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Footfall omissions...

 
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whitgurley

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Since: Mar 01, 2004
Posts: 7



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:56 am
Post subject: Footfall omissions...
Archived from groups: alt>books>larry-niven (more info?)

I recently read a brief review of Footfall from someone who dismissed it
as tedious. I just finished it a week or so ago and have to thoroughly
disagree - in my opinion the story was ingenious and the cultural
explorations fascinating (which were especially interesting in light of
the book's pre-Soviet-collapse publishing date). I was actually
disappointed that it wasn't longer - I thought the ending was good, but
I couldn't help but want to hear what happened after the final
surrender. I feel like Niven had poised himself for a sequel. Since it
was a NYT best-seller I can't imagine why he didn't write one.

However, I was even more disappointed to have gotten to the end of the
book with almost no discussion on the reason for the uncanny resemblance
of the aliens to the elephant (especially if you take the book's cover
into account). I had made up my mind about halfway through that the
aliens' predecessors had travelled to Earth long ago and taken a herd
back with them, after which of course they died out and the elephants
evolved to become the dominant species and pick up where the
predecessors had left off. It would be one thing for the author to write
in a different explanation, but I find it patently unrealistic for no
one in the book to have even wondered about it - there simply was no
dialogue in that vein aside from both species noticing the resemblance.
After all, elephants use their trunks as forelimbs and the trunk's tip
is capable of grabbing things, so it would follow that they could evolve
into tool-users were they left in a dominant position. But there was no
such exploration, so the only assumption you can be left with is that
"large, four-legged, boneless-trunked, thick-skinned, mud-bathing herd
animal" is a common form-factor for life in the universe, which doesn't
sound right to me.

On the other hand, in perusing the Man-Kzin Wars covers I see that even
though Niven doesn't say the Kzin looked exactly like tigers, that's
exactly what is used for the artwork. Perhaps the cover artists are
allowed to be more literal with their interpretations than the stories'
reality, or perhaps the animal image itself is just a vehicle to lend
accessibility or tangibility to the subject (as far as I know, none of
the Kzin-related stories includes a hypothesis like the one above). But
I don't feel the Kintzi resemble the tiger as much as the Footfall
beings resemble elephants.

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone else was missing an explanation
on this subject. I can't stand to finish an otherwise compelling book
that leaves such a gaping hole.
_____________________
w h i t g u r l e y
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plorevhf

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Since: Feb 06, 2004
Posts: 11



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:42 am
Post subject: Re: Footfall omissions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:56:28 GMT, Whit Gurley wrote:

 > aliens to the elephant (especially if you take the book's cover
 > into account).
[...]
 > in perusing the Man-Kzin Wars covers I see that even
 > though Niven doesn't say the Kzin looked exactly like tigers, that's
 > exactly what is used for the artwork. Perhaps the cover artists are
 > allowed to be more literal with their interpretations than the stories'
 > reality

A couple of things I feel the need to point out:
1) Book covers *rarely* accurately reflect the contents of the book. In
most of my SF library, for example, the covers are not even vaguely
related.
2) If you haven't seen at least three different covers for any given
paperback, then you've been looking for less than a year. All the
paperbacks I've ever seen seem to change their cover art with each
reprinting.

(For example, the cover on my copy of "Footfall" features skewed-angle
view of the Earth, with a *very* large H-bomb-type mushroom cloud.)

--
Evan Couche UIN : 5361099
Mail: plorevhf.RemoveThis@punevbg.arg.nh.FCNZBSS
"Just think of it as Evolution in action."
-> Oath of Fealty - L.Niven & J.Pournelle<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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jesus_x1

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Since: Mar 01, 2004
Posts: 44



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:42 am
Post subject: Re: Footfall omissions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 3/1/2004 10:12 AM Cybes cranked up the brainbox and said:
 > (For example, the cover on my copy of "Footfall" features skewed-angle
 > view of the Earth, with a *very* large H-bomb-type mushroom cloud.)

Look, I'M SORRY! I didn't KNOW it was going to blow up like THAT. If I could put
South America back where it was don't you think I'd have done it by now!? Smile

--
jesus X [ Booze-fueled paragon of pointless cruelty and wanton sadism. ]
email [ jesus_x @ mozillanews.org ]
web [ <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mozillanews.org" target="_blank">http://www.mozillanews.org</a> ]
insult [ As usual, you've been a real pantload. ]
warning [ Don't touch that! You might mutate your fingers. ]<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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max

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Since: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 169



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:42 am
Post subject: Re: Footfall omissions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Cybes wrote:

 > 2) If you haven't seen at least three different covers for any given
 > paperback, then you've been looking for less than a year. All the
 > paperbacks I've ever seen seem to change their cover art with each
 > reprinting.

