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External
Since: Mar 20, 2004
Posts: 43
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 11:40 pm
Post subject: Gollum ?
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)
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I am just waiting to get on to LOTR after reading a John Steinbeck
book first
The Hobbit was the last book I read, and it only got interesting when
Bilbo came across Gollum, this was because I had seen clips of Gollum
on TV film footage and got a better picture of the characters
so now I am curious of how Gollum comes to be in LOTR, as I thought
that LOTR would have entirely new characters from TH
it is quite intiguing, trying to figure what detail there must be in a
1500 page book, and I look forward to the meandering storylines, as TH
was basically just one storyline of the adventure of Bilbo and him
being the central character, who was vehemently good or at least
portrayed that way by Tolkien
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External
Since: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 50
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 11:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <39tn90h1dr6vcm1gu6a5ne06s2bsgpbefk RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
Damian John Paul Brown <damian RemoveThis @phpexpert.org> wrote:
> so now I am curious of how Gollum comes to be in LOTR, as I thought
> that LOTR would have entirely new characters from TH
Not quite: Gandalf has a large role in both, and Bilbo appears several
times in LotR as well; we also run into Elrond again. A few of the
characters are "Hobbit: the Next Generation": Frodo, the protagonist, is
Bilbo's nephew (more or less), and Gimli is the son of one of Bilbo's
dwarf companions.
Gollum gets involved because he's still interested in his Precious,
which is the central McGuffin of the books, and because certain parties
use him to learn where it's been hiding. He doesn't really have a role
until _The Two Towers_, though there are brief flashes before that.
----j7y
--
************************************************************************
jere7my tho?rpe / 734-769-0913 "There is no spoon." "SPOON!" "There
>>> j7y RemoveThis @liws.org <<< is no spoon." "SPOON!" "There is no
invert liws to reply via email spoon." "SPOON!" -- The Tick vs. Neo<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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Since: Oct 25, 2004
Posts: 384
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 3:00 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Damian John Paul Brown" <damian DeleteThis @phpexpert.org> wrote in message
news:39tn90h1dr6vcm1gu6a5ne06s2bsgpbefk@4ax.com...
> I am just waiting to get on to LOTR after reading a John Steinbeck
> book first
> The Hobbit was the last book I read, and it only got interesting when
> Bilbo came across Gollum, this was because I had seen clips of Gollum
> on TV film footage and got a better picture of the characters
>
> so now I am curious of how Gollum comes to be in LOTR, as I thought
> that LOTR would have entirely new characters from TH
It does, if by entirely, you mean 97%.
Bilbo, Gandalf, Gollum make return appearences.
Gollum comes to be in LotR by virtue of something called a 'continuous
storyline'.
He made his way to Mordor, for what purposes I cannot recall. There, he was
interrogated by Sauron. He told Sauron that his ring was in the possession
of a 'Baggins' from 'the Shire'. Then, he was let free, which seems to me
more of a deus ex machina than something Sauron would actually want to do.
I think it would be prudent for Sauron to kill or at least confine Gollum,
because if Gollum were to track down Bilbo before the Ringwraiths did, I
think you're going to find the ring a lot more difficult to find. Sauron
would surely ascertain that Gollum is a nocturnal creature, and could well
guess him to be quite despised by his own race. Now, if the ring goes from
the hands of some creature with a proper name, living in region with a
proper name, to the hands of some stealthy creature that in all likelihood
lives alone and only moves in the darkness, is it going to become more or
less problematic to find said ring?
> it is quite intiguing, trying to figure what detail there must be in a
> 1500 page book, and I look forward to the meandering storylines, as TH
> was basically just one storyline of the adventure of Bilbo and him
> being the central character, who was vehemently good or at least
> portrayed that way by Tolkien
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vehemently" target="_blank">http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vehemently</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Gollum ? |
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 2048
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 3:23 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Since: Oct 25, 2004
Posts: 384
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 4:13 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard DeleteThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5MVmc.5035$3x2.48469165@news-text.cableinet.net...
> Chris Wright <cjwright79 DeleteThis @shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> SSSHHH!!!
>
> He hasn't read LotR yet!
> He is a Wise Fool!
Hey, he asked. =P<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Gollum ? |
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Since: Mar 20, 2004
Posts: 43
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 4:34 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sat, 08 May 2004 00:00:19 GMT, "Chris Wright" <cjwright79 RemoveThis @shaw.ca>
wrote:
>> being the central character, who was vehemently good or at least
>> portrayed that way by Tolkien
>
>http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vehemently
>
"Characterized by forcefulness of expression or intensity of emotion
or conviction"
I don't know your point Chris, and I am not being argumentative, but I
think Bilbo did show vehemence in the way he was not fully committed
to being a burglar...or rather, didn't see himself as a burglar, but
as someone who was reclaiming stolen goods...
