Kerouac disowning "beat generation"?

The film What Happened to Kerouac? presents indicators that he was a
changed man towards the end of his life. It includes footage from his
interviews with Buckley?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090312/

On Oct 25, 6:15 am, "Neil W." <n... RemoveThis @NOSPAMTHANKYOUnetlib.com> wrote:
> I heard that towards the end of his (very short) life, Kerouac disowned and
> excoriated Ginsberg and the members of the beat culture that he himself
> helped define. Is there any support for that?
 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"? 

Neil W. wrote:
> I heard that towards the end of his (very short) life, Kerouac disowned and
> excoriated Ginsberg and the members of the beat culture that he himself
> helped define. Is there any support for that?

Kerouac hated that "Beat" became synonymous w/ bongos, sandals, wearing
black turtlenecks, smoking pot etc .. His idea of beat derived from the
word "beatific" and involved spiritual searching, love, ecstasy of the
soul and God..

Furthermore, the idea that the Beat generation was the precursor to the
hippies really upset Kerouac; the reason being that Kerouac associated
the hippies as being anti-american. Kerouac was extremely patriotic,
and the hippies protest of the Vietnam War & Kesey using the American
flag as clothing and furniture decorations really disgusted him.

To me, Kerouac did not turn his back on the ideas of the Beat culture.
Instead, Beat ideals turned their backs on him, becoming commercial and
insincere.
 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"? 

<elvishasrisen DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162617494.676421.50940@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Kerouac hated that "Beat" became synonymous w/ bongos, sandals, wearing
> black turtlenecks, smoking pot etc .. His idea of beat derived from the
> word "beatific" and involved spiritual searching, love, ecstasy of the
> soul and God..
>
> Furthermore, the idea that the Beat generation was the precursor to the
> hippies really upset Kerouac; the reason being that Kerouac associated
> the hippies as being anti-american. Kerouac was extremely patriotic ...

But was he? I've yet to be convinced. I've read statements like this many
times but no one has been able to show me examples of it in Kerouac's
writings. On the contrary, here's Kerouac writing about his country, from
his recently published book:

"Gad I hate America with a passionate intensity --
It aint no atom bomb will blow up America,
America itself is a bomb bound to go off from within --
What monster lurks there ..."

(Jack Kerouac, 1952, Book of Sketches, p.148)

You can find similar sentiments expressed in Kerouac's later writings,
particularly in Lonesome Traveler and Vanity of Duluoz.


pitou
 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"? 

"i am not a beatnik, i am a catholic". i'm pretty sure this is the quote
you are looking for. as for him trying to distance himself from the beat
generation, i think he felt trapped in a world in which he was pushed
into, like bob dylan and kurt cobain didn't want to be known as
spokesmen for thier generations, so did kerouac. fame can crush you in
ways only the famous know.....


http://community.webtv.net/dylanfan1969/DylanFan1969sLinks
 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"? 

pitou wrote:
> <elvishasrisen RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1162617494.676421.50940@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Kerouac hated that "Beat" became synonymous w/ bongos, sandals, wearing
> > black turtlenecks, smoking pot etc .. His idea of beat derived from the
> > word "beatific" and involved spiritual searching, love, ecstasy of the
> > soul and God..
> >
> > Furthermore, the idea that the Beat generation was the precursor to the
> > hippies really upset Kerouac; the reason being that Kerouac associated
> > the hippies as being anti-american. Kerouac was extremely patriotic ...
>
> But was he? I've yet to be convinced. I've read statements like this many
> times but no one has been able to show me examples of it in Kerouac's
> writings. On the contrary, here's Kerouac writing about his country, from
> his recently published book:
>
> "Gad I hate America with a passionate intensity --
> It aint no atom bomb will blow up America,
> America itself is a bomb bound to go off from within --
> What monster lurks there ..."
>
> (Jack Kerouac, 1952, Book of Sketches, p.148)
>
> You can find similar sentiments expressed in Kerouac's later writings,
> particularly in Lonesome Traveler and Vanity of Duluoz.
>
>
> pitou

pitou,

How can you not see On The Road as a glorious celebration of America
and all of the opportunities and possiblities that lie within; it's a
20th century Leaves of Grass

Is not Lowell repeatedly described as the greatest place on earth, with
a standard that no other locales can measure up to?

