Fan fic question

On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Julianne Toomey-Kautz <JulianneTK.RemoveThis@Kautzlaw.com>
wrote:

>Hiya, all!
>
> It's been a bit quiet and I have a fan fiction question that I bet
>someone here knows the answer to. (Melissa had sent me a note a logn
>while ago and I just re-found it).
>
> Would there have been pews in the churches during Camber's time period?
> Or would the congregation have had to stand?
>
> I seem to recall reading in one of the Kelson books about them kneeling
>in what I thought were pews or stalls...

If Gwynedd follows the same pattern as mediaeval England, there would
have been stalls for the clergy and seats for the nobility, and maybe
some stone or wood benches around the sides of the nave for those who
couldn't stand because of age or disability, but most of the
congregation would have stood.

There are some late mediaeval examples of bench seating for the
congregation, but generally pews only started to be introduced into
churches after the Reformation, reflecting the change in type of
church service from the Mass to one focussed on the reading-desk and
the pulpit.

The upper classes would have had reserved seats - perhaps in the
chancel, or in a family chapel, a private gallery or at the very least
a pew at the front of the nave. In 17th/18th century England these
"faculty pews" were sometimes built onto the side of the church
(commonly with the family burial vault below), or took the form almost
of private rooms within the nave, enclosed with walls 5 - 6ft high and
a door, often comfortably furnished with chairs and sometimes even a
fireplace.

It became normal for the property-owners in any parish to have their
own reserved seats, and many churches were fitted out with box pews,
each appropriated to a particular house or family, with the poor
sitting on (backless) benches at the back, or in the middle of the
aisle. Some churches and chapels were financed by the "pew-rents"
paid for the reserved pews.

The uniform east-facing bench pews which we now regard as the normal
traditional seating in all churches are largely a result of the
movement in the mid 19th century for church restoration, one of the
motives being to provide more and better seating for the poor in the
hope that this would encourage better attendance.

--
John Pritchard JP.RemoveThis@john-pritchard.org.uk
Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself.
 >> Stay informed about: Fan fic question 

You all are great!

Now, the question is: does Gwynedd follow real-world usage or not? I
know who can answer that, but she's in the process of moving...
**********
blessed be, Julianne
 >> Stay informed about: Fan fic question 

> Now, the question is: does Gwynedd follow real-world usage or not? I know
> who can answer that, but she's in the process of moving...

True enough. And it's hard to say, as sometimes it does, and yet, others....


The move is supposed to be happening this week, is it not? Hope things go
smoothly.

-Mak
http://www.thirtytwopaws.com/mak
http://www.livejournal.com/users/2ndsoprano

http://www.chilicats.com


I have flying monkeys... and I am NOT afraid to use them!
 >> Stay informed about: Fan fic question 

On Mar 17, 7:29 pm, Julianne Toomey-Kautz <Juliann... RemoveThis @Kautzlaw.com>
wrote:
> Yes, but would hte nobles have some form of seating in Camber's time?
> And what about the religious orders, like the Michaelines? Especially
> if it was, for example, one of the first celebrations of Cambermas...
> (without givign away the plot).
>
> I seem to recall that Kelson and family have seats/pews in the church
> 200 years after Camber and Co.
> **************
> blessed be, Julianne

Yes, but Kelson and his family are of.... somewhat unique standing in
Gwynedd. =o) If anyone rates a seat in church, they do.

Melissa
 >> Stay informed about: Fan fic question 

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007, Julianne Toomey-Kautz <JulianneTK DeleteThis @Kautzlaw.com>
wrote:

>You all are great!
>
> Now, the question is: does Gwynedd follow real-world usage or not? I
>know who can answer that, but she's in the process of moving...
>**********
>blessed be, Julianne

I would have thought it likely that it does - the church of Gwynedd
seems to be generally similar to the Catholic church of the 10th/11th
centuries, and the Mass is certainly the principal service. I can't
think offhand of anything in the books which would be inconsistent
with the typical arrangement of a mediaeval cathedral or monastic/
collegiate church in England, the chancel having stalls for the choir
and clergy but the nave being open without seating.

Pews seem to go along with two factors: the increased emphasis on the
word, in readings and in sermons, which results in a static
congregation facing the pulpit and reading desk; and the rise of the
middle classes, who came to expect seating in church reflecting their
status. I don't believe we've seen either in Gwynedd.

--
John Pritchard JP DeleteThis @john-pritchard.org.uk
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.
 >> Stay informed about: Fan fic question 

Yes, but would hte nobles have some form of seating in Camber's time?
And what about the religious orders, like the Michaelines? Especially
if it was, for example, one of the first celebrations of Cambermas...
(without givign away the plot).

I seem to recall that Kelson and family have seats/pews in the church
200 years after Camber and Co.
**************
blessed be, Julianne

John Pritchard wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Mar 2007, Julianne Toomey-Kautz <JulianneTK DeleteThis @Kautzlaw.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>You all are great!
>>
>> Now, the question is: does Gwynedd follow real-world usage or not? I
>>know who can answer that, but she's in the process of moving...
>>**********
>>blessed be, Julianne
>
>
> I would have thought it likely that it does - the church of Gwynedd
> seems to be generally similar to the Catholic church of the 10th/11th
> centuries, and the Mass is certainly the principal service. I can't
> think offhand of anything in the books which would be inconsistent
> with the typical arrangement of a mediaeval cathedral or monastic/
> collegiate church in England, the chancel having stalls for the choir
> and clergy but the nave being open without seating.
>
> Pews seem to go along with two factors: the increased emphasis on the
> word, in readings and in sermons, which results in a static
> congregation facing the pulpit and reading desk; and the rise of the
> middle classes, who came to expect seating in church reflecting their
> status. I don't believe we've seen either in Gwynedd.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Fan fic question 

On Sat, 17 Mar 2007 15:31:05 GMT, "Mary Alice Kropp"
<journeyldy RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>According to what I've found, pews were not introduced to the churches until
>near the end of the fifteenth century.
>
They did have Kneelers, though, did they not? (don't know for sure,
but I've seen them in a couple History Channel thingies, like the fall
of the Roman Empire-type stuff.

Or were there only a couple rows of kneelers?

--

Wes Struebing

I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
 >> Stay informed about: Fan fic question