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Legalized Pickpocketing

 
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Aidan Karley

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Since: Sep 10, 2007
Posts: 29



(Msg. 76) Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Legalized Pickpocketing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>larry-niven (more info?)

In article <xtOdnYfLzf-RpOLanZ2dnUVZ_uninZ2d RemoveThis @speakeasy.net>, Erik Max
Francis wrote:
> > While NLarry was clearly writing from a US perspective,
>
> Suggesting that in his Known Space stories the idea of the UN he was
> positing as apparently serious and reasonable, and calling it "a US
> perspective," is pretty patently laughable.
>
You seem to be missing a phrase there, Erik. Care to try making
your point again?

NLarry is an American, and was at the time of starting Known
Space ; the Earth-end of almost all of his stories takes place in
America (exceptions : brief excursions to "Outback Field in Australia",
and Louis Wu's jaunt from Resht to Beirut to Buda (or was it Pesht?) to
Munchen to ... somewhere else at the start of Ringworld ; other
examples please?) and more specifically California with occasional
offshoots to the Rockies and Kansas. NLarry lives in California, I
think he grew up there and spent most of his university career there,
with a brief sojourn in ... Kansas. So I deduce that he has spent some
holidays in the Rockies, and perhaps in Australia.
He writes about an area and a society that he knows, and frames
his story as deviations from that "norm". Nothing wrong with that, but
his "comfort zone is very obvious in his writing. Indeed, the whole MKW
series is a consequence of NLarry being well aware of the perils of
leaving what you're familiar with.

As a minor ObNiven - can anyone think of a Known Space (or any
other NLarry) story set in, or making significant reference to,
anywhere in the Appalachian mountains or east of there?

--
Aidan Karley,
Written at Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:00 GMT, but posted later.
"Please turn your monitors off when you leave the building. Not only
does it save power, but the flickering of the monitors annoys the
pterosaur."

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Jasper Janssen

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Since: Sep 22, 2007
Posts: 2



(Msg. 77) Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Legalized Pickpocketing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>sf>written, others (more info?)

On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:40:46 -0800, Erik Max Francis <max.TakeThisOut@alcyone.com>
wrote:
>Tim Bruening wrote:
>
>> Erik Max Francis wrote:
>>
>>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>>>
>>>> Voters on Earth had voted to make more and more crimes subject to the death
>>>> penalty, such as jaywalking and false advertising.
>>> And on that subject, nice to see that they don't have a judicial check
>>> and balance in their system.
>>
>> In "A Gift From Earth", Mount Lookathat leader Millard Parlette mentions that the
>> police on Earth have to obtain search warrents before they can conduct a search.
>
>I was referring to a supreme judicial check. Meaning, a Supreme Court
>that could strike down such absurd laws pursuant so some remotely
>reasonable constitution which outlawed things like cruel, unusual, or
>excessive punishment. The death penalty for jaywalking certainly qualifies.

But if they did that, then the Supremes wouldn't get their replacement
organs and might die.

Jasper

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jdnicoll

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Since: May 24, 2004
Posts: 42



(Msg. 78) Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Legalized Pickpocketing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>books>larry-niven (more info?)

In article <xtOdnYfLzf-RpOLanZ2dnUVZ_uninZ2d.DeleteThis@speakeasy.net>,
Erik Max Francis <max.DeleteThis@alcyone.com> wrote:
>Aidan Karley wrote:
>
>> While NLarry was clearly writing from a US perspective,
>
>Suggesting that in his Known Space stories the idea of the UN he was
>positing as apparently serious and reasonable, and calling it "a US
>perspective," is pretty patently laughable.
>
Exactly. Niven was writing from a _Californian_ perspective.

