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Since: Jan 31, 2004 Posts: 2048
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:47 pm
Post subject: The Fate of Men (Silmarillion) Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)
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"For it is said that after the departure of the Valar there was silence,
and for an age Illuvatar sat alone in thought. Then he spoke and said:
'Behold I love the Earth, which shall be a mansion for the Quendi and
the Atani! [...] But to the Atani I will give a new gift.' Therefore he
willed that the hearts of Men should seek beyond the world and should
find no rest therein; but they should have a virtue to shape their life,
amid the powers and chances of the world, beyond the Music of the Ainur,
which is as fate to all things else; and of their operation everything
should be, in form and deed, completed, and the world fulfilled unto the
last and smallest." ('Of the Beginning of Days', The Silmarillion)
This last bit always has me tied in knots trying to understand it!
"...and of their operation everything should be, in form and deed,
completed, and the world fulfilled unto the last and smallest."
I assume that the 'their operation' refers to Men. The only other thing
it could conceivable refer to is the "powers and chances of the world".
1) "...and of [Men's] operation everything should be, in form and deed,
completed, and the world fulfilled unto the last and smallest."
2) "...and of [the] operation [of the powers and chances of the world]
everything should be, in form and deed, completed, and the world
fulfilled unto the last and smallest."
I always thought it meant that Men could be in form and deed completed,
but always thought that implied a predetermined fate for Men within Ea.
My latest thought is that it could be an oblique way of inmplying that
Men's part in the world is to fill in the gaps with their free will and
undetermined fates: [and the world fulfilled unto the last and
smallest].
In other words:
3) "...and of [the] operation [of the powers and chances of the world]
everything should be, in form and deed, completed [by Men], and the
world fulfilled [by Men] unto the last and smallest [detail]."
But that whole sentence still confuses the hell out of me.
Anyone?
Christopher
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Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard >> Stay informed about: The Fate of Men (Silmarillion) |
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Since: Feb 01, 2004 Posts: 27
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:57 pm
Post subject: Re: The Fate of Men (Silmarillion) [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Christopher Kreuzer wrote:
> "...and of their operation everything should be, in form and deed,
> completed, and the world fulfilled unto the last and smallest."
The way I read this is that humans, following their desires under free
will, will ultimately find some way to undo the Marring of the world,
thus making it "complete" and demonstrating the futility of Evil from
the beginning.
-JJ<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: The Fate of Men (Silmarillion) |
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