The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls.

pawn wrote:
> Yet they lived a 1000 years without succumbing to misadventure, even
> though we know they took grave risks. Discuss.

They lived longer than that: they arrived in Middle-earth around 1000
(3rd Age) according to UT: The Istari. We don't know what happens to the
Blue Wizards, other than that they pass into the east with Saruman but
never return. That said it's unlikely that they went there for their
health... We also do not know what Radagast did, apart form talk to the
animals.

Saruman travelled much early on, but eventually occupies Isengard in
2759, which means he spends approximately 1750 years wandering around.
We know he spent time in Minas Tirith, researching the Ring (presumably
amongst other things), and I would guess he also spent time in Imladris
and Annuminas conducting similar research. But that isn't going to fill
all that time. There's never any indication that Saruman did anything
dangerous however, other than his initial journey into the East, which
isn't to say that he didn't do lots of terrifically exciting things.

Gandalf however always seems to have been in the thick of it. He first
enters Dol Guldur in 2063, and does so again in 2850. He also enters
Moria when searching for Thrain, something which he spent some time
over. Of course, the second time Gandalf enters Moria he *does* succumb
to misadventure. And he got involved with Thorin's expedition. Plus
Aragorn states "I have been with him on many a journey, if never a one
so dark; and there are tales of Rivendell of greater deeds of his than
any that I have seen." (FotR: A Journy in the Dark). Perhaps the real
question is how come Gandalf survives so long?!

Perhaps the Tale of Years was written by Gandalf, so that he could put a
good spin on himself to the detriment of his colleagues.

Jamie
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls. 

Stan Brown wrote:
> Wed, 02 Jan 2008 23:33:18 -0500 from pawn <pawn.RemoveThis@porthouse.com>:
>> Yet they lived a 1000 years without succumbing to misadventure, even
>> though we know they took grave risks. Discuss.
>
> Sorry, I might like to answer questions or respond to conjectures,
> but I don't respond well to orders issued in peremptory tone.
>
So you never answered any questions at university then, Stan? I think
that's the spirit in which pawn was writing.

Jamie
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls. 

pawn wrote:

> Yet they lived a 1000 years without succumbing to misadventure, even
> though we know they took grave risks. Discuss.

OK, then. I'd have to say it's a completely insupportable hypothesis.

The Blue Wizards _surely_ succumbed to misadventure.
Saruman succumbed to Sauron.
Radagast seems to have wandered off into Dr. Doolittle land.

Only one of the Wizards survived to the beginning of the War of the Ring
while remaining completely true to his mission (and he promptly got himself
killed by a winged Balrog), and one was untainted but losing interest. I
think the Istari seem to be as prone to mortal failings as mortals.
--
derek
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls. 

pawn wrote:

> Yet they lived a 1000 years without succumbing to misadventure, even
> though we know they took grave risks. Discuss.

They were pretty darn tough! "There are some stout folk here with us.
Whatever may be in store for old Gandalf, I'll wager it isn't a wolf's
belly."

Zorag.
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls. 

In article <flim3b$3dd$2@heffalump.dur.ac.uk>,
Jamie Armstrong <J.D.Armstrong.DeleteThis@durham.ac.uk> wrote:

> Stan Brown wrote:
> > Wed, 02 Jan 2008 23:33:18 -0500 from pawn <pawn.DeleteThis@porthouse.com>:
> >> Yet they lived a 1000 years without succumbing to misadventure, even
> >> though we know they took grave risks. Discuss.
> >
> > Sorry, I might like to answer questions or respond to conjectures,
> > but I don't respond well to orders issued in peremptory tone.
> >
> So you never answered any questions at university then, Stan? I think
> that's the spirit in which pawn was writing.

Is pawn our professor? Will any answers received be graded? Even the
quizzes here have less of an examination-like tone than that "Discuss"
conveys. Not very collegial, anyway ...

--
Odysseus
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls. 