They didn't used to do this; many of Niven's covers are done by famous
artists such that it would be foolish to redesign the cover artwork.
However, for some reason they've done just that; all of the Niven books
have had cover redesigns, and the new design is usually lacking and the
artwork is (especially by comparison) terrible.

I'm hoping there's some legal or licensing issue why this was done,
since if it was done spontaneously or because someone thought the old
cover artwork needed revising, they should be drop-kicked.

--
__ Erik Max Francis && max RemoveThis @alcyone.com && <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.alcyone.com/max/" target="_blank">http://www.alcyone.com/max/</a>
/ \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && &tSftDotIotE
\__/ Time is a storm in which we are all lost.
-- George Bernard Shaw<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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plorevhf

External


Since: Feb 06, 2004
Posts: 11



(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Footfall omissions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:36:27 -0800, Erik Max Francis wrote:

[replacing cover art]
 > They didn't used to do this; many of Niven's covers are done by famous
 > artists such that it would be foolish to redesign the cover artwork.
 > However, for some reason they've done just that; all of the Niven books
 > have had cover redesigns, and the new design is usually lacking and the
 > artwork is (especially by comparison) terrible.
 >
 > I'm hoping there's some legal or licensing issue why this was done,
 > since if it was done spontaneously or because someone thought the old
 > cover artwork needed revising, they should be drop-kicked.

I agree with you as to the reasons why it shouldn't happen. The issue of
replacement, however, is not all that recent - at least, not here in South
Aus. This has been happening here for over 20 years. (Possibly closer to
30) It has *always* annoyed me. How often have you tried to find
something you dimly remember as being a good read, don't recall the title
or author, and vividly remember the cover? Happens all the time to me.
But ye can't rely on that around here.

Extra pet peeve that makes finding SF hard: <expletive> bookstores that
insist upon classifying SF and Fantasy as the same thing, and thus feel
free to mix them together on the shelves.
--
Evan Couche UIN : 5361099
Mail: plorevhf.RemoveThis@punevbg.arg.nh.FCNZBSS
"Just think of it as Evolution in action."
-> Oath of Fealty - L.Niven & J.Pournelle<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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jdnicoll

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Since: May 24, 2004
Posts: 42



(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Footfall omissions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <y4qug8umlhu4.1bvi7nsofjpzo$.dlg@40tude.net>,
Cybes <plorevhf DeleteThis @FCNZBSS.punevbg.arg.nh> wrote:
 >On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:36:27 -0800, Erik Max Francis wrote:
 >
 >[replacing cover art]
  >> They didn't used to do this; many of Niven's covers are done by famous
  >> artists such that it would be foolish to redesign the cover artwork.
  >> However, for some reason they've done just that; all of the Niven books
  >> have had cover redesigns, and the new design is usually lacking and the
  >> artwork is (especially by comparison) terrible.
  >>
  >> I'm hoping there's some legal or licensing issue why this was done,
  >> since if it was done spontaneously or because someone thought the old
  >> cover artwork needed revising, they should be drop-kicked.
 >
 >I agree with you as to the reasons why it shouldn't happen. The issue of
 >replacement, however, is not all that recent - at least, not here in South
 >Aus. This has been happening here for over 20 years. (Possibly closer to
 >30) It has *always* annoyed me. How often have you tried to find
 >something you dimly remember as being a good read, don't recall the title
 >or author, and vividly remember the cover? Happens all the time to me.
 >But ye can't rely on that around here.
 >
 >Extra pet peeve that makes finding SF hard: <expletive> bookstores that
 >insist upon classifying SF and Fantasy as the same thing, and thus feel
 >free to mix them together on the shelves.

  Chapters (Canada's dominant big box bookstore chain, run with
the delicate hand of, oh, The Phone Company) does seperate SF from F
in some branches, about as well as one might expect. One of the things
this highlights is that SF is a _lot_ less popular than F, because
F gets about 2x-3x the shelf space as SF, and SF has media tie-ins
to pad its share of the shelf space.

