Frodo's real name?

"Tom Peters" <""tom\"@(none)> wrote in message
news:40301977$0$31141$e4fe514c@dreader14.news.xs4all.nl...
 > Is it known what Frodo Baggin's real name was?

Yes, at least the Elvish version of it, by which he is hailed on the Field
of Cormallen.

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A Tsar Is Born wrote:
 > "Tom Peters" <""tom\"@(none)> wrote in message
 > news:40301977$0$31141$e4fe514c@dreader14.news.xs4all.nl...
 >
  >>Is it known what Frodo Baggin's real name was?
 >
 >
 > Yes, at least the Elvish version of it, by which he is hailed on the Field
 > of Cormallen.

Thanx for the hint.
They "cried with many voices and in many tongues", and the texts do not
run concurrent; so I cannot definatively make out the actual names. Is
"Frodo": "Daur" or "Conin"? Or maybe something else?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Frodo's real name? 

in <403286ce$0$131$e4fe514c@dreader13.news.xs4all.nl>,
Tom Peters" <""tom\ <""tom\"@(none)> enriched us with:
 >

<snip>

 > Thanx for the hint.
 > They "cried with many voices and in many tongues", and the texts
 > do not run concurrent; so I cannot definatively make out the
 > actual names. Is "Frodo": "Daur" or "Conin"? Or maybe something
 > else?

A quick google search on the phrase turns up quite a lot of listings.

The relevant phrase appears to be Sindarin:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/sindarin.htm" target="_blank">http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/sindarin.htm</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://members.cox.net/taramiluiel/sindarin_corpus.htm" target="_blank">http://members.cox.net/taramiluiel/sindarin_corpus.htm</a>

Sam is "Berhael" and Frodo is "Daur".
Conin en Annûn means "Heroes of the west" and eglerio is "praise
(them)"

For a note on Sam's name see (search for "Perhael")
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.tuckborough.net/sam.html" target="_blank">http://www.tuckborough.net/sam.html</a>

According the Ardalambion site "Daur", Frodo's Sindarin name, is a
lenited form of "Taur" - an old adjective meaning "lofty, noble".¨

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail address is t.forch(a)mail.dk

"He deserves death."
"Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some
that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to
deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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"Troels Forchhammer" <Troels.DeleteThis@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote in message
news:twFYb.9464$k4.205512@news1.nokia.com...
 > According the Ardalambion site "Daur", Frodo's Sindarin name, is a
 > lenited form of "Taur" - an old adjective meaning "lofty, noble".¨

In other words, a Sindarin equivalent for the Germanic "Frode."

Just the sort of joke one expects of the inimitable Professor T.

I wonder how he would have translated "Bingo," had he retained the
character's original name?

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Tom Peters <""tom\"@(none)> wrote:
 > Is it known what Frodo Baggin's real name was?
 > The names in the books are translations from Westron into Frankish or
 > Gothic. Tolkien in App. F writes that "Sam"'s real name is Banazir
 > (Ban), and "Merry"'s (Meriadoc): Kalimac.

I don't think Tolkien gives it to us, but Tom Shippey
points out in _JRRT: AotC_ that since Bilbo's Westron name was
Bilba, then Frodo's Westron name could be Froda. Shippey then
runs with this idea by pointing out similarities between Frodo
and the character Froda in a Northern European legend. (Sorry,
I can't remember which legend exactly and IDHTBIFOM.)

--Jamie. (nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita)
andrews .uwo } Merge these two lines to obtain my e-mail address.
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Tom Peters (""tom\"@(none)) wrote:
: Is it known what Frodo Baggin's real name was?
: The names in the books are translations from Westron into Frankish or
: Gothic. Tolkien in App. F writes that "Sam"'s real name is Banazir
: (Ban), and "Merry"'s (Meriadoc): Kalimac.