Look at the set-up for the US in KS: it has sacrificed its
independence but it has a tremendous amount of influence on the
culture of the greater state to which it belongs. A cynic might
say "Well, maybe he just can't imagine a society all that much
different from S. Cali's. I mean, oppressed peons having cocktail
parties?" to which I say "Bah! It's all a cunning allegory about
how being part of the US has been good for California and how having
California as part of the US as has been good for the US."
--
http://www.livejournal.com/users/james_nicoll
http://www.cafepress.com/jdnicoll (For all your "The problem with
defending the English language [...]" T-shirt, cup and tote-bag needs)
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tsbrueni

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Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 812



(Msg. 79) Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:30 am
Post subject: Re: Legalized Pickpocketing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>sf>written, others (more info?)

Tim Bruening wrote:

> Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
>> Tim Bruening wrote:
>>
>>> Voters on Earth had voted to make more and more crimes subject to the death
>>> penalty, such as jaywalking and false advertising.
>> And on that subject, nice to see that they don't have a judicial check
>> and balance in their system.
>
> In "A Gift From Earth", Mount Lookathat leader Millard Parlette mentions that the
> police on Earth have to obtain search warrents before they can conduct a search.

On the other hand, the members of the ARMs don't need search warrents.
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norrin

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Since: Dec 29, 2007
Posts: 22



(Msg. 80) Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:50 am
Post subject: Re: Legalized Pickpocketing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>sf>written, others (more info?)

On Jan 6, 4:30 am, Tim Bruening <tsbru... DeleteThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> Tim Bruening wrote:
> > Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
> >> Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> >>> Voters on Earth had voted to make more and more crimes subject to the death
> >>> penalty, such as jaywalking and false advertising.
> >> And on that subject, nice to see that they don't have a judicial check
> >> and balance in their system.
>
> > In "A Gift From Earth", Mount Lookathat leader Millard Parlette mentions that the
> > police on Earth have to obtain search warrents before they can conduct a search.
>
> On the other hand, the members of the ARMs don't need search warrents.

Defensive technology is more advanced in Known Space.
Humans can't build General Products hulls but they could
buy them. They can study them and study stasis fields.
The defenses are good and someday someone will invent
the perfect defense, which is why ARM investigates inventors.

Known Space is a harsh realm, where violent acts will
remove you from the population. On Earth, rich people and
corporations can expect privacy as long as they don't
steal corpses or invent. Psychic technology is rare and new
in humans and hated by aliens.

As psychic ability becomes more common, humans will
gain even better defenses, and they will work whether
people want it or not. If humans had an urge to conquer,
they could become the next Slavers or Eddorians.
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tsbrueni

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Since: Sep 04, 2006
Posts: 11



(Msg. 81) Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:47 am
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Archived from groups: rec>arts>sf>written, others (more info?)

Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Tim Bruening wrote:
>
> > How do I contact Larry Niven to ask him to explain the history of how
> > pickpocketing became legal on Earth?
>
> You don't, if you're going to take seven years to actually finish the
> conversation.

If I promise to finish my conversation with Larry Niven within say a
month, will you
give me his email address?
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tsbrueni

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Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 812



(Msg. 82) Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:58 am
Post subject: Re: Legalized Pickpocketing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>arts>sf>written, others (more info?)

Aidan Karley wrote:
> In article <47750896.F29665B0 DeleteThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening wrote:
> > If you can't enforce pickpocketing due to the overcrowding, how do you enforce
> > gun control laws?
> >
> Introduce (and ruthlessly enforce) the death penalty for sale of guns ;
> add a rider for "death after a year of public torture by intelligent,
> psychopathic, morticians with excellent medical facilities to ensure that you
> *do* spend that year in incredible agony. In front of your family and friends"
> for possession of (any) ammunition or ammunition paraphernalia.
> A few years of seeing people screaming in cages on street corners would
> probably reduce the number of people willing to sell ammunition. Without
> ammunition, guns are rather clumsy clubs.
>
> While NLarry was clearly writing from a US perspective, he's talking
> about a global society. So it's a safe bet that the US's insane preoccupation
> with guns will have been dealt with during the absorbtion of the US into the
> Rest of The World.
> I was talking with the wife a couple of days ago and pointed out that the
> *difference* between the populations of India and China is comparable to the
> population of the United States. So on any even vaguely equitable settlement,
> the US is going to have to learn to adapt to the norms of other people.
> Shall I get my heretic's asbestos underwear on again?

So India and China would storm into the U.S. in black helicopters and
would
FORCE the U.S. to adopt a Universal Health Care system, strict gun
control
laws, proportional representation in its legislature, and the metric
system,
claiming that they are doing it in the name of "regime change"?SmileSmile
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max

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Since: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 168



(Msg. 83) Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:20 am
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Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

tsbrueni.TakeThisOut@dcn.davis.ca.us wrote:

> If I promise to finish my conversation with Larry Niven within say a
> month, will you
> give me his email address?

No. That would be cruel to Mr. Niven.

--
Erik Max Francis && max.TakeThisOut@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM, Y!M erikmaxfrancis
Don't overestimate the decency of the human race.
-- H.L. Mencken
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tsbrueni

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Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 812



(Msg. 84) Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:51 am
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Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Erik Max Francis wrote:

> tsbrueni.TakeThisOut@dcn.davis.ca.us wrote:
>
> > If I promise to finish my conversation with Larry Niven within say a
> > month, will you
> > give me his email address?
>
> No. That would be cruel to Mr. Niven.

Could you ask him for me?
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Aidan Karley

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Since: Sep 10, 2007
Posts: 29



(Msg. 85) Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:18 am
Post subject: Re: Legalized Pickpocketing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <47849AC6.9735AE7F RemoveThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening wrote:
> So India and China would storm into the U.S. in black helicopters and
> would
> FORCE the U.S. to adopt a Universal Health Care system, strict gun
> control
> laws, proportional representation in its legislature, and the metric
> system,
> claiming that they are doing it in the name of "regime change"?SmileSmile
>
I'd like to think not, as they've both been civilised countries
for a millennium or more than Western Europe (which America is a
phylogenetic offshoot form). But I do fear that they may have taken up
some habits and attitudes from their treatment in the Opium Wars, the
aftermath of the Sepoy Rebellion, and more recent history.
Thne again, since it would be to the ultimate benefit of the
invadee (just like Eye-rack), so as civilised countries they could use
the same argument from ultimate benefit.

How did the Star Trek Song put it? "We come in peace. Shoot to
kill."

--
Aidan Karley,
Written at Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:44 GMT, but posted later.
"Please turn your monitors off when you leave the building. Not only
does it save power, but the flickering of the monitors annoys the
pterosaur."
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tsbrueni

External


Since: Dec 06, 2003
Posts: 812



(Msg. 86) Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:47 am
Post subject: Re: Legalized Pickpocketing [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Aidan Karley wrote:

> In article <47849AC6.9735AE7F.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening wrote:
> > So India and China would storm into the U.S. in black helicopters and
> > would
> > FORCE the U.S. to adopt a Universal Health Care system, strict gun
> > control
> > laws, proportional representation in its legislature, and the metric
> > system,
> > claiming that they are doing it in the name of "regime change"?SmileSmile
> >
> I'd like to think not, as they've both been civilised countries
> for a millennium or more than Western Europe (which America is a
> phylogenetic offshoot form). But I do fear that they may have taken up
> some habits and attitudes from their treatment in the Opium Wars, the
> aftermath of the Sepoy Rebellion, and more recent history.
> Thne again, since it would be to the ultimate benefit of the
> invadee (just like Eye-rack), so as civilised countries they could use
> the same argument from ultimate benefit.
>
> How did the Star Trek Song put it? "We come in peace. Shoot to
> kill."

Or might we be invaded by the pickpocketer's union, explaining the
mysterious legalization of pickpocketing in the Known Space series?
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