) wrote in message news:<memo.20041117214224.56537B.RemoveThis@sforbesa.compulink.co.uk>...
 >
  >>In article <adbf5bc1.0411170036.72c90ef2.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>,
  >>abdul.ahad@ntlworld.com (AA Institute) wrote:
  >>
  >>
   >>>As you can see, this epic concept of living inside an asteroid and
   >>>using it to voyage to the eternally distant stars over a time span of
   >>>50,000 years is about as *revolutionary* as when Nicolaus Copernicus
   >>>first brought about his revolution of a Sun centered universe!
  >>
  >>This sounds a lot like Harry Harrison's Captive Universe - © 1969 and a
  >>few others which I cannot remember off hand.
  >>
  >>Stephen
 >
 >
 > My world is based within a cylindrical interior inside an asteroid
 > which allows rivers to meander their way across the "sky" flowing from
 > horizon to horizon, under artificial gravity... acres of trees and
 > forests of vast *actual* surface area, yet neatly contained within a
 > natural rocky environment that allows trees to grow their roots from
 > the inside outwards...keeping the whole experience "Earth-like". Just
 > the sort of comforts one is sure to require in voyaging to our
 > immensely distant, *neighbouring* solar system one day.
 >
 > I believe those are the *new* elements in my concept. Boy, it sure
 > will be fun living in a world of that kind, when we get to build it
 > some day!
 >
 > Abdul

New, as in NEW?
<http://www.google.com/search?q=Rendezvous+With+Rama>

TBerk<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay! 

"AA Institute" <abdul.ahad DeleteThis @ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:adbf5bc1.0411210225.46830adb@posting.google.com...
 >
 > My world is based within a cylindrical interior inside an asteroid
 > which allows rivers to meander their way across the "sky" flowing from
 > horizon to horizon, under artificial gravity... acres of trees and
 > forests of vast *actual* surface area, yet neatly contained within a
 > natural rocky environment that allows trees to grow their roots from
 > the inside outwards...keeping the whole experience "Earth-like". Just
 > the sort of comforts one is sure to require in voyaging to our
 > immensely distant, *neighbouring* solar system one day.

You don't read a lot of sci-fi, do you? That concept is, oh, 50 - 60
years old by now.

Have a great day!

Ami
"Once upon a time, there was light in my life; now there's only love in
the dark. Nothing I can do; total exclipse of the heart." -- Bonnie
Tyler<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay! 

In article <adbf5bc1.0411210225.46830adb DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
AA Institute <abdul.ahad DeleteThis @ntlworld.com> wrote:
 >steve@antispam.sforbesa.cix.co.uk (Stephen Forbes) wrote in message news:<memo.20041117214224.56537B DeleteThis @sforbesa.compulink.co.uk>...
  >> In article <adbf5bc1.0411170036.72c90ef2 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
  >> abdul.ahad DeleteThis @ntlworld.com (AA Institute) wrote:
  >>
   >> > As you can see, this epic concept of living inside an asteroid and
   >> > using it to voyage to the eternally distant stars over a time span of
   >> > 50,000 years is about as *revolutionary* as when Nicolaus Copernicus
   >> > first brought about his revolution of a Sun centered universe!
  >>
  >> This sounds a lot like Harry Harrison's Captive Universe - © 1969 and a
  >> few others which I cannot remember off hand.
  >>
  >> Stephen
 >
 >My world is based within a cylindrical interior inside an asteroid
 >which allows rivers to meander their way across the "sky" flowing from
 >horizon to horizon, under artificial gravity... acres of trees and
 >forests of vast *actual* surface area, yet neatly contained within a
 >natural rocky environment that allows trees to grow their roots from
 >the inside outwards...keeping the whole experience "Earth-like". Just
 >the sort of comforts one is sure to require in voyaging to our
 >immensely distant, *neighbouring* solar system one day.
 >
 >I believe those are the *new* elements in my concept. Boy, it sure
 >will be fun living in a world of that kind, when we get to build it
 >some day!
 >
  I am looking at the plates from _Islands in the Sky_
(Cole & Cox, Chilton, 1964). Two of the illustrations (the
last one and the one two illos before) feature views of the
inside of an asteroid colony, with acres of trees (actually,
square miles of etc), forests of etc and there is a big old
river meandering across the midpoint of the inner cylinder.

  So, not new. Ancient, in fact.
--
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/" target="_blank">http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.marryanamerican.ca" target="_blank">http://www.marryanamerican.ca</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay! 