His support of the Vietnam War is documented in writing & tv shows, and
Kerouac carefully folding up the flag that he felt Kesey was
desecrating seems well documented.

To me, his entire work seems to be a celebration of America - its
landscapes, it's music, its freedom & its people.
 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"? 

Anthony Fazio wrote:
> "i am not a beatnik, i am a catholic". i'm pretty sure this is the quote
> you are looking for. as for him trying to distance himself from the beat
> generation, i think he felt trapped in a world in which he was pushed
> into, like bob dylan and kurt cobain didn't want to be known as
> spokesmen for thier generations, so did kerouac. fame can crush you in
> ways only the famous know.....
>

One finds in Kerouac's books a man who thrived on adventure, on
travelling, on nature and the solitude and solace he found in it, on
friendships with a small group of men and women. His was the kind of
life that best led in anonymity. Fame, to say the least, destroyed that
life. How can you live a free and independent existence when there is
someone on every other street who will recognize you and bother you and
want to hang out with you? When you are confronted with magazine
writers looking for interviews, and hustlers trying to take advantage
of you, and ordinary people talking to you not as one human being to
another but as a fan talking to a celebrity. Kerouac must have hated
every single moment of that nonsense.

Bob Champ
 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"? 

Remember that Kerouac was FOR the American soldier, or, for that
matter, ANY soldier, entirely empathizing for those drafted into a
conflict they did not devise. Most times he was indifferent to the
political cause at large.

Read Vanity of Duluoz for his insight about the blonde-haired German,
putting himself into his enemy's shoes. Kerouac has also written
heartfelt prose pieces about Robert Kennedy after his assassination,
the dead soldiers upon the battlefield after WWII, and his beaming love
for his country that allowed him, his father and his grandfather to
prosper and raise families.

His little rant in book of Sketches comes from a bitter time in his
life when he was trying to get published. Kerouac's emotions sometimes
boil over into temporary bitterness that we cannot interpret as his
emotions-at-large. After all, we each have our own bad days, don't we?


pitou wrote:
> <elvishasrisen.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1162694919.785935.48110@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > pitou wrote:
> >> <elvishasrisen.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1162617494.676421.50940@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > Kerouac hated that "Beat" became synonymous w/ bongos, sandals, wearing
> >> > black turtlenecks, smoking pot etc .. His idea of beat derived from the
> >> > word "beatific" and involved spiritual searching, love, ecstasy of the
> >> > soul and God..
> >> >
> >> > Furthermore, the idea that the Beat generation was the precursor to the
> >> > hippies really upset Kerouac; the reason being that Kerouac associated
> >> > the hippies as being anti-american. Kerouac was extremely patriotic ...
> >>
> >> But was he? I've yet to be convinced. I've read statements like this
> >> many
> >> times but no one has been able to show me examples of it in Kerouac's
> >> writings. On the contrary, here's Kerouac writing about his country, from
> >> his recently published book:
> >>
> >> "Gad I hate America with a passionate intensity --
> >> It aint no atom bomb will blow up America,
> >> America itself is a bomb bound to go off from within --
> >> What monster lurks there ..."
> >>
> >> (Jack Kerouac, 1952, Book of Sketches, p.148)
> >>
> >> You can find similar sentiments expressed in Kerouac's later writings,
> >> particularly in Lonesome Traveler and Vanity of Duluoz.
> >>
> >>
> >> pitou
> >
> >
> > pitou,
> >
> > How can you not see On The Road as a glorious celebration of America
>
>
> I don't see On the Road as an overly patriotic work. If you do, let's have
> some specific examples.
>
> > Is not Lowell repeatedly described as the greatest place on earth, with
> > a standard that no other locales can measure up to?
>
> Nostalgic reminiscences of his boyhood there. In later years he called it
> "stinktown on the Merrimack" and stayed away.
>
> > His support of the Vietnam War is documented in writing & tv shows
>
> The only comment of his on TV that I'm aware of blames the Vietnamese for
> starting the war to get American Jeeps into the country.
>
> > Kerouac carefully folding up the flag that he felt Kesey was
> > desecrating seems well documented.
>
> Third-hand accounts. The photographs of the occasion I've seen show Jack
> with the flag around his neck, smiling. He doesn't seem upset.
>
> > To me, his entire work seems to be a celebration of America - its
> > landscapes, it's music, its freedom & its people.
>
> OK, but where's the extreme patriotism? I don't see it. I've given you "Gad
> I hate America with a passionate intensity" as a counter-example to this
> claim, and could provide many others. How about some direct quotes that
> prove your statement that "Kerouac was extremely patriotic" then maybe we
> can take the discussion further?
>
> But, having read most of Kerouac's writings it appears to me that he was not
> even especially enamoured with the concept of patriotism:
>
> "Politics, gambling, hard work, drinking, patriotism, protest,
> pooh-poohings, all therapeutic shifts against the black void." (After Me,
> the Deluge - 1969)
>
> "When a country is in confusion and discord, ideas of loyalty and patriotism
> arise." (On the Road Back - 1958)
>
>
> pitou
 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"? 