--
"Unless there are slaves to do the ugly, horrible, uninteresting work, culture
and contemplation become almost impossible. Human slavery is wrong, insecure,
and demoralizing. On mechanical slavery, on the slavery of the machine, the
future of the world depends." -Oscar Wilde, "The Soul of Man Under Socialism"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user467

External


Since: Mar 02, 2004
Posts: 1



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:40 am
Post subject: Re: Footfall omissions... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Whit Gurley" <whitgurley RemoveThis @TxHxExOxPxPxOxSxIxTxExOxFxCxOxLxDmail.com> wrote
in message news:whitgurley-8BB2CC.00562901032004@netnews.comcast.net...
 > I recently read a brief review of Footfall from someone who dismissed it
 > as tedious. I just finished it a week or so ago and have to thoroughly
 > disagree - in my opinion the story was ingenious and the cultural
 > explorations fascinating (which were especially interesting in light of
 > the book's pre-Soviet-collapse publishing date). I was actually
 > disappointed that it wasn't longer - I thought the ending was good, but
 > I couldn't help but want to hear what happened after the final
 > surrender. I feel like Niven had poised himself for a sequel. Since it
 > was a NYT best-seller I can't imagine why he didn't write one.
 >
 > However, I was even more disappointed to have gotten to the end of the
 > book with almost no discussion on the reason for the uncanny resemblance
 > of the aliens to the elephant (especially if you take the book's cover
 > into account). I had made up my mind about halfway through that the
 > aliens' predecessors had travelled to Earth long ago and taken a herd
 > back with them, after which of course they died out and the elephants
 > evolved to become the dominant species and pick up where the
 > predecessors had left off. It would be one thing for the author to write
 > in a different explanation, but I find it patently unrealistic for no
 > one in the book to have even wondered about it - there simply was no
 > dialogue in that vein aside from both species noticing the resemblance.
 > After all, elephants use their trunks as forelimbs and the trunk's tip
 > is capable of grabbing things, so it would follow that they could evolve
 > into tool-users were they left in a dominant position. But there was no
 > such exploration, so the only assumption you can be left with is that
 > "large, four-legged, boneless-trunked, thick-skinned, mud-bathing herd
 > animal" is a common form-factor for life in the universe, which doesn't
 > sound right to me.

<snip>
 > w h i t g u r l e y

No, its probably not right, but then neither is it likely right that, at
times of national emergency, the US President uses SF writers as advisors.

Clearly, this is fiction - but very good fiction at that.

Maybe elephants became a dominant lifeform due to their success as
paratroopers - good base for landings - oh p'raps not!

Laurence<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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plorevhf

External


Since: Feb 06, 2004
Posts: 11



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:20 pm
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On 2 Mar 2004 10:07:55 -0500, James Nicoll wrote:

 > One of the things
 > this highlights is that SF is a _lot_ less popular than F, because
 > F gets about 2x-3x the shelf space as SF, and SF has media tie-ins
 > to pad its share of the shelf space.

Yah - pretty similar proportions here. I find it more than a little
disheartening that more people would prefer fluff.
--
Evan Couche UIN : 5361099
Mail: plorevhf.DeleteThis@punevbg.arg.nh.FCNZBSS
"Just think of it as Evolution in action."
-> Oath of Fealty - L.Niven & J.Pournelle<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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jdnicoll

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Since: May 24, 2004
Posts: 42



(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:20 pm
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In article <1erj68h1a1fz2$.1estbmraozz84.dlg@40tude.net>,
Cybes <plorevhf DeleteThis @FCNZBSS.punevbg.arg.nh> wrote:
 >On 2 Mar 2004 10:07:55 -0500, James Nicoll wrote:
 >
  >> One of the things
  >> this highlights is that SF is a _lot_ less popular than F, because
  >> F gets about 2x-3x the shelf space as SF, and SF has media tie-ins
  >> to pad its share of the shelf space.
 >
 >Yah - pretty similar proportions here. I find it more than a little
 >disheartening that more people would prefer fluff.

  SF should have done a better job of sucking in the young adults,
then.

 
--
"Unless there are slaves to do the ugly, horrible, uninteresting work, culture
and contemplation become almost impossible. Human slavery is wrong, insecure,
and demoralizing. On mechanical slavery, on the slavery of the machine, the
future of the world depends." -Oscar Wilde, "The Soul of Man Under Socialism"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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plorevhf

External


Since: Feb 06, 2004
Posts: 11



(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:54 pm
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On 3 Mar 2004 09:24:55 -0500, James Nicoll wrote:

  > SF should have done a better job of sucking in the young adults,
 > then.

Mm. I don't think ye can lay the blame soley on SF like that... Science
generally seems to be rather less popular than F. Youngsters, especially,
would rather fill their heads with Pokemon monster stats.

Then again... Quite a lot of people (in modern times, anyway) got started
in science *after* being inspired by SF.

<shrug> Personally, I still think "Cosmos" was one of the best enticement
campaigns science has had - it needs to be compulsory viewing for school
kids. Of course, you'll then have generations of kids saying "bullyons
and bullyons" Wink
--
Evan Couche UIN : 5361099
Mail: plorevhf RemoveThis @punevbg.arg.nh.FCNZBSS
"Just think of it as Evolution in action."
-> Oath of Fealty - L.Niven & J.Pournelle<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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