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ohthosevilebod

External


Since: Jan 07, 2004
Posts: 390



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:43 am
Post subject: The Living Haunt The Dead
Archived from groups: alt>books>ghost-fiction, others (more info?)

One of the lots in a forthcoming Christies auction is the 'lost' four
voume autograph manuscript of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's first novel.
The description informs us:

"Conan Doyle was to confess in later years that 'my shock at its
disappearance would be as nothing to my horror if it were suddenly to
appear again -- in print'."

No doubt the poor man's views will - just as with 'The Ghost Of
Goresthorpe Grange' - be shamefully disregarded by those avaricious
few who cloak their greed in the equally shameful robe of feigned
scholariness. Publishing something that the author did not want
published is wrong: it is akin to digging up the poor man's bones and
putting them on display in a circus.

If I were a millionaire, I would buy the book and burn it. This isn't
comparable with Kafka's 'the Trial' (which was published posthumously
against his wishes): it is a very early and very amateur piece, and
Doyle had decades to reflect upon the qulaity of the piece. Besides,
the decision to publish Kafka's masterpiece was made by a close and
trusted friend who knew him well, but I can see that the inevitable
decision to publish the Doyle novel will be made by someone as distant
from the author asit is possible to be.

Chris Barker
The Haunted River
www.hauntedriver.co.uk

PS. Interestingly there is also a letter dated 1909 "from the 'sole
surviving witness of the burial of Edgar Allen Poe', who describes the
occasion (suitably enough) as 'cold blooded & unchristianlike'."

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burlveneer1

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Since: Sep 26, 2003
Posts: 12



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 1:07 pm
Post subject: Re: The Living Haunt The Dead [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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OhThoseVileBodies.DeleteThis@hotmail.com (Haunted River) wrote in message news:<8aeb84d7.0405130143.515abf4d.DeleteThis@posting.google.com>...
 > No doubt the poor man's views will - just as with 'The Ghost Of
 > Goresthorpe Grange' - be shamefully disregarded by those avaricious
 > few who cloak their greed in the equally shameful robe of feigned
 > scholariness. Publishing something that the author did not want
 > published is wrong: it is akin to digging up the poor man's bones and
 > putting them on display in a circus.


I very much doubt that M.R. James wanted an article published accusing
him of plagiarism and pederasty, yet there it is.

Bill B.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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user387

External


Since: Dec 13, 2003
Posts: 80



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 6:40 pm
Post subject: Re: The Living Haunt The Dead [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

OhThoseVileBodies.RemoveThis@hotmail.com (Haunted River) wrote in message news:<8aeb84d7.0405130143.515abf4d.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>...
 > One of the lots in a forthcoming Christies auction is the 'lost' four
 > voume autograph manuscript of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's first novel.
 > The description informs us:
 >
 > "Conan Doyle was to confess in later years that 'my shock at its
 > disappearance would be as nothing to my horror if it were suddenly to
 > appear again -- in print'."
 >
 > No doubt the poor man's views will - just as with 'The Ghost Of
 > Goresthorpe Grange' - be shamefully disregarded by those avaricious
 > few who cloak their greed in the equally shameful robe of feigned
 > scholariness. Publishing something that the author did not want
 > published is wrong: it is akin to digging up the poor man's bones and
 > putting them on display in a circus.

On the other hand, an artist is not necessarily the most objective
judge of his or her work. While I would certainly respect the wishes
of the dead, I think that supressing or destroying "inferior" work is
a historical and critical loss in terms of being able to study an
artist's development in the largest possible context of his or her
work.

Gina Harader
 >
 > If I were a millionaire, I would buy the book and burn it. This isn't
 > comparable with Kafka's 'the Trial' (which was published posthumously
 > against his wishes): it is a very early and very amateur piece, and
 > Doyle had decades to reflect upon the qulaity of the piece. Besides,
 > the decision to publish Kafka's masterpiece was made by a close and
 > trusted friend who knew him well, but I can see that the inevitable
 > decision to publish the Doyle novel will be made by someone as distant
 > from the author asit is possible to be.
 >
 > Chris Barker
 > The Haunted River
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.hauntedriver.co.uk</font" target="_blank">www.hauntedriver.co.uk</font</a>>
 >
 > PS. Interestingly there is also a letter dated 1909 "from the 'sole
 > surviving witness of the burial of Edgar Allen Poe', who describes the
 > occasion (suitably enough) as 'cold blooded & unchristianlike'."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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user387

External


Since: Dec 13, 2003
Posts: 80



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 6:40 pm
Post subject: Re: The Living Haunt The Dead [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

OhThoseVileBodies.RemoveThis@hotmail.com (Haunted River) wrote in message news:<8aeb84d7.0405130143.515abf4d.RemoveThis@posting.google.com>...
 > One of the lots in a forthcoming Christies auction is the 'lost' four
 > voume autograph manuscript of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's first novel.
 > The description informs us:
 >
 > "Conan Doyle was to confess in later years that 'my shock at its
 > disappearance would be as nothing to my horror if it were suddenly to
 > appear again -- in print'."
 >
 > No doubt the poor man's views will - just as with 'The Ghost Of
 > Goresthorpe Grange' - be shamefully disregarded by those avaricious
 > few who cloak their greed in the equally shameful robe of feigned
 > scholariness. Publishing something that the author did not want
 > published is wrong: it is akin to digging up the poor man's bones and
 > putting them on display in a circus.

On the other hand, an artist is not necessarily the most objective
judge of his or her work. While I would certainly respect the wishes
of the dead, I think that supressing or destroying "inferior" work is
a historical and critical loss in terms of being able to study an
artist's development in the largest possible context of his or her
work.

Gina Harader
 >
 > If I were a millionaire, I would buy the book and burn it. This isn't
 > comparable with Kafka's 'the Trial' (which was published posthumously
 > against his wishes): it is a very early and very amateur piece, and
 > Doyle had decades to reflect upon the qulaity of the piece. Besides,
 > the decision to publish Kafka's masterpiece was made by a close and
 > trusted friend who knew him well, but I can see that the inevitable
 > decision to publish the Doyle novel will be made by someone as distant
 > from the author asit is possible to be.
 >
 > Chris Barker
 > The Haunted River
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.hauntedriver.co.uk</font" target="_blank">www.hauntedriver.co.uk</font</a>>
 >
 > PS. Interestingly there is also a letter dated 1909 "from the 'sole
 > surviving witness of the burial of Edgar Allen Poe', who describes the
 > occasion (suitably enough) as 'cold blooded & unchristianlike'."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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ohthosevilebod

External


Since: Jan 07, 2004
Posts: 390



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 6:48 pm
Post subject: Re: The Living Haunt The Dead [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

burlveneer.TakeThisOut@mailinator.com (Burl Veneer) wrote in message news:<f006f665.0405130907.44dc6e18.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>...
 > OhThoseVileBodies.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com (Haunted River) wrote in message news:<8aeb84d7.0405130143.515abf4d.TakeThisOut@posting.google.com>...
  > > No doubt the poor man's views will - just as with 'The Ghost Of
  > > Goresthorpe Grange' - be shamefully disregarded by those avaricious
  > > few who cloak their greed in the equally shameful robe of feigned
  > > scholariness. Publishing something that the author did not want
  > > published is wrong: it is akin to digging up the poor man's bones and
  > > putting them on display in a circus.
 >
 >
 > I very much doubt that M.R. James wanted an article published accusing
 > him of plagiarism and pederasty, yet there it is.
 >
 > Bill B.

That's a different issue entirely and I suspect you know it.

Chris<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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lawrence

External