paul_maherjr.DeleteThis@yahoo.com wrote:
> Remember that Kerouac was FOR the American soldier, or, for that
> matter, ANY soldier, entirely empathizing for those drafted into a
> conflict they did not devise. Most times he was indifferent to the
> political cause at large.
>
> Read Vanity of Duluoz for his insight about the blonde-haired German,
> putting himself into his enemy's shoes. Kerouac has also written
> heartfelt prose pieces about Robert Kennedy after his assassination,
> the dead soldiers upon the battlefield after WWII, and his beaming love
> for his country that allowed him, his father and his grandfather to
> prosper and raise families.
>
> His little rant in book of Sketches comes from a bitter time in his
> life when he was trying to get published. Kerouac's emotions sometimes
> boil over into temporary bitterness that we cannot interpret as his
> emotions-at-large. After all, we each have our own bad days, don't we?

Well, there was also Kerouac's very unfortunate feelings of
Anti-Semitism and homophobia (while often oddly showing a bi-sexual
bent simultaneously) in the final years... a complicated and tragic
figure, old Jack was.

--
"Ozone Stigmata" by Dockery & Conley
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

Will Dockery videos:
http://tinyurl.com/yfmzeq

> pitou wrote:
> > <elvishasrisen.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1162694919.785935.48110@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > pitou wrote:
> > >> <elvishasrisen.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:1162617494.676421.50940@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> > >> >
> > >> > Kerouac hated that "Beat" became synonymous w/ bongos, sandals, wearing
> > >> > black turtlenecks, smoking pot etc .. His idea of beat derived from the
> > >> > word "beatific" and involved spiritual searching, love, ecstasy of the
> > >> > soul and God..
> > >> >
> > >> > Furthermore, the idea that the Beat generation was the precursor to the
> > >> > hippies really upset Kerouac; the reason being that Kerouac associated
> > >> > the hippies as being anti-american. Kerouac was extremely patriotic ...
> > >>
> > >> But was he? I've yet to be convinced. I've read statements like this
> > >> many
> > >> times but no one has been able to show me examples of it in Kerouac's
> > >> writings. On the contrary, here's Kerouac writing about his country, from
> > >> his recently published book:
> > >>
> > >> "Gad I hate America with a passionate intensity --
> > >> It aint no atom bomb will blow up America,
> > >> America itself is a bomb bound to go off from within --
> > >> What monster lurks there ..."
> > >>
> > >> (Jack Kerouac, 1952, Book of Sketches, p.148)
> > >>
> > >> You can find similar sentiments expressed in Kerouac's later writings,
> > >> particularly in Lonesome Traveler and Vanity of Duluoz.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> pitou
> > >
> > >
> > > pitou,
> > >
> > > How can you not see On The Road as a glorious celebration of America
> >
> >
> > I don't see On the Road as an overly patriotic work. If you do, let's have
> > some specific examples.
> >
> > > Is not Lowell repeatedly described as the greatest place on earth, with
> > > a standard that no other locales can measure up to?
> >
> > Nostalgic reminiscences of his boyhood there. In later years he called it
> > "stinktown on the Merrimack" and stayed away.
> >
> > > His support of the Vietnam War is documented in writing & tv shows
> >
> > The only comment of his on TV that I'm aware of blames the Vietnamese for
> > starting the war to get American Jeeps into the country.
> >
> > > Kerouac carefully folding up the flag that he felt Kesey was
> > > desecrating seems well documented.
> >
> > Third-hand accounts. The photographs of the occasion I've seen show Jack
> > with the flag around his neck, smiling. He doesn't seem upset.
> >
> > > To me, his entire work seems to be a celebration of America - its
> > > landscapes, it's music, its freedom & its people.
> >
> > OK, but where's the extreme patriotism? I don't see it. I've given you "Gad
> > I hate America with a passionate intensity" as a counter-example to this
> > claim, and could provide many others. How about some direct quotes that
> > prove your statement that "Kerouac was extremely patriotic" then maybe we
> > can take the discussion further?
> >
> > But, having read most of Kerouac's writings it appears to me that he was not
> > even especially enamoured with the concept of patriotism:
> >
> > "Politics, gambling, hard work, drinking, patriotism, protest,
> > pooh-poohings, all therapeutic shifts against the black void." (After Me,
> > the Deluge - 1969)
> >
> > "When a country is in confusion and discord, ideas of loyalty and patriotism
> > arise." (On the Road Back - 1958)
> >
> >
> > pitou
 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"? 