"Ami Fairchild" <amif RemoveThis @delphidude.com> wrote in message news:<30bqfbF2ugutvU1 RemoveThis @uni-berlin.de>...
 > "AA Institute" <abdul.ahad RemoveThis @ntlworld.com> wrote in message
 > news:adbf5bc1.0411210225.46830adb@posting.google.com...
  > >
  > > My world is based within a cylindrical interior inside an asteroid
  > > which allows rivers to meander their way across the "sky" flowing from
  > > horizon to horizon, under artificial gravity... acres of trees and
  > > forests of vast *actual* surface area, yet neatly contained within a
  > > natural rocky environment that allows trees to grow their roots from
  > > the inside outwards...keeping the whole experience "Earth-like". Just
  > > the sort of comforts one is sure to require in voyaging to our
  > > immensely distant, *neighbouring* solar system one day.
 >
 > You don't read a lot of sci-fi, do you?
 >
That you're right about. Hell, I wasn't aware of what was in these old
novels. I knew "Rendezvous with Rama" had some alien craft with a
biosphere... but I thought well, that could mean anything...

So when is "Rendezvous with Rama" coming out on the big screen?

Abdul<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay! 

jdnicoll RemoveThis @panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in message news:<cnqlnu$sq8$1@panix3.panix.com>...
 > In article <adbf5bc1.0411210225.46830adb RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
 > AA Institute <abdul.ahad RemoveThis @ntlworld.com> wrote:
  > >steve@antispam.sforbesa.cix.co.uk (Stephen Forbes) wrote in message news:<memo.20041117214224.56537B RemoveThis @sforbesa.compulink.co.uk>...
   > >> In article <adbf5bc1.0411170036.72c90ef2 RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
   > >> abdul.ahad RemoveThis @ntlworld.com (AA Institute) wrote:
   > >>
   > >> > As you can see, this epic concept of living inside an asteroid and
   > >> > using it to voyage to the eternally distant stars over a time span of
   > >> > 50,000 years is about as *revolutionary* as when Nicolaus Copernicus
   > >> > first brought about his revolution of a Sun centered universe!
   > >>
   > >> This sounds a lot like Harry Harrison's Captive Universe - © 1969 and a
   > >> few others which I cannot remember off hand.
   > >>
   > >> Stephen
  > >
  > >My world is based within a cylindrical interior inside an asteroid
  > >which allows rivers to meander their way across the "sky" flowing from
  > >horizon to horizon, under artificial gravity... acres of trees and
  > >forests of vast *actual* surface area, yet neatly contained within a
  > >natural rocky environment that allows trees to grow their roots from
  > >the inside outwards...keeping the whole experience "Earth-like". Just
  > >the sort of comforts one is sure to require in voyaging to our
  > >immensely distant, *neighbouring* solar system one day.
  > >
  > >I believe those are the *new* elements in my concept. Boy, it sure
  > >will be fun living in a world of that kind, when we get to build it
  > >some day!
  > >
  > I am looking at the plates from _Islands in the Sky_
 > (Cole & Cox, Chilton, 1964). Two of the illustrations (the
 > last one and the one two illos before) feature views of the
 > inside of an asteroid colony, with acres of trees (actually,
 > square miles of etc), forests of etc and there is a big old
 > river meandering across the midpoint of the inner cylinder.
 >
  > So, not new. Ancient, in fact.

Its still a good concept, though.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay! 

In article <adbf5bc1.0411220653.4fab5f5c DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
AA Institute <abdul.ahad DeleteThis @ntlworld.com> wrote:
 >jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in message news:<cnqlnu$sq8$1@panix3.panix.com>...
  >> In article <adbf5bc1.0411210225.46830adb DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
  >> AA Institute <abdul.ahad DeleteThis @ntlworld.com> wrote:
   >> >steve@antispam.sforbesa.cix.co.uk (Stephen Forbes) wrote in message news:<memo.20041117214224.56537B DeleteThis @sforbesa.compulink.co.uk>...
   >> >> In article <adbf5bc1.0411170036.72c90ef2 DeleteThis @posting.google.com>,
   >> >> abdul.ahad DeleteThis @ntlworld.com (AA Institute) wrote:
   >> >>
   >> >> > As you can see, this epic concept of living inside an asteroid and
   >> >> > using it to voyage to the eternally distant stars over a time span of
   >> >> > 50,000 years is about as *revolutionary* as when Nicolaus Copernicus
   >> >> > first brought about his revolution of a Sun centered universe!
   >> >>
   >> >> This sounds a lot like Harry Harrison's Captive Universe - © 1969 and a
   >> >> few others which I cannot remember off hand.
   >> >>
   >> >> Stephen
   >> >
   >> >My world is based within a cylindrical interior inside an asteroid
   >> >which allows rivers to meander their way across the "sky" flowing from
   >> >horizon to horizon, under artificial gravity... acres of trees and
   >> >forests of vast *actual* surface area, yet neatly contained within a
   >> >natural rocky environment that allows trees to grow their roots from
   >> >the inside outwards...keeping the whole experience "Earth-like". Just
   >> >the sort of comforts one is sure to require in voyaging to our
   >> >immensely distant, *neighbouring* solar system one day.
   >> >
   >> >I believe those are the *new* elements in my concept. Boy, it sure
   >> >will be fun living in a world of that kind, when we get to build it
   >> >some day!
   >> >
   >> I am looking at the plates from _Islands in the Sky_
  >> (Cole & Cox, Chilton, 1964). Two of the illustrations (the
  >> last one and the one two illos before) feature views of the
  >> inside of an asteroid colony, with acres of trees (actually,
  >> square miles of etc), forests of etc and there is a big old
  >> river meandering across the midpoint of the inner cylinder.
  >>
   >> So, not new. Ancient, in fact.
 >
 >Its still a good concept, though.

