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[Film] Two Towers

 
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stealthy_tanuki

External


Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 6



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:17 am
Post subject: [Film] Two Towers
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)

Well, I finally got around to watching the whole thing. I'd missed
part of it the first time I saw it and I wanted to watch it on the big
screen to try to watch it just as a fantasy film. But it didn't work
out, so I just watched it on DVD

Now its been a year, but can anyone point me to a website that lists
the differences between the theatrical release and the different DVD
editions. I didn't remember the Ents at Isengard so much but that
might just be my memory.

Overall, not a bad movie in and of itself. Some continuity problems
and problems of timing and some very unrealistic stuff such as Gandalf
the Wizard from Snowy River at the siege of helm's deep (and why was
there a tribute to the olympics in that segment, and why did the orcs
sound like Wookies, and damn the Ents moved fast?)

There are some bits that are very well handled, the Golllum smeagol
split, the black gate (I was waiting for Frodo and the Cowardly lion
to grab to of the marching soldiers and, oh wait, wrong movie), and
other things.

But, frankly if PJ was going to depart to the degree he did from the
book, he would have been better served to depart more. The seams from
the book and the film show more and more .

And there are some things that I really missed, like Sam wondering
*why* gollum tried to get at the dead in the marsh, and Sam's musing
about the dead Harradrim, etc.

And there is a certain amount of stupidity in the film (Aragorn
falling 500 feet and floating in a river and not drowning, riding a
ladder into the mass or orcs on Helm's deep scarp, and always having a
bad hair day), as well as things that make you go "huh?". But by no
means a bad film, in and of itself.

Just not sufficiently Tolkienish, if you take my meaning.

NOW I'm ready for ROTK <grin>

--
Sindamor Pandaturion
[remove -remove- to reply]

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jameshyder

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Since: Jan 04, 2004
Posts: 12



(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:03 am
Post subject: Re: [Film] Two Towers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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<stealthy_tanuki.DeleteThis@remove-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:j7gnuv000elp1t3a1bhentfdiso60fk7h3@4ax.com...
> Well, I finally got around to watching the whole thing. I'd missed
> part of it the first time I saw it and I wanted to watch it on the big
> screen to try to watch it just as a fantasy film. But it didn't work
> out, so I just watched it on DVD

[snip]

> Just not sufficiently Tolkienish, if you take my meaning.
>

I do and many others would agree. Fair movies, great FX, but not Tolkien.

JH

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bob

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Since: Nov 17, 2003
Posts: 10



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:05 am
Post subject: Re: [Film] Two Towers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <yqydnZvGDP2L03GiRVn-tA.RemoveThis@comcast.com>,
"James Hyder" <JamesHyder.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:

> <stealthy_tanuki.RemoveThis@remove-yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:j7gnuv000elp1t3a1bhentfdiso60fk7h3@4ax.com...
> > Well, I finally got around to watching the whole thing. I'd missed
> > part of it the first time I saw it and I wanted to watch it on the big
> > screen to try to watch it just as a fantasy film. But it didn't work
> > out, so I just watched it on DVD
>
> [snip]
>
> > Just not sufficiently Tolkienish, if you take my meaning.
> >
>
> I do and many others would agree. Fair movies, great FX, but not Tolkien.
>
> JH
>
>

How do the movies even exist without Tolkien? I would grant you that
many changes are made from text to film. It is a modern movie based on
Tolkien. The difference between 'modern storytelling' and 'mythic
storytelling' would account for the changes. But there is Tolkien in the
movie. Fair Enough?
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gmgw

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Since: Jan 08, 2004
Posts: 20



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2003 1:19 am
Post subject: Re: [Film] Two Towers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

----------
In article <bob-4363E1.16052226122003.TakeThisOut@news03.west.earthlink.net>,
RufusTFirefly <bob.TakeThisOut@bob.com> wrote:


> In article <yqydnZvGDP2L03GiRVn-tA.TakeThisOut@comcast.com>,
> "James Hyder" <JamesHyder.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> <stealthy_tanuki.TakeThisOut@remove-yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:j7gnuv000elp1t3a1bhentfdiso60fk7h3@4ax.com...
>> > Well, I finally got around to watching the whole thing. I'd missed
>> > part of it the first time I saw it and I wanted to watch it on the big
>> > screen to try to watch it just as a fantasy film. But it didn't work
>> > out, so I just watched it on DVD
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> > Just not sufficiently Tolkienish, if you take my meaning.
>> >
>>
>> I do and many others would agree. Fair movies, great FX, but not Tolkien.
>>
>> JH
>>
>>
>
> How do the movies even exist without Tolkien? I would grant you that
> many changes are made from text to film. It is a modern movie based on
> Tolkien. The difference between 'modern storytelling' and 'mythic
> storytelling' would account for the changes. But there is Tolkien in the
> movie. Fair Enough?