<elvishasrisen.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162694919.785935.48110@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> pitou wrote:
>> <elvishasrisen.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1162617494.676421.50940@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Kerouac hated that "Beat" became synonymous w/ bongos, sandals, wearing
>> > black turtlenecks, smoking pot etc .. His idea of beat derived from the
>> > word "beatific" and involved spiritual searching, love, ecstasy of the
>> > soul and God..
>> >
>> > Furthermore, the idea that the Beat generation was the precursor to the
>> > hippies really upset Kerouac; the reason being that Kerouac associated
>> > the hippies as being anti-american. Kerouac was extremely patriotic ...
>>
>> But was he? I've yet to be convinced. I've read statements like this
>> many
>> times but no one has been able to show me examples of it in Kerouac's
>> writings. On the contrary, here's Kerouac writing about his country, from
>> his recently published book:
>>
>> "Gad I hate America with a passionate intensity --
>> It aint no atom bomb will blow up America,
>> America itself is a bomb bound to go off from within --
>> What monster lurks there ..."
>>
>> (Jack Kerouac, 1952, Book of Sketches, p.148)
>>
>> You can find similar sentiments expressed in Kerouac's later writings,
>> particularly in Lonesome Traveler and Vanity of Duluoz.
>>
>>
>> pitou
>
>
> pitou,
>
> How can you not see On The Road as a glorious celebration of America


I don't see On the Road as an overly patriotic work. If you do, let's have
some specific examples.

> Is not Lowell repeatedly described as the greatest place on earth, with
> a standard that no other locales can measure up to?

Nostalgic reminiscences of his boyhood there. In later years he called it
"stinktown on the Merrimack" and stayed away.

> His support of the Vietnam War is documented in writing & tv shows

The only comment of his on TV that I'm aware of blames the Vietnamese for
starting the war to get American Jeeps into the country.

> Kerouac carefully folding up the flag that he felt Kesey was
> desecrating seems well documented.

Third-hand accounts. The photographs of the occasion I've seen show Jack
with the flag around his neck, smiling. He doesn't seem upset.

> To me, his entire work seems to be a celebration of America - its
> landscapes, it's music, its freedom & its people.

OK, but where's the extreme patriotism? I don't see it. I've given you "Gad
I hate America with a passionate intensity" as a counter-example to this
claim, and could provide many others. How about some direct quotes that
prove your statement that "Kerouac was extremely patriotic" then maybe we
can take the discussion further?

But, having read most of Kerouac's writings it appears to me that he was not
even especially enamoured with the concept of patriotism:

"Politics, gambling, hard work, drinking, patriotism, protest,
pooh-poohings, all therapeutic shifts against the black void." (After Me,
the Deluge - 1969)

"When a country is in confusion and discord, ideas of loyalty and patriotism
arise." (On the Road Back - 1958)


pitou
 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"? 

Ask the very Jewish David Amram or Joyce Johnson if THEY felt Kerouac
being anti-Semitic toward them. Kerouac was more bothered by Ginsberg's
politics than his Jewishness . . . or Norman Mailer and numerous
others that Kerouac aligned his artistry with.