  Well, it runs into a serious problem if you spin for
gravity. The tensile strength of rock (when it is being pulled
apart as opposed to being compressed) is actually pretty crappy.
If you spin the rock, odds are very good it will begin shedding
fragments before it gets up to 1 g.

  As far as I can tell, there are no known rocks with spins
fast enough to create centrifugal effect acceleration larger than
the local gravity (And if I am wrong, I expect a flurry of corrections).

--
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/" target="_blank">http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.marryanamerican.ca" target="_blank">http://www.marryanamerican.ca</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay! 

jdnicoll.RemoveThis@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in message
   > >> So, not new. Ancient, in fact.
  > >
  > >Its still a good concept, though.
 >
  > Well, it runs into a serious problem if you spin for
 > gravity. The tensile strength of rock (when it is being pulled
 > apart as opposed to being compressed) is actually pretty crappy.
 > If you spin the rock, odds are very good it will begin shedding
 > fragments before it gets up to 1 g.

I am no expert on the tensile strength of rocky asteroids but I think
it will vary depending on the 'class' of rock you use. Some have a
high nickel/iron content, hence will be tougher. I would have thought
in a totally frictionless vacuum environment with no external tidal
forces, there would be no danger of shedding fragments as a result of
moderate spin.

The rotation speed "v" would be v = (Rg)^0.5. So for my Aster-Com
design where the radius of the internal biosphere floor is about 3
miles (4.8 km), v = (4800 * 9.^0.5 = 217 metres/second - that's
pretty fast by current structural engineering standards. The beauty of
it is, once you've achieved that level of spin using the starship
thrusters, it will be maintained virtually indefinitely.
 >
  > As far as I can tell, there are no known rocks with spins
 > fast enough to create centrifugal effect acceleration larger than
 > the local gravity (And if I am wrong, I expect a flurry of corrections).

That's not right, it's governed by the above equation for rotation and
my example illustrates this. "the local gravity" (the natural gravity
emanating from the material mass) is pretty weak in the size of
asteroid that I have used for my ship design.

Abdul<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay! 

jdnicoll.DeleteThis@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote in message

 > If you spin the rock, odds are very good it will begin shedding
 > fragments before it gets up to 1 g.
 >
On further thought...you have got me seriously thinking! I've done the
rotation speed calcs and <<perhaps>> a synthetic construction would be
better. I have read some articles that stipulate how comets (and
presumably also some less dense asteroids) could break up on
approaching within the "Roche Limit" around a planet under the
gravitational tidal forces. Since my "First Ark to Alpha Centauri"
concept is dependent on gravity assisted fly-by's of giant outer
planets like Jupiter and Saturn for intial departure from our solar
system, there is a serious danger of fragmentation!

A sci-fi film may be only fiction... but one has to get the science
right.

cheers
AA<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay! 

On 22 Nov 2004 12:32:32 -0500, jdnicoll.RemoveThis@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
<snip>
 >
  > Well, it runs into a serious problem if you spin for
 >gravity. The tensile strength of rock (when it is being pulled
 >apart as opposed to being compressed) is actually pretty crappy.
 >If you spin the rock, odds are very good it will begin shedding
 >fragments before it gets up to 1 g.
 >
  > As far as I can tell, there are no known rocks with spins
 >fast enough to create centrifugal effect acceleration larger than
 >the local gravity (And if I am wrong, I expect a flurry of corrections).