I agree he was not vehement in battle, just putting on the ring to
become invisible, but there is no way that children could find any bad
in the hero of the story, who was Bilbo Baggins, even though it was
Beorn the man-bear who forced the outcome of the battle...but who
children would see as having a fearsome streak...
Bilbo is painted by Tolkien as a Pacifist, who makes the most of his
good fortune in finding the ring, and then acts as peacemaker when
dispute over land and jewels arises...
don't take offence Chris, I often use words I don't fully understand
the meaning of, I remember being in hospital for depression and I was
having a conversation with my care coordinator and I used a word that
sounded good, but I now can't remember what it was, but I know it is a
word, and I would love to remember it and find out if I used it in the
correct way and it's true meaning...
one of the reasons I am looking forward to reading LOTR so much is
because of the language used and with an appreciation of Tolkien's
intelligence in using languages and a full understanding of why such
words are used...
Feel Free to Vote for Me - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.phpexpert.org/feelfree/" target="_blank">www.phpexpert.org/feelfree/</a>
I listen - I create policies
Classic Authors Appreciation Society - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bleachboys.com/caas/" target="_blank">www.bleachboys.com/caas/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Gollum ? |
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Since: Oct 25, 2004
Posts: 384
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 4:46 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Damian John Paul Brown" <damian.TakeThisOut@phpexpert.org> wrote in message
news:1ddo90dm14jrftm94n7r11o7ad2l3ntesv@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 08 May 2004 00:00:19 GMT, "Chris Wright" <cjwright79.TakeThisOut@shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
> >> being the central character, who was vehemently good or at least
> >> portrayed that way by Tolkien
> >
> >http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vehemently
> >
> "Characterized by forcefulness of expression or intensity of emotion
> or conviction"
>
> I don't know your point Chris,
I'll speak plainly then: you used the word confusingly, and therefore
inappropriately.
Perhaps in all fairness I should just say the sentence could have been
composed better. =)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Gollum ? |
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Since: Mar 20, 2004
Posts: 43
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 6:52 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Sat, 08 May 2004 01:46:43 GMT, "Chris Wright" <cjwright79 DeleteThis @shaw.ca>
wrote:
>> "Characterized by forcefulness of expression or intensity of emotion
>> or conviction"
>>
>> I don't know your point Chris,
>
>I'll speak plainly then: you used the word confusingly, and therefore
>inappropriately.
>
>Perhaps in all fairness I should just say the sentence could have been
>composed better. =)
>
I can't see Chris, that my use is inappropriate or even confusing,
unless the sentence is not gramattically correct, but I am a computer
programmer, and so very logical when I am typing on the keyboard...
Feel Free to Vote for Me - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.phpexpert.org/feelfree/" target="_blank">www.phpexpert.org/feelfree/</a>
I listen - I create policies
Classic Authors Appreciation Society - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bleachboys.com/caas/" target="_blank">www.bleachboys.com/caas/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Gollum ? |
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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 651
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 6:52 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sat, 8 May 2004 03:52:41 +0000 (UTC), in rec.arts.books.tolkien
Damian John Paul Brown <damian RemoveThis @phpexpert.org> wrote:
>
>I can't see Chris, that my use is inappropriate or even confusing,
>unless the sentence is not gramattically correct, but I am a computer
>programmer, and so very logical when I am typing on the keyboard...
>
Come on now! Being a 'computer programmer' is no excuse for bad
spelling and grammar. Actually a 'good' computer programmer even
documents well.
the softrat
A retired senior computer programmer - 25 years experience
the softrat
"I feel like I'm beating my head against a dead horse."
mailto:softrat@pobox.com
--
"Try to look unimportant; they may be low on ammo." - Infantry
Journal<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Gollum ? |
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Since: May 07, 2004
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Damian John Paul Brown <damian.TakeThisOut@phpexpert.org> astounded us with:
news:39tn90h1dr6vcm1gu6a5ne06s2bsgpbefk@4ax.com:
> I am just waiting to get on to LOTR after reading a John Steinbeck
> book first
> The Hobbit was the last book I read, and it only got interesting when
> Bilbo came across Gollum, this was because I had seen clips of Gollum
> on TV film footage and got a better picture of the characters
>
> so now I am curious of how Gollum comes to be in LOTR, as I thought
> that LOTR would have entirely new characters from TH
Nope, LOTR follows on from TH some 76 years later
--
Der Artzt ist in...