Kerouac was obsessed with his notion of a "Jewish mafia" than a
negative bent toward their religious beliefs. Jewish book critics and
publishers,typically but not exclusively, a part of the Manhattan
intellegentsia, got on the nerves of the cash-strapped 1960s Kerouac.
This doesn't forgive his expletive-ridden tirades when drunk (like
Gibson I suppose), but it was in no way fueled from a subconscious
hatred he was thought to have harbored.

Hope that helps . . .



Will Dockery wrote:
> paul_maherjr DeleteThis @yahoo.com wrote:
> > Remember that Kerouac was FOR the American soldier, or, for that
> > matter, ANY soldier, entirely empathizing for those drafted into a
> > conflict they did not devise. Most times he was indifferent to the
> > political cause at large.
> >
> > Read Vanity of Duluoz for his insight about the blonde-haired German,
> > putting himself into his enemy's shoes. Kerouac has also written
> > heartfelt prose pieces about Robert Kennedy after his assassination,
> > the dead soldiers upon the battlefield after WWII, and his beaming love
> > for his country that allowed him, his father and his grandfather to
> > prosper and raise families.
> >
> > His little rant in book of Sketches comes from a bitter time in his
> > life when he was trying to get published. Kerouac's emotions sometimes
> > boil over into temporary bitterness that we cannot interpret as his
> > emotions-at-large. After all, we each have our own bad days, don't we?
>
> Well, there was also Kerouac's very unfortunate feelings of
> Anti-Semitism and homophobia (while often oddly showing a bi-sexual
> bent simultaneously) in the final years... a complicated and tragic
> figure, old Jack was.
>
> --
> "Ozone Stigmata" by Dockery & Conley
> http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
>
> Will Dockery videos:
> http://tinyurl.com/yfmzeq
>
> > pitou wrote:
> > > <elvishasrisen DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1162694919.785935.48110@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > >
> > > > pitou wrote:
> > > >> <elvishasrisen DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > >> news:1162617494.676421.50940@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Kerouac hated that "Beat" became synonymous w/ bongos, sandals, wearing
> > > >> > black turtlenecks, smoking pot etc .. His idea of beat derived from the
> > > >> > word "beatific" and involved spiritual searching, love, ecstasy of the
> > > >> > soul and God..
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Furthermore, the idea that the Beat generation was the precursor to the
> > > >> > hippies really upset Kerouac; the reason being that Kerouac associated
> > > >> > the hippies as being anti-american. Kerouac was extremely patriotic ...
> > > >>
> > > >> But was he? I've yet to be convinced. I've read statements like this
> > > >> many
> > > >> times but no one has been able to show me examples of it in Kerouac's
> > > >> writings. On the contrary, here's Kerouac writing about his country, from
> > > >> his recently published book:
> > > >>
> > > >> "Gad I hate America with a passionate intensity --
> > > >> It aint no atom bomb will blow up America,
> > > >> America itself is a bomb bound to go off from within --
> > > >> What monster lurks there ..."
> > > >>
> > > >> (Jack Kerouac, 1952, Book of Sketches, p.148)
> > > >>
> > > >> You can find similar sentiments expressed in Kerouac's later writings,
> > > >> particularly in Lonesome Traveler and Vanity of Duluoz.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> pitou
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > pitou,
> > > >
> > > > How can you not see On The Road as a glorious celebration of America
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't see On the Road as an overly patriotic work. If you do, let's have
> > > some specific examples.
> > >
> > > > Is not Lowell repeatedly described as the greatest place on earth, with
> > > > a standard that no other locales can measure up to?
> > >
> > > Nostalgic reminiscences of his boyhood there. In later years he called it
> > > "stinktown on the Merrimack" and stayed away.
> > >
> > > > His support of the Vietnam War is documented in writing & tv shows
> > >
> > > The only comment of his on TV that I'm aware of blames the Vietnamese for
> > > starting the war to get American Jeeps into the country.
> > >
> > > > Kerouac carefully folding up the flag that he felt Kesey was
> > > > desecrating seems well documented.
> > >
> > > Third-hand accounts. The photographs of the occasion I've seen show Jack
> > > with the flag around his neck, smiling. He doesn't seem upset.
> > >
> > > > To me, his entire work seems to be a celebration of America - its
> > > > landscapes, it's music, its freedom & its people.
> > >
> > > OK, but where's the extreme patriotism? I don't see it. I've given you "Gad
> > > I hate America with a passionate intensity" as a counter-example to this
> > > claim, and could provide many others. How about some direct quotes that
> > > prove your statement that "Kerouac was extremely patriotic" then maybe we
> > > can take the discussion further?
> > >
> > > But, having read most of Kerouac's writings it appears to me that he was not
> > > even especially enamoured with the concept of patriotism:
> > >
> > > "Politics, gambling, hard work, drinking, patriotism, protest,
> > > pooh-poohings, all therapeutic shifts against the black void." (After Me,
> > > the Deluge - 1969)
> > >
> > > "When a country is in confusion and discord, ideas of loyalty and patriotism
> > > arise." (On the Road Back - 1958)
> > >
> > >
> > > pitou
 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"? 

