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Linards Ticmanis

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Since: Mar 10, 2005
Posts: 8



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:40 am
Post subject: Hobbit film
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien, others (more info?)

Ok, another thread on this one.

1.) Six dwarves are enough. Thorin, Balin, Dori, Gloin, Fili, Bombur.
Reasons: There's honestly not 13 real fleshed out dwarf personalities in
the Book. Also it is less confusing for the "uninitiated" not to have
similar names so I chose the most fleshed out one from every
similarily-named group. Six dwarves makes the Hobbit No. 7, still a
"lucky number". Thorin needs no explanation. Balin and Gloin, because of
the LOTR connections.(And Balin also because of his well defined
personality.) Dori, because he is closest to the Hobbit in several
scenes. Bombur for comic relief -- with full license from the Author
this time. Maybe Kili instead of Fili, I don't remember who of them is
more active and I don't have an e-text to look this up quickly -- but
one of them needs to die defending Thorin. As long as you don't have the
cliché "seven dwarfs", I think reducing their number is perfectly
acceptable.

2.) It would be great if John Rhys-Davis could play Gloin and Orlando
Bloom could play Thranduil. Both are a bit older now, which fits
perfectly. Legolas could be visible in passing once or twice, just use
some bluescreen left over from the LOTR cutting floor. I wouldn't have
Aragorn, Arwen, or Gimli appearing - I think Arwen was in Lothlorien at
the time and the others are too young to just appear without comment;
and I wouldn't like an appearance "with comment" since they are not
important to the story. (don't remember if Gimli was even born at the time).

3.) Hugo Weaving (sp?), the Sackville-Bagginses from the SEE (don't know
the actors' real names), and maybe Ian McKellen should be there -- but
only if they can get McKellen not to look much older than his grey
version looked anyway.

4.) I honestly don't think Elijah Wood would make a good Bilbo. He just
doesn't look tough enough and I think he's still too young. I'd try
getting a new actor. Suggestions? I'm thinking of someone more along the
lines of the Deagol character from the ROTK film prologue.

5.) I'd make the ringwearing effect similar to FOTR, but not
black-and-white, and as a whole much less pronounced and noisy, so the
full power is not revealed.

6.) As for other connections to LOTR, I'd have Balin mention his plan to
conquer Moria from the Orcs in the last scene. There needs to be
something that makes it clear he is identical to the guy whose grave
they find in FOTR. I wouldn't add more artificial connections.

7.) If any major scene has to be left out, I'd say drop Beorn if you
must. I think it is the least filmable chapter (the animals would be
hard to do without getting a caricature) and also doesn't add all that
much to Bilbo's character. You could quickly reprovision the group at
some small settlement of the Beornings or the Woodmen without having an
outstanding character among them. Next thing to drop would be Rivendell,
but that hurts already. Of course there are small thing which could go,
like the boating across the Mirkwood River (just have Bombur step into a
little brook or so).

8.) I don't think you can introduce a love interest into the plot
without totally changing it. Face it, there simply are no women in the
story to any meaningful extent (except for the spiders Smile. So don't.

9.) I don't yet have a good idea on who should do Smaug's voice. An
actor that has played Mafia patriarchs or some such before could be good.

10.) I'm not sure who would make a good Thorin. But this is really
important to get right. He should not be a caricature so the drama in
the end doesn't lose its power. But he should be over-serious in a fun
way. Maybe somebody who has played a goverment official or a master
craftsman of some sort before.

11.) Other important characters to be filled: The trolls, the Great
Orc(?), Bard, the Mayor.

fup2 rabt.
--
Linards Ticmanis

"Ego Augustus Bonifacius Ambrosius Aurelianus Antonius Pius et
Magnificus, dux, rex, tyrannus et Basileus Mediterranearum Partum,
subscribo." (J. R. R. Tolkien)

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danleach1

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Since: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 17



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:40 am
Post subject: Re: Hobbit film [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)