It would probably have been more honest to describe the films in the credits
as "inspired by" LOTR rather than "based on".
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bob9

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Since: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 44



(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:29 am
Post subject: Re: [Film] Two Towers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"G. M. Watson" <gmgw.DeleteThis@pop2.intergate.ca> wrote in message
news:vuqjk5jrmpkge6@corp.supernews.com...
>
>
> ----------
> In article <bob-4363E1.16052226122003.DeleteThis@news03.west.earthlink.net>,
> RufusTFirefly <bob.DeleteThis@bob.com> wrote:
>
>
> > In article <yqydnZvGDP2L03GiRVn-tA.DeleteThis@comcast.com>,
> > "James Hyder" <JamesHyder.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >> <stealthy_tanuki.DeleteThis@remove-yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:j7gnuv000elp1t3a1bhentfdiso60fk7h3@4ax.com...
> >> > Well, I finally got around to watching the whole thing. I'd missed
> >> > part of it the first time I saw it and I wanted to watch it on the
big
> >> > screen to try to watch it just as a fantasy film. But it didn't work
> >> > out, so I just watched it on DVD
> >>
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> > Just not sufficiently Tolkienish, if you take my meaning.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I do and many others would agree. Fair movies, great FX, but not
Tolkien.
> >>
> >> JH
> >>
> >>
> >
> > How do the movies even exist without Tolkien? I would grant you that
> > many changes are made from text to film. It is a modern movie based on
> > Tolkien. The difference between 'modern storytelling' and 'mythic
> > storytelling' would account for the changes. But there is Tolkien in the
> > movie. Fair Enough?
>
> It would probably have been more honest to describe the films in the
credits
> as "inspired by" LOTR rather than "based on".

How long does one have to close their eyes, cover their ears, and go
'lalalalalalalalala' to be able to come to the conclusion that the films are
not adapting the books? Enquiring minds want to know.
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pperson

External


Since: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 50



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:17 pm
Post subject: Re: [Film] Two Towers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Warchild" <bob.RemoveThis@bob.com> wrote:

<snippo>

>How long does one have to close their eyes, cover their ears, and go
>'lalalalalalalalala' to be able to come to the conclusion that the films are
>not adapting the books? Enquiring minds want to know.

It requires no such effort. It is quite clear from watching them that,
great as they are as films, actually adapting JRRT was never PJ's
goal.

And Tom Bombadil isn't in the movie. Not that "lalalalalala" wouldn't
be PJ's version of his lines if he were.
--
I still mostly download on Saturdays & upload on Sundays. Patience is a virtue.
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swtravlr

External


Since: Mar 02, 2004
Posts: 73



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:29 pm
Post subject: Re: [Film] Two Towers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Paul S. Person" <pperson.DeleteThis@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:f6igvvc0tm3ferf9draquu8qavn20v49g0@4ax.com...
> "Warchild" <bob.DeleteThis@bob.com> wrote:
>
> <snippo>
>
> >How long does one have to close their eyes, cover their ears, and go
> >'lalalalalalalalala' to be able to come to the conclusion that the films
are
> >not adapting the books? Enquiring minds want to know.
>
> It requires no such effort. It is quite clear from watching them that,
> great as they are as films, actually adapting JRRT was never PJ's
> goal.


Sorry, but it is quite clear from reading that last sentence that you have
no interest in being accurate or truthful.
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pperson

External


Since: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 50



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:00 pm
Post subject: Re: [Film] Two Towers [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Rick" <swtravlr.DeleteThis@NOSPAMtampabay.rr.com> wrote:

>"Paul S. Person" <pperson.DeleteThis@earthlink.net.invalid> wrote in message
>news:f6igvvc0tm3ferf9draquu8qavn20v49g0@4ax.com...
>> "Warchild" <bob.DeleteThis@bob.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snippo>
>>
>> >How long does one have to close their eyes, cover their ears, and go
>> >'lalalalalalalalala' to be able to come to the conclusion that the films
>are
>> >not adapting the books? Enquiring minds want to know.
>>
>> It requires no such effort. It is quite clear from watching them that,
>> great as they are as films, actually adapting JRRT was never PJ's
>> goal.
>
>
>Sorry, but it is quite clear from reading that last sentence that you have
>no interest in being accurate or truthful.

A question was asked:

"How long does one have to close their eyes, cover their ears, and go
'lalalalalalalalala' to be able to come to the conclusion that the
films are not adapting the books?"

And answered:

"It requires no such effort. It is quite clear from watching them
that, great as they are as films, actually adapting JRRT was never
PJ's goal."

If you do not like the answer, that is not my problem.

IIRC, it was announced very early that the films would be PJ's version
of the story -- and not JRRT's.

I have not found the quote yet, and may never find it, but I did
review some of the early interviews (GoogleGroups has messages
incorporating them or with links to them), and "based on" is used
quite a bit. That is also what the movies themselves claim to be. In
short, no claim by PJ or the films themselves to be adaptations or
even attempted adaptations is evident. And the films themselves
clearly are not adaptations. They are excellent fantasy adventure
movies with these links to JRRT:

1) Middle-Earth at the end of the Third Age is reproduced physically
as well as I would ever expect anyone to do it.

2) The broadest outline of PJ's plot follows the broadest outline of
JRRT's plot. However, the more detailed the plot-line you examine is,
the more differences (mostly pointless differences, as many posts on
r.a.b.t. have pointed out) between PJ and JRRT appear.

3) Named characters used by PJ have names used by JRRT (the most
notorious exception, Lurtz, is never named on-screen, at least, not in
the theatrical release). However, few of these characters are the same
person in PJ's story that they are in JRRT's (r.a.b.t. is filled with
the details of PJ's changes). Gandalf, Gollum, Sam and Eowyn appear to
be the least affected -- I would add Eomer but we see so little of him
that it is hard to be sure.

They are not, by any stretch of the imagination, an adaptation. Not
even an attempted adaptation. Sorry, you'll have to be content with
"excellent fantasy adventure" -- "adaptation" is just not credible.
--
I still mostly download on Saturdays & upload on Sundays. Patience is a virtue.
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