Is it really all this complicated? If you apply Ockham's razor, you
will trim away most of the faux-mystery with a picture of a bashful
small-town French-Canadian kid with a gift for spinning English who
took to drink to help him deal with notoriety. I don't think I've ever
seen a portrait of the morbidly shy to match his early appearance with
Steve Allen.

I don't see patriotism, although a rich Irish kid he'd find in the
neighborhood around Columbia infused him with a virulent
anti-communism. But - he was born into the very vortex in which one of
the Boston Brahmins wove industrial America through river-driven
sweatshops for farm girls, Ginsberg's queer shoulder to the wheel of
the Great Machine, and he never even mentioned it. His time in Big Sur
was spent in the narrow canyon which was the setting for Robinson
Jeffer's great poem Thurso's Landing and he apparently didn't know that
either. His idea of America was strictly self-referential, as near as
I can tell, but then he said himself he was a wordslinger, not an idea
man. It's just that the static cling of passing time will ever attempt
to attach passing phantasmagoria to his shuddering bulk and suffering
ecstasies.
 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"? 

paul_maherjr wrote:
>
> Ask the very Jewish David Amram or Joyce Johnson if THEY felt Kerouac
> being anti-Semitic toward them. Kerouac was more bothered by Ginsberg's
> politics than his Jewishness . . . or Norman Mailer and numerous
> others that Kerouac aligned his artistry with.
>
> Kerouac was obsessed with his notion of a "Jewish mafia" than a
> negative bent toward their religious beliefs. Jewish book critics and
> publishers,typically but not exclusively, a part of the Manhattan
> intellegentsia, got on the nerves of the cash-strapped 1960s Kerouac.
> This doesn't forgive his expletive-ridden tirades when drunk (like
> Gibson I suppose),

I'm reminded of Kristofferson's lines:

"He's a walking contradiction, partly truth and partly fiction..."

I suppose I'm thinking more of his mother's Anti-Semitism, and his
unwillingness to speak up against it when she drove friends like
Ginsberg from the house.

> but it was in no way fueled from a subconscious
> hatred he was thought to have harbored.
>
> Hope that helps . . .

> > > Remember that Kerouac was FOR the American soldier, or, for that
> > > matter, ANY soldier, entirely empathizing for those drafted into a
> > > conflict they did not devise. Most times he was indifferent to the
> > > political cause at large.
> > >
> > > Read Vanity of Duluoz for his insight about the blonde-haired German,
> > > putting himself into his enemy's shoes. Kerouac has also written
> > > heartfelt prose pieces about Robert Kennedy after his assassination,
> > > the dead soldiers upon the battlefield after WWII, and his beaming love
> > > for his country that allowed him, his father and his grandfather to
> > > prosper and raise families.
> > >
> > > His little rant in book of Sketches comes from a bitter time in his
> > > life when he was trying to get published. Kerouac's emotions sometimes
> > > boil over into temporary bitterness that we cannot interpret as his
> > > emotions-at-large. After all, we each have our own bad days, don't we?
> >
> > Well, there was also Kerouac's very unfortunate feelings of
> > Anti-Semitism and homophobia (while often oddly showing a bi-sexual
> > bent simultaneously) in the final years... a complicated and tragic
> > figure, old Jack was.