The asteroid would have to have a high nickel-iron content. Greg Bear used
Juno in Eon, to create the Thistledown. He only spun it to .6g.
Now, if we could just get that magical corridor to infinity stuck onto the
end of it, we got it made!

--
"It's been a rough day. I got up this morning ... put on a shirt and a
button fell off. I picked up my briefcase, and the handle came off.
I'm afraid to go to the bathroom." - Rodney Dangerfield<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay! 

Shane Paul <snafu.DeleteThis@fubar.com> wrote in message

> The asteroid would have to have a high nickel-iron content. Greg Bear used
> Juno in Eon, to create the Thistledown. He only spun it to .6g.
> Now, if we could just get that magical corridor to infinity stuck onto the
> end of it, we got it made!

Sod that. I have scrapped my asteroid plans entirely! If there is a
true emergency situation for our planet, I think *costs* would go out
the window... and collaboratively the World Space Agency would spend
$TRILLIONS building a tough ship out of state-of-the-art materials.

So the ship can't be called the "Aster-Com" any more can it?
(Aster-Com stood for 'Asteroid-Comet' as the method of propulsion to
Alpha Cen).

I hereby name my *revolutionary* starship concept the "Celestial
Titanic" as I have been meaning to do for a while! It's a maiden
voyage, carrying the *first* travellers from Earth (our Earth) to "New
Earth", a planet circling one of the stars across the interstellar
ocean in the Alpha Centauri triple star system... so what other name
would you give it?! There's a MASSIVE parallel here with the Titanic,
which was sailing to New York across the Atlantic Ocean on a maiden
voyage.

It's done! If the copyright holders of the movie "Titanic" want to sue
me... I'm ready.

cheers
Abdul Ahad
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay! 

In article <adbf5bc1.0411231953.3222dbbd DeleteThis @posting.google.com>, AA
Institute wrote:
> I have read some articles that stipulate how comets (and
> presumably also some less dense asteroids) could break up on
> approaching within the "Roche Limit" around a planet under the
> gravitational tidal forces. Since my "First Ark to Alpha Centauri"
> concept is dependent on gravity assisted fly-by's of giant outer
> planets like Jupiter and Saturn for intial departure from our solar
> system, there is a serious danger of fragmentation!
>
Not a *huge* problem.
The Roche limit is flexible on, effectively, the tensile
strength of your material. Remember "Neutron Star"? Well, the reason
Bey's predecessors got reduced to nasty stains on the bulk heads was
that the ship was *strong* enough to maintain the necessary difference
in gravitational pulls. Tidal effects come into existence when the
extremities of a body are constrained, by the body's tensile strength,
to follow the trajectory of a particle at the body's centre of mass.
(Well, that's one way of looking at it. There are others, but the maths
is the same, if less easily derived.)
Anyone have a figure offhand for the diameters of the shepherd
satellites of Saturn's "F" ring? It's a few 10s of km IIRC, and in that
environment they probably suffer sufficient ablation to *need* to be
acquiring material at a rate similar to their ablation rate (otherwise
they'd not be noticeable). That gives a rough probe of the position of
the Roche limit for Saturn and material of "dirty snowball"
composition. Compared to the other engineering you propose, putting an
asteroid into an overgrown string bag to keep it together is not a huge
problem.

--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: 57°10'11" N, 02°08'43" W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay! 

In article <adbf5bc1.0411240616.fc69cae.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>, AA
Institute wrote:
> I hereby name my *revolutionary* starship concept the "Celestial
> Titanic"
It's not revolutionary. It's a well-travelled path.

> There's a MASSIVE parallel here with the Titanic,
> which was sailing to New York across the Atlantic Ocean on a maiden
> voyage.
>
Err, a better comparison would be with the Viking longboats of
Leif Erricsson or Eric the Red, or with Columbus and the first few
Conquistador expeditions. *They* had no good idea of whether they'd face
significant opposition to their arrival, or of the technology of the
indigenes they'd meet. Or of whether they'd be able to make an economic/
environmental success of their colonisation efforts (note that the
Viking's New World colony failed, for whatever reason). By contrast, the
engineer of the Titanic knew as he sailed out of Cove that he'd be able
to get replacements of any equipment that failed in New York (be it a
main shaft bearing or a Bakelite knob), and the captain had no grounds
to fear being torpedoed on the approach to Long Island.
Whether the Titanic's captain expected to be eaten by the natives
of New York on his arrival is not recorded. But during the early
European colonisation efforts of the New World it was a common and
sincere concern of the colonisers.

--
Aidan Karley,
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: 57°10'11" N, 02°08'43" W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
 >> Stay informed about: FW: "First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - the Screenplay!