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The Flying Sorcerors

 
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steve4

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Since: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 78



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:57 pm
Post subject: The Flying Sorcerors
Archived from groups: alt>books>larry-niven (more info?)

Something has bothered me about the design of Purple's electrical
generator, and its simply that what he describes stands no chance of
working. Instead of permanent magnets, he is describing electrical coils -
for which you would need an electrical current to create the necessary
magnetic field for the other coil to cut through to generate electricity.

Well thats how I read it!!

Stephen

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kuyper

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Since: Jul 14, 2004
Posts: 62



(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:57 pm
Post subject: Re: The Flying Sorcerors [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

steve.RemoveThis@antispam.sforbesa.cix.co.uk (Stephen Forbes) wrote in message news:<memo.20040816215726.749A.RemoveThis@sforbesa.compulink.co.uk>...
> Something has bothered me about the design of Purple's electrical generator,
> and its simply that what he describes stands no chance of working. Instead of
> permanent magnets, he is describing electrical coils - for which you would
> need an electrical current to create the necessary magnetic field for the
> other coil to cut through to generate electricity.


I don't remember that story; possibly I haven't read it yet. However, I
remember reading about generators that rely upon magnetic fields generated by
the generator itself, to generate the electricity. What happens is that a very
small magnetic field is always present; at the start the generator produces
only a very small amount of electric current as a result. That electric current
powers up the electromagnets, which then produces more magnetic field,
producing even more electric current. The net result is an electric current
that increases exponentially for small currents.

The feedback loop has to become non-linear for large currents, or the
exponential increase would continue until the generator burned out. However,
this is pretty much automatic. You're creating electric current out of nowhere,
and that's OK because current isn't conserved (except in a sense that doesn't
cause problems here). However, you're not creating electric power out of
nothing, energy is conserved. the power coming out has to come from whatever it
is that's keeping the the coils turning. Long before there's any danger of
burning out a (properly designed) generator of this type, the increased work
that has to be done to keep the coils rotating, causes the rotator to slow down,
terminating the exponential growth phase.

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tberk

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Since: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 87



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:06 am
Post subject: Re: The Flying Sorcerors [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> James Kuyper wrote:
>
>
>>I don't remember that story; possibly I haven't read it yet. However,
>>I
>>remember reading about generators that rely upon magnetic fields
>>generated by
>>the generator itself, to generate the electricity. What happens is
>>that a very
>>small magnetic field is always present; at the start the generator
>>produces
>>only a very small amount of electric current as a result. That
>>electric current
>>powers up the electromagnets, which then produces more magnetic field,
>>producing even more electric current. The net result is an electric
>>current
>>that increases exponentially for small currents.
>
>
> It's hard to see how such a thing would get past Lenz's law.
>



Well, think of an automotive Alternator: it has coils and such but it
doesn't really begin to put out watts until the coils are energized-
hence the energizer or igniter wire.

This wire runs to the battery and helps to get the field up and
running, once enough rpms get the current flowing the draw on it is
negligible.

It can be done without but takes a lot of mechanical energy to get
enough electrical energy flowing to get the coils 'hot' as it were.

btw- This Niven book was, and remains, one of my all time fictional
favorites.


TBerk
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