IHTBIFOM! although it appears my memory on this was correct - the refernce
is The Peoples of Middle-Earth (HoME XII), chpt 2 "The Appendix on
Languages", text F2, sections 47 and 49. "Baggins" was "Labingi", and
"Frodo" was "Maura", related to an archaic adjective maur- meaning wise or
experienced.
HTH
HAND
ajb

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Buhr Savour the Irony!
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"Jamie Andrews; real address @ bottom of message" <me DeleteThis @privacy.net> wrote in
message news:c137gl$1ckspq$1@ID-193590.news.uni-berlin.de...
 > I don't think Tolkien gives it to us, but Tom Shippey
 > points out in _JRRT: AotC_ that since Bilbo's Westron name was
 > Bilba, then Frodo's Westron name could be Froda. Shippey then
 > runs with this idea by pointing out similarities between Frodo
 > and the character Froda in a Northern European legend. (Sorry,
 > I can't remember which legend exactly and IDHTBIFOM.)

Good King Frode is said to have ruled Denmark (perhaps before the Danes got
their name from King Dan, yes, I mean it, not joking) around the time of the
Emperor Augustus (0, our calendar), and he enforced such peace and
prosperity that it was a very golden age. He acquired two giantesses with
millstones, who would grind whatever he desired. He had them grind out peace
and gold, and they did for quite some time. Until one day they asked for a
day off. He was furious (they'd interrupted his nap) and told them to get
back to work. So they did, but they began to sing of their Norse giant
ancestors who wouldn't have put up with such treatment, and the violence and
bloodshed that were habitual with their race, and as they sang, barbarians
descended upon Europe, especially Denmark, and ransacked the kingdom and
slew King Frode. The barbarian chief took the giantesses and their magic
millstones on his ship with the rest of his booty. "What shall we grind?"
they asked him. The ship being out of table salt, he said, "Grind salt," and
took a nap of his own. He never awoke. They ground so much salt that the
ship sank. And they're still down there, still grinding salt. Until somebody
finds them and changes the programming.
And that is why....

I got this tale from Andrew Lang. Whom Tolkien read in quantity. (I believe
he wrote "Leaf by Niggle" to deliver as an Andrew Lang Memorial Lecture.)

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In message <news:c137gl$1ckspq$1@ID-193590.news.uni-berlin.de>
me RemoveThis @privacy.net (Jamie Andrews; real address @ bottom of message)
enriched us with:

 > Tom Peters <""tom\"@(none)> wrote:
  >> Is it known what Frodo Baggin's real name was?
[...]
 >
 > I don't think Tolkien gives it to us,

It is mentioned in PoMe 1, 2 'The Appendix on Languages'
Text F2 has:

Frodo On the other hand the H. name was /Maura/.[33] This was
not a common name in the Shire, but I think it probably once
had a meaning, even if that had long been forgotten. No word
/maur-/ can be found in the contemporary C.S., but again
recourse to comparison with the language of Rohan is
enlightening. In that language there was an adjective /maur-/,
no longer current at this time, but familiar in verse or higher
styles of speech; it meant 'wise, experienced'. I have, there-
fore, rendered /Maura/ as /Frodo/, an old Germanic name, that
appears to contain the word /frod/* which in ancient English
corresponded closely to Rohan /maur/.

[33] In F1 the name was written /Mauro/* before being changed
to /Maura/.

* in these two words there's a horizontal bar above the 'o', but I'm
not able to reproduce that in my character set.

As is obvious this didn't make it into the final appendix.

Other names mentioned in this text is Cilimanzar for Meriadoc (making
Cilic for Merry), Razanul for Peregrin reduced to Razal, Bilba for
Bilbo and Ban(zir) for Sam(wise). The name for Meriadoc is the only one
that changed significantly in the published appendix, but it still
isn't certain, AFAIK, whether Tolkien discarded /Maura/ as Frodo's name
or if he just left it out for some other reason.

--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid mail is <t.forch(a)mail.dk>

Love while you've got
love to give.
Live while you've got
life to live.
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