Geld zuerst
Behandlung zweite<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Gollum ? |
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Since: Mar 20, 2004
Posts: 43
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:04 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 07 May 2004 21:17:20 -0700, the softrat <softrat DeleteThis @pobox.com>
wrote:
>On Sat, 8 May 2004 03:52:41 +0000 (UTC), in rec.arts.books.tolkien
>Damian John Paul Brown <damian DeleteThis @phpexpert.org> wrote:
>>
>>I can't see Chris, that my use is inappropriate or even confusing,
>>unless the sentence is not gramattically correct, but I am a computer
>>programmer, and so very logical when I am typing on the keyboard...
>>
>Come on now! Being a 'computer programmer' is no excuse for bad
>spelling and grammar. Actually a 'good' computer programmer even
>documents well.
>
>the softrat
>A retired senior computer programmer - 25 years experience
only a computer programmer could have such biting wit like yours !!!
and I only have 21 years experience and I am still quite young (36)
I should have known you were a 'software engineer' with a nickname
like 'softrat'
Feel Free to Vote for Me - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.phpexpert.org/feelfree/" target="_blank">www.phpexpert.org/feelfree/</a>
I listen - I create policies - I serve
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Posts: 651
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:04 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sat, 8 May 2004 05:04:31 +0000 (UTC), Damian John Paul Brown
<damian DeleteThis @phpexpert.org> wrote:
>>
>>the softrat
>>A retired senior computer programmer - 25 years experience
>only a computer programmer could have such biting wit like yours !!!
>and I only have 21 years experience and I am still quite young (36)
>I should have known you were a 'software engineer' with a nickname
>like 'softrat'
>
All software 'engineers' are softrats. Just ask any hardware engineer.
---- scurrying evilly (and of course unnecessarily) through the
hardware and the design reviews ---
---- if only the customer had any brains, he'd have it ALL done in
hardware ----
---- where as is well known, there are no misteaks ----
---- how can one 'design software anyway? make a drawing of the bit
patterns? ----
the softrat
"I feel like I'm beating my head against a dead horse."
mailto:softrat@pobox.com
--
'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds. >> Stay informed about: Gollum ? |
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Since: Mar 20, 2004
Posts: 43
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:15 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Posts: 384
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 8:16 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Damian John Paul Brown" <damian DeleteThis @phpexpert.org> wrote in message
news:hamo90lvq3bq6ebo8s2qqanljncsvh7f8t@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 08 May 2004 01:46:43 GMT, "Chris Wright" <cjwright79 DeleteThis @shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >> "Characterized by forcefulness of expression or intensity of emotion
> >> or conviction"
> >>
> >> I don't know your point Chris,
> >
> >I'll speak plainly then: you used the word confusingly, and therefore
> >inappropriately.
> >
> >Perhaps in all fairness I should just say the sentence could have been
> >composed better. =)
> >
> I can't see Chris, that my use is inappropriate or even confusing,
> unless the sentence is not gramattically correct, but I am a computer
> programmer, and so very logical when I am typing on the keyboard...
Logical...
Well, there's certainly a lot more syntactic-specificity when programming,
i.e. you put the operators and parameters in a certain order, or else the
program won't function as planned.
When 'programming' a message for a human though, it's not always so obvious
how to best construct a sentence to maximize the chance that it'll be
understood.
All I can say, is that I didn't understand what you meant as soon as I hit
the word 'vehemently'. =)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Gollum ? |
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Since: Mar 20, 2004
Posts: 43
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 9:28 am
Post subject: Re: Gollum ? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sat, 08 May 2004 05:16:46 GMT, "Chris Wright" <cjwright79.RemoveThis@shaw.ca>
wrote:
>Logical...
>
>Well, there's certainly a lot more syntactic-specificity when programming,
>i.e. you put the operators and parameters in a certain order, or else the
>program won't function as planned.
>
>When 'programming' a message for a human though, it's not always so obvious
>how to best construct a sentence to maximize the chance that it'll be
>understood.
>
>All I can say, is that I didn't understand what you meant as soon as I hit
>the word 'vehemently'. =)
>
maybe you were just *surprised* ...
Feel Free to Vote for Me - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.phpexpert.org/feelfree/" target="_blank">www.phpexpert.org/feelfree/</a>
I listen - I create policies - I serve
Classic Authors Appreciation Society - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bleachboys.com/caas/" target="_blank">www.bleachboys.com/caas/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Gollum ? |
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