"Linards Ticmanis" <ticmanis DeleteThis @gmx.de> wrote in message
news:4230642d$0$1110$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net...
 > Ok, another thread on this one.
 >
 > 1.) Six dwarves are enough. Thorin, Balin, Dori, Gloin, Fili, Bombur.
 > Reasons: There's honestly not 13 real fleshed out dwarf personalities in
 > the Book. Also it is less confusing for the "uninitiated" not to have
 > similar names so I chose the most fleshed out one from every
 > similarily-named group. Six dwarves makes the Hobbit No. 7, still a
 > "lucky number". Thorin needs no explanation. Balin and Gloin, because of
 > the LOTR connections.(And Balin also because of his well defined
 > personality.) Dori, because he is closest to the Hobbit in several
 > scenes. Bombur for comic relief -- with full license from the Author
 > this time. Maybe Kili instead of Fili, I don't remember who of them is
 > more active and I don't have an e-text to look this up quickly -- but
 > one of them needs to die defending Thorin. As long as you don't have the
 > cliché "seven dwarfs", I think reducing their number is perfectly
 > acceptable.

Id stick with all 13
 > 2.) It would be great if John Rhys-Davis could play Gloin and Orlando
 > Bloom could play Thranduil. Both are a bit older now, which fits
 > perfectly. Legolas could be visible in passing once or twice, just use
 > some bluescreen left over from the LOTR cutting floor. I wouldn't have
 > Aragorn, Arwen, or Gimli appearing - I think Arwen was in Lothlorien at
 > the time and the others are too young to just appear without comment;
 > and I wouldn't like an appearance "with comment" since they are not
 > important to the story. (don't remember if Gimli was even born at the
time).

I agree with JRD but not orlando, i do think he should cameo a legolas bit
in the elven kings halls tho
 > 3.) Hugo Weaving (sp?), the Sackville-Bagginses from the SEE (don't know
 > the actors' real names), and maybe Ian McKellen should be there -- but
 > only if they can get McKellen not to look much older than his grey
 > version looked anyway.

Ian McKellen is an absolute must
 > 4.) I honestly don't think Elijah Wood would make a good Bilbo. He just
 > doesn't look tough enough and I think he's still too young. I'd try
 > getting a new actor. Suggestions? I'm thinking of someone more along the
 > lines of the Deagol character from the ROTK film prologue.

Ian Holme with some young-looking makeup?
 > 5.) If any major scene has to be left out, I'd say drop Beorn if you
 > must. I think it is the least filmable chapter (the animals would be
 > hard to do without getting a caricature) and also doesn't add all that
 > much to Bilbo's character. You could quickly reprovision the group at
 > some small settlement of the Beornings or the Woodmen without having an
 > outstanding character among them. Next thing to drop would be Rivendell,
 > but that hurts already. Of course there are small thing which could go,
 > like the boating across the Mirkwood River (just have Bombur step into a
 > little brook or so).
 >
 > 6.) I don't think you can introduce a love interest into the plot
 > without totally changing it. Face it, there simply are no women in the
 > story to any meaningful extent (except for the spiders Smile. So don't.

Agreed
 >
 > 7.) I don't yet have a good idea on who should do Smaug's voice. An
 > actor that has played Mafia patriarchs or some such before could be good.
 >
 > 8.) I'm not sure who would make a good Thorin. But this is really
 > important to get right. He should not be a caricature so the drama in
 > the end doesn't lose its power. But he should be over-serious in a fun
 > way. Maybe somebody who has played a goverment official or a master
 > craftsman of some sort before.
 >
 > 8.) Other important characters to be filled: The trolls, the Great
 > Orc(?), Bard, the Mayor.



Also, no one has mentioned this, but i think they could bring in some of the
stuff from the unfinished tales on the quest of erebor, just to flesh it out
and make it fit with LOTR more. And showing gandalf entering dol guldor,
finding that dwarf (whos name i cant remember) and discovering that the
necromancer is in fact sauron returned<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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lightbulb

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Since: Jan 17, 2005
Posts: 7



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Hobbit film [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Linards Ticmanis" <ticmanis.TakeThisOut@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:4230661d$0$1080$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net...
 > Ok, another thread on this one.
 >
 > 1.) Six dwarves are enough. Thorin, Balin, Dori, Gloin, Fili, Bombur.
 > Reasons: There's honestly not 13 real fleshed out dwarf personalities in
 > the Book. Also it is less confusing for the "uninitiated" not to have
 > similar names so I chose the most fleshed out one from every
 > similarily-named group. Six dwarves makes the Hobbit No. 7, still a
 > "lucky number". Thorin needs no explanation. Balin and Gloin, because of
 > the LOTR connections.(And Balin also because of his well defined
 > personality.) Dori, because he is closest to the Hobbit in several
 > scenes. Bombur for comic relief -- with full license from the Author
 > this time. Maybe Kili instead of Fili, I don't remember who of them is
 > more active and I don't have an e-text to look this up quickly -- but
 > one of them needs to die defending Thorin. As long as you don't have the
 > cliché "seven dwarfs", I think reducing their number is perfectly
 > acceptable.
 >
 > 2.) It would be great if John Rhys-Davis could play Gloin and Orlando
 > Bloom could play Thranduil. Both are a bit older now, which fits
 > perfectly. Legolas could be visible in passing once or twice, just use
 > some bluescreen left over from the LOTR cutting floor. I wouldn't have
 > Aragorn, Arwen, or Gimli appearing - I think Arwen was in Lothlorien at
 > the time and the others are too young to just appear without comment;
 > and I wouldn't like an appearance "with comment" since they are not
 > important to the story. (don't remember if Gimli was even born at the
time).
 >
 > 3.) Hugo Weaving (sp?), the Sackville-Bagginses from the SEE (don't know
 > the actors' real names), and maybe Ian McKellen should be there -- but
 > only if they can get McKellen not to look much older than his grey
 > version looked anyway.
 >
 > 4.) I honestly don't think Elijah Wood would make a good Bilbo. He just
 > doesn't look tough enough and I think he's still too young. I'd try
 > getting a new actor. Suggestions? I'm thinking of someone more along the
 > lines of the Deagol character from the ROTK film prologue.

At the end of the movie ROTK, when The Hobbits are in the Green Dragon,
there appears in the background another hobbit who looks remarkably like
Deagol. Anybody else notice that? I wouldn't use that guy. He doesn't
look sophisticated enough to mingle with elves or even read.


Mike<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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michele

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Since: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 154



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:40 am
Post subject: Re: Hobbit film [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <kH6Yd.65$Rr.55@fe03.lga>, lightbulb
<lightbulb.DeleteThis@chartermi.net> writes

 >At the end of the movie ROTK, when The Hobbits are in the Green Dragon,
 >there appears in the background another hobbit who looks remarkably like
 >Deagol. Anybody else notice that? I wouldn't use that guy. He doesn't
 >look sophisticated enough to mingle with elves or even read.

Are you talking about the hobbit with the pumpkin in the background ? He
was actually played by Andy "Gollum" Serkis...

Michele
==
There is no book so bad that it is not profitable on some part.

- Pliny the Younger
==
Now reading: Men at Arms - Terry Pratchett
==
Commit random acts of literacy! Read & Release at Bookcrossing:
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user1302

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Since: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 38



(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:40 pm
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Michele Fry wrote:
 > In article <kH6Yd.65$Rr.55@fe03.lga>, lightbulb
 > <lightbulb.DeleteThis@chartermi.net> writes
 >
  >> At the end of the movie ROTK, when The Hobbits are in the Green
  >> Dragon, there appears in the background another hobbit who looks
  >> remarkably like Deagol. Anybody else notice that? I wouldn't use
  >> that guy. He doesn't look sophisticated enough to mingle with elves
  >> or even read.
 >
 > Are you talking about the hobbit with the pumpkin in the background ?
 > He was actually played by Andy "Gollum" Serkis...
 >

I thought this was true at one point, but it isn't. That actor is someone
else, not Andy Serkis. There is a resemblance, though.

--
Gregg C.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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John Adcox

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Since: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 1



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:40 pm
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On 3/10/05 10:22 AM, in article
4230661d$0$1080$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net, "Linards Ticmanis"
<ticmanis.TakeThisOut@gmx.de> wrote:

 > 9.) I don't yet have a good idea on who should do Smaug's voice. An
 > actor that has played Mafia patriarchs or some such before could be good.

If Christopher Lee hadn't already been tapped, he would be my choice.