Derek Broughton wrote:
> pawn wrote:
>
>> Yet they lived a 1000 years without succumbing to misadventure, even
>> though we know they took grave risks. Discuss.
>
> OK, then. I'd have to say it's a completely insupportable hypothesis.
>

Thanks. One question: what hypothesis?


> The Blue Wizards _surely_ succumbed to misadventure.
> Saruman succumbed to Sauron.
> Radagast seems to have wandered off into Dr. Doolittle land.
>
> Only one of the Wizards survived to the beginning of the War of the Ring
> while remaining completely true to his mission (and he promptly got himself
> killed by a winged Balrog), and one was untainted but losing interest. I
> think the Istari seem to be as prone to mortal failings as mortals.
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls. 

Stan Brown wrote:
> Wed, 02 Jan 2008 23:33:18 -0500 from pawn <pawn.DeleteThis@porthouse.com>:
>> Yet they lived a 1000 years without succumbing to misadventure, even
>> though we know they took grave risks. Discuss.
>
> Sorry, I might like to answer questions or respond to conjectures,
> but I don't respond well to orders issued in peremptory tone.
>

But, as always, you don't seem to have a problem being a pompous ass. HTH.
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls. 

pawn wrote:

> Derek Broughton wrote:
>> pawn wrote:
>>
>>> Yet they lived a 1000 years without succumbing to misadventure, even
>>> though we know they took grave risks. Discuss.
>>
>> OK, then. I'd have to say it's a completely insupportable hypothesis.
>>
>
> Thanks. One question: what hypothesis?

You know, I was willing to indulge you when others weren't, but if you're
just going to be stupid, you can play on your own. Apparently your command
referred to the rest of us doing the discussing, and you're just a troll.
--
derek
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls. 

Derek Broughton wrote:
> pawn wrote:
>
>> Derek Broughton wrote:
>>> pawn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yet they lived a 1000 years without succumbing to misadventure, even
>>>> though we know they took grave risks. Discuss.
>>> OK, then. I'd have to say it's a completely insupportable hypothesis.
>>>
>> Thanks. One question: what hypothesis?
>
> You know, I was willing to indulge you when others weren't, but if you're
> just going to be stupid, you can play on your own. Apparently your command
> referred to the rest of us doing the discussing, and you're just a troll.


I don't remember making this hypothesis.
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls. 

[Cross-posted to AFT]

"Odysseus" <odysseus1479-at DeleteThis @yahoo-dot.ca> wrote

<snip>

> Is pawn our professor? Will any answers received be graded? Even the
> quizzes here have less of an examination-like tone than that "Discuss"
> conveys. Not very collegial, anyway ...

Ooh! Anyone want another quiz?
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls. 

Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:27:18 GMT from Odysseus <odysseus1479-at@yahoo-
dot.ca>:
> In article <flim3b$3dd$2@heffalump.dur.ac.uk>,
> Jamie Armstrong <J.D.Armstrong.RemoveThis@durham.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > Stan Brown wrote:
> > > Wed, 02 Jan 2008 23:33:18 -0500 from pawn <pawn.RemoveThis@porthouse.com>:
> > >> Yet they lived a 1000 years without succumbing to misadventure, even
> > >> though we know they took grave risks. Discuss.
> > >
> > > Sorry, I might like to answer questions or respond to conjectures,
> > > but I don't respond well to orders issued in peremptory tone.
> > >
> > So you never answered any questions at university then, Stan? I think
> > that's the spirit in which pawn was writing.
>
> Is pawn our professor? Will any answers received be graded? Even the
> quizzes here have less of an examination-like tone than that "Discuss"
> conveys. Not very collegial, anyway ...

Very well put.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
http://mysite.verizon.net/aznirb/mtr/lettersfaq.html
FAQ of the Rings: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls. 

In article <TrAfj.133808$cJ3.19250@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
"Christopher Kreuzer" <spamgard DeleteThis @blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>
>
> Ooh! Anyone want another quiz?

Will it count towards our grades?

--
Odysseus
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls. 

> Ooh! Anyone want another quiz?

Is that the first question?
 >> Stay informed about: The Istari were susceptible to mortal pitfalls.