"Foundations' Edge" and "F and Earth"

Hi,

I'm pretty new to Asimov, and I started recently with the three Foundation
books. I found them FANTASTIC, probably the best three stories, I'd ever
read, with the possible exception of the epic LoTR.

I quickly snapped up the rest of the Foundation books on Amazon, but I have
to say that I found the latter two "sequels" (as opposed to the two
prequels) to be increasingly dissatifying, especially the conclusion to
F+Earth.

I am hoping someone can explain a few things to me, or point me in the right
direction:

1) Firstly, in F'sEdge, there appears to be a serious logical flaw, which
just hopelessly unravels in F+Earth:

To paraphrase, Bliss/Gaia mentions a legend about Earth and Robots that
where it appears to me that Asmiov was suggesting that the Robots who became
the Eternals (and were therefore able to tweak the thread of reality so that
Earth was where intelligent life was formed) were able to create their own
creators?

How could this possibly be? _Maybe_ its a tongue-in-cheek poke at humans who
are considered by some "to have created God in our image", but I sure didn't
understand it, and for me the ideas in the last two F novels started to
"leak" from the original purity of the original trilogy.

2) At the end of F+Earth, the robot who gets Trevize/Bliss/Pelorat/Solarian
to come to moon (in surely one the wierdest and least plausible ways you've
ever likely to come across) makes all sorts of claims that *appears* to me
(remember I'm new to all this) as if Asimov thought they would tie all sorts
of loose ends together. For me, the story completely fell apart at the end -
like a beautiful clockwork stuffed with springs, suddenly bursting and
destroying the clock itself. I'm not saying Asimov doesn't write well - he's
absolutely brilliant, and I enjoyed the story and planet travel for its own
sake, but for me its detracts severely from the beauty of the original 3.

To take one example, while it was hard to accept, it was nonetheless
apparently plausible that the 2nd Foundationers could control, in a limited
sense, the 1st Foundationers. This was tough to accept, but basically cool.
However, then suddenly Gaia comes on the seen in F'sEdge, and they can
control the 2nd Foundationers...through hyperspacial mind control (!!!!)...,
and they have wierd powers to control the destiny of the whole universe, and
co-incidentally indentify a 1st Foundationer as the most "right" person in
the whole Universe - surely an unlikely co-incidence...well! Already, we're
started to fall off the wall now, but when the robot on the moon (forget his
name) suddenly says he *created* Gaia, and Hari Seldon's pyschohistory, I
just could not believe it.

Where does it all end? I know its just a story, but who's to say that if the
2nd Foundationers were not aware they were being controller by the Gaians,
and the Gaians not aware they were controlled by the robots, who's to say
the robot is not controlled by...an uber robot, or maybe the 3rd foundation,
or some non-sentient slug on the planet Blobsical???

Anyway, there's a question in there somewhere. I hope someone can drag it
out.

I loved all the Foundation books, as stories - well written, incredibly
gripping (even F+Earth - I just could not put the pages down to the end) -
but the wonder and imagination-inducing powers of the original 3 were so
good, that I almost feel it a pity that especially F+Earth was ever written.
Sacrilege, I know, but there you go.

Regards,
Alain

It is a great read but to get the full effect go to the intro to F&E...He
lays out the order of all the books he tied....top of my head it goes like
this

Caves of Steel
Naked Sun
Robots of Dawn
Robot and Empire (this one might be tough as last I checked is out of print)
Stars Like dust
?
Prelude to Foundation
Forward the Foundation
Foundation
ETC...

The stuff before Foundation will give you an appreciation of the Robot who's
story all of these books ultimately are...Agree with the Tolkien
too..Favorite 3 in order

LOTR
Asimov
Herbert
"Alain Dekker" <abdekker DeleteThis @NOSPAM.fsmail.net> wrote in message
news:40113d9f$1_1@nnrp1.news.uk.psi.net...
> Hi,
>
> I'm pretty new to Asimov, and I started recently with the three Foundation
> books. I found them FANTASTIC, probably the best three stories, I'd ever
> read, with the possible exception of the epic LoTR.
>
> I quickly snapped up the rest of the Foundation books on Amazon, but I
have
> to say that I found the latter two "sequels" (as opposed to the two
> prequels) to be increasingly dissatifying, especially the conclusion to
> F+Earth.
>
> I am hoping someone can explain a few things to me, or point me in the
right
> direction:
>
> 1) Firstly, in F'sEdge, there appears to be a serious logical flaw, which
> just hopelessly unravels in F+Earth:
>
> To paraphrase, Bliss/Gaia mentions a legend about Earth and Robots that
> where it appears to me that Asmiov was suggesting that the Robots who
became
> the Eternals (and were therefore able to tweak the thread of reality so
that
> Earth was where intelligent life was formed) were able to create their own
> creators?
>
> How could this possibly be? _Maybe_ its a tongue-in-cheek poke at humans
who
> are considered by some "to have created God in our image", but I sure
didn't
> understand it, and for me the ideas in the last two F novels started to
> "leak" from the original purity of the original trilogy.
>
> 2) At the end of F+Earth, the robot who gets
Trevize/Bliss/Pelorat/Solarian
> to come to moon (in surely one the wierdest and least plausible ways
you've
> ever likely to come across) makes all sorts of claims that *appears* to me
> (remember I'm new to all this) as if Asimov thought they would tie all
sorts
> of loose ends together. For me, the story completely fell apart at the
end -
> like a beautiful clockwork stuffed with springs, suddenly bursting and
> destroying the clock itself. I'm not saying Asimov doesn't write well -
he's
> absolutely brilliant, and I enjoyed the story and planet travel for its
own
> sake, but for me its detracts severely from the beauty of the original 3.
>
> To take one example, while it was hard to accept, it was nonetheless
> apparently plausible that the 2nd Foundationers could control, in a
limited
> sense, the 1st Foundationers. This was tough to accept, but basically
cool.
> However, then suddenly Gaia comes on the seen in F'sEdge, and they can
> control the 2nd Foundationers...through hyperspacial mind control
(!!!!)...,
> and they have wierd powers to control the destiny of the whole universe,
and
> co-incidentally indentify a 1st Foundationer as the most "right" person in
> the whole Universe - surely an unlikely co-incidence...well! Already,
we're
> started to fall off the wall now, but when the robot on the moon (forget
his
> name) suddenly says he *created* Gaia, and Hari Seldon's pyschohistory, I
> just could not believe it.
>
> Where does it all end? I know its just a story, but who's to say that if
the
> 2nd Foundationers were not aware they were being controller by the Gaians,
> and the Gaians not aware they were controlled by the robots, who's to say
> the robot is not controlled by...an uber robot, or maybe the 3rd
foundation,
> or some non-sentient slug on the planet Blobsical???
>
> Anyway, there's a question in there somewhere. I hope someone can drag it
> out.
>
> I loved all the Foundation books, as stories - well written, incredibly
> gripping (even F+Earth - I just could not put the pages down to the end) -
> but the wonder and imagination-inducing powers of the original 3 were so
> good, that I almost feel it a pity that especially F+Earth was ever
written.
> Sacrilege, I know, but there you go.
>
> Regards,
> Alain
>
>