Alas.

J

--
"Our Deepest Fear... is not that we are inadequate,
our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.
We ask ourselves, "Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous,
talented and fabulous?" Actually, who are you not to be?
You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve
the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking
so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We
were born to make manifest the glory of God within us.
It is not just in some of us, it is in everyone. And as
we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other
people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from
our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."

-- Marianne Williamson

_____________
John Adcox
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://jadcox.home.mindspring.com" target="_blank">http://jadcox.home.mindspring.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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michele

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Since: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 154



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:40 pm
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In article <VLjYd.3184$ZB6.585@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>, Gregg
Cattanach <gcattanach-SKIP-.TakeThisOut@prodigy.net> writes

 >I thought this was true at one point, but it isn't. That actor is someone
 >else, not Andy Serkis. There is a resemblance, though.

Who is it then ?

Michele
==
There is no book so bad that it is not profitable on some part.

- Pliny the Younger
==
Now reading: Men at Arms - Terry Pratchett
==
Commit random acts of literacy! Read & Release at Bookcrossing:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bookcrossing.com/friend/Sass-80" target="_blank">http://www.bookcrossing.com/friend/Sass-80</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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softrat

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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 651



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:40 pm
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On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:49:51 +0000, Michele Fry
<michele.TakeThisOut@sassoonery.demon.co.uk> wrote:

 >In article <VLjYd.3184$ZB6.585@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>, Gregg
 >Cattanach <gcattanach-SKIP-.TakeThisOut@prodigy.net> writes
 >
  >>I thought this was true at one point, but it isn't. That actor is someone
  >>else, not Andy Serkis. There is a resemblance, though.
 >
 >Who is it then ?
 >
 >Michele
 >
It's the *other* dude ..... Deagol.


the softrat
"Honi soit qui mal y pense."
mailto:softrat@pobox.com
--
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need
it. -- Steven Wright<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user1302

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Since: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 38



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:40 pm
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Michele Fry wrote:
 > In article <VLjYd.3184$ZB6.585@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>, Gregg
 > Cattanach <gcattanach-SKIP-.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> writes
 >
  >> I thought this was true at one point, but it isn't. That actor is
  >> someone else, not Andy Serkis. There is a resemblance, though.
 >
 > Who is it then ?
 >

I don't believe his part was big enough to make the credits. But I read on
some fansite that this was definitely not Andy Serkis. You'd have to admit
that would be a really stupid casting decision.

--
Gregg C.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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spamgard

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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 2048



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Hobbit film [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>fan>tolkien, others (more info?)

[added in AFT]

Linards Ticmanis <ticmanis.DeleteThis@gmx.de> wrote:
 > Ok, another thread on this one.

<snip>

Interesting thoughts. But there is a presumption there that Peter
Jackson will be directing 'The Hobbit' film, if it ever gets made. I
haven't seen this discussed in these newsgroups, but there was something
in the news a few days ago about Peter Jackson suing(!) New Line for not
giving him enough money (New Line are alleged to have got some
calculations wrong).

So the question is, how will this little (if it is little) legal dispute
affect the future of a film of 'The Hobbit'? How much control do New
Line have over the rights, and how much control does Jackson have? Who
has the rights to reuse the special effects and scenery designs? When
does the license from Saul Zaentz run out? Have those other legal issues
been sorted out yet (the distribution rights are split between at least
two companies)?

Christopher

--
---
Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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spamgard

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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 2048



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:40 pm
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Archived from groups: rec>arts>books>tolkien (more info?)

Gregg Cattanach <gcattanach-SKIP-.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> wrote:
 > Michele Fry wrote:
  >> Gregg Cattanach <gcattanach-SKIP-.DeleteThis@prodigy.net> writes
  >>
   >>> I thought this was true at one point, but it isn't. That actor is
   >>> someone else, not Andy Serkis. There is a resemblance, though.
  >>
  >> Who is it then ?
 >
 > I don't believe his part was big enough to make the credits. But I
 > read on some fansite that this was definitely not Andy Serkis. You'd
 > have to admit that would be a really stupid casting decision.

LOL!