> > > > >> > Kerouac hated that "Beat" became synonymous w/ bongos, sandals, wearing
> > > > >> > black turtlenecks, smoking pot etc .. His idea of beat derived from the
> > > > >> > word "beatific" and involved spiritual searching, love, ecstasy of the
> > > > >> > soul and God..
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Furthermore, the idea that the Beat generation was the precursor to the
> > > > >> > hippies really upset Kerouac; the reason being that Kerouac associated
> > > > >> > the hippies as being anti-american. Kerouac was extremely patriotic ...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> But was he? I've yet to be convinced. I've read statements like this
> > > > >> many
> > > > >> times but no one has been able to show me examples of it in Kerouac's
> > > > >> writings. On the contrary, here's Kerouac writing about his country, from
> > > > >> his recently published book:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Gad I hate America with a passionate intensity --
> > > > >> It aint no atom bomb will blow up America,
> > > > >> America itself is a bomb bound to go off from within --
> > > > >> What monster lurks there ..."
> > > > >>
> > > > >> (Jack Kerouac, 1952, Book of Sketches, p.148)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> You can find similar sentiments expressed in Kerouac's later writings,
> > > > >> particularly in Lonesome Traveler and Vanity of Duluoz.
> > > > >
> > > > > How can you not see On The Road as a glorious celebration of America
> > > >
> > > > I don't see On the Road as an overly patriotic work. If you do, let's have
> > > > some specific examples.
> > > >
> > > > > Is not Lowell repeatedly described as the greatest place on earth, with
> > > > > a standard that no other locales can measure up to?
> > > >
> > > > Nostalgic reminiscences of his boyhood there. In later years he called it
> > > > "stinktown on the Merrimack" and stayed away.
> > > >
> > > > > His support of the Vietnam War is documented in writing & tv shows
> > > >
> > > > The only comment of his on TV that I'm aware of blames the Vietnamese for
> > > > starting the war to get American Jeeps into the country.
> > > >
> > > > > Kerouac carefully folding up the flag that he felt Kesey was
> > > > > desecrating seems well documented.
> > > >
> > > > Third-hand accounts. The photographs of the occasion I've seen show Jack
> > > > with the flag around his neck, smiling. He doesn't seem upset.
> > > >
> > > > > To me, his entire work seems to be a celebration of America - its
> > > > > landscapes, it's music, its freedom & its people.
> > > >
> > > > OK, but where's the extreme patriotism? I don't see it. I've given you "Gad
> > > > I hate America with a passionate intensity" as a counter-example to this
> > > > claim, and could provide many others. How about some direct quotes that
> > > > prove your statement that "Kerouac was extremely patriotic" then maybe we
> > > > can take the discussion further?
> > > >
> > > > But, having read most of Kerouac's writings it appears to me that he was not
> > > > even especially enamoured with the concept of patriotism:
> > > >
> > > > "Politics, gambling, hard work, drinking, patriotism, protest,
> > > > pooh-poohings, all therapeutic shifts against the black void." (After Me,
> > > > the Deluge - 1969)
> > > >
> > > > "When a country is in confusion and discord, ideas of loyalty and patriotism
> > > > arise." (On the Road Back - 1958)

--
"Ozone Stigmata" by Dockery & Conley
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

Will Dockery videos:
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 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"? 

It should also be remembered that Kerouac was a fully fledged alcoholic
for the last 10 years of his life. He would get up every morning, and
first thing reach for a drink. He was drunk pretty much all the time
for the last few years, and as anyone who drinks a lot knows, it brings
out the contrary in one, to say the least. He was certainly a
complicated individual, but one facet of his personality was a
non-conformist streak a mile wide. A lot of his vitriol, I think, can
be put down to being drunk, and his natural tendency to kick against
the pricks. What was non-conformism in the 50´s had become conformism
amongst large parts of American youth by the 60´s. Kerouac felt
ambivalent about this, particularly as he kept being informed that he
was partly responsible. Look at all the times he moved house in his
last few years, largely due to damaged individuals getting his address
and then bothering him at all times of the day and night, looking for
"kicks" with "the king of the beats". He goes so far as to describe
some young acolytes who turned up at his house with "Dharma Bums"
written on their jackets as "pathetic" in Big Sur. The Kerouac who did
all those things in his late 20´s was not the same man in his late
40´s - but which of us is? Would you like half the things you thought
20 years ago to be held up to the public now?
 >> Stay informed about: Kerouac disowning "beat generation"?