Foundation Always Wins -- since when?

I've got a question that popped into my head demanding an answer
right after I put my copies of the Foundation Trilogy in secure boxes
for a while, so I've got to turn to the group for advice:

It's common knowledge in the Foundation (the First Foundation,
anyway) that it will always win in a conflict between it and a rival
power; after all, it has to go on to establish the Second Empire.

However ... when did they get this idea? After all, one can be
responsible for the creation of a Renaissance without surviving as a
nation-state; for example, many would argue the final collapse of the
Byzantine Empire was an essential ingredient in making the Italian
Renaissance such a smashing success. It could have been The Plan to
have the Foundation do the networking and information-distribution tasks
needed to let the rest of the Galaxy finish the job.

So, when was the first time Hari Seldon or a Second Foundationer
who wouldn't have reason to lie to the speaker pledge that, come what
may, the First Foundation would become the Second Empire?

--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Joseph Nebus" <nebusj-.RemoveThis@-rpi-.edu> wrote in message
news:nebusj.1166064168@vcmr-86.server.rpi.edu...
> I've got a question that popped into my head demanding an answer
> right after I put my copies of the Foundation Trilogy in secure boxes
> for a while, so I've got to turn to the group for advice:
>
> It's common knowledge in the Foundation (the First Foundation,
> anyway) that it will always win in a conflict between it and a rival
> power; after all, it has to go on to establish the Second Empire.
>
> However ... when did they get this idea? After all, one can be
> responsible for the creation of a Renaissance without surviving as a
> nation-state; for example, many would argue the final collapse of the
> Byzantine Empire was an essential ingredient in making the Italian
> Renaissance such a smashing success. It could have been The Plan to
> have the Foundation do the networking and information-distribution tasks
> needed to let the rest of the Galaxy finish the job.
>
> So, when was the first time Hari Seldon or a Second Foundationer
> who wouldn't have reason to lie to the speaker pledge that, come what
> may, the First Foundation would become the Second Empire?
>
> --
> Joseph Nebus
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't think that there was ever a formal pledge that the First Foundation
would become the Second Empire.

Hari hints that the Second Empire is the future but he's quite firm that the
Foundation would only succeed if it helped itself.

The rot set in after the Foundation 'beat' the Empire. In fact, they didn't
exactly - it was the socio economic structure of the Empire that caused Bel
Riose's campaign to fail. This was not that obvious to the average citizen
of the Foundation and probably even less so to the average citizen of the
periphery. All they would see was the relative fly speck of the Foundation
apparently beat the resurgent Empire with all of it's still overwhelming
powers then compare the Foundation to their own decrepit state.

By the time of Mayor Imbur III, the attitude that the Foundation couldn't be
beaten would be well entrenched as a policy of state. After their defeat by
the Mule, even when they'd been freed, the First Foundation transferred this
belief in their invulnerability to the Second Foundation that had appeared
to beat the Mule.
--

John Fairhurst
http://www.johnsbooks.co.uk
john.RemoveThis@johnsbooks.co.uk