<Frodo gets a funny look on his face and whispers>

"Sam, don't look now, but we're not alone!"

<Sam looks anyway and gasps>

"It's that Gollum, Mr Frodo! He's found the pumpkin-ring and come back
to life as that Smeagol bloke that we've never seen, but who was in that
film prologue."

<Merry and Pippin look at each other as if Sam and Frodo are mad, and
start to quietly edge away from them>

The fictitious Andy Serkis hobbit then presents the pumpkin to Rose
Cotton who does a "mad-Galadriel", screaming that all will love her and
despair. Things go a bit crazy after that. But Sam still ends up with
Rose.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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spamgard

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Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 2048



(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:40 pm
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Linards Ticmanis <ticmanis.RemoveThis@gmx.de> wrote:

 > 7.) If any major scene has to be left out, I'd say drop Beorn

Got to have Beorn as the deus ex machina in the final battle.

 > 11.) Other important characters to be filled

You forgot Gollum.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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michele

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Since: Oct 28, 2004
Posts: 154



(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:40 am
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In article <vInYd.2562$QN1.2465@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Christopher
Kreuzer <spamgard.DeleteThis@blueyonder.co.uk> writes

 >Interesting thoughts. But there is a presumption there that Peter
 >Jackson will be directing 'The Hobbit' film, if it ever gets made. I
 >haven't seen this discussed in these newsgroups, but there was something
 >in the news a few days ago about Peter Jackson suing(!) New Line for not
 >giving him enough money (New Line are alleged to have got some
 >calculations wrong).
 >
 >So the question is, how will this little (if it is little) legal dispute
 >affect the future of a film of 'The Hobbit'? How much control do New
 >Line have over the rights, and how much control does Jackson have? Who
 >has the rights to reuse the special effects and scenery designs? When
 >does the license from Saul Zaentz run out? Have those other legal issues
 >been sorted out yet (the distribution rights are split between at least
 >two companies)?

Here's the latest from Peter Jackson on a Hobbit film:

The Hobbit at Least 3 Years Away
Source: AAP March 12, 2005

Director Peter Jackson says it will be at least three years before
production may start on "The Lord of the Rings" prequel, The Hobbit,
says the AAP.

"Three or four years would be accurate, I would say," Jackson said about
the possible film.

Jackson this weekend took a break from his busy schedule filming King
Kong in Auckland, stopping by Sydney's Powerhouse Museum to check out
the "Lord of the Rings" exhibition.

The rights to J.R.R. Tolkien's novel, "The Hobbit," are split between
MGM and New Line Cinema. Jackson said he was keen to return to Middle
Earth but that MGM's sale to a consortium led by Sony made the project's
future unclear.

"I think there is probably a will and a desire to try and get it made,"
he added. "But I think it's gonna be a lot of lawyers sitting in a room
trying to thrash out a deal before it will ever happen."

From: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.comingsoon.net/news/topnews.php?id=8728" target="_blank">http://www.comingsoon.net/news/topnews.php?id=8728</a>
==
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- Pliny the Younger
==
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==
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spamgard

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Since: Jan 31, 2004
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:40 am
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Michele Fry <michele.RemoveThis@sassoonery.demon.co.uk> wrote:

 > Here's the latest from Peter Jackson on a Hobbit film:
 >
 > The Hobbit at Least 3 Years Away
 > Source: AAP March 12, 2005

Aaagghh! Three years of casting threads for 'The Hobbit'. Smile<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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michele

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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:40 pm
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In article <scAYd.2822$QN1.2242@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Christopher
Kreuzer <spamgard.DeleteThis@blueyonder.co.uk> writes

 >Aaagghh! Three years of casting threads for 'The Hobbit'. Smile

Well you don't HAVE to read them, if you're that bothered by the
thought... You can just mark them "not interesting" or "Kill" them or
whatever your newsreader allows you to do (mine can do both)...

Michele
==
There is no book so bad that it is not profitable on some part.

- Pliny the Younger
==
Now reading: Jingo - Terry Pratchett
==
Commit random acts of literacy! Read & Release at Bookcrossing:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bookcrossing.com/friend/Sass-80" target="_blank">http://www.bookcrossing.com/friend/Sass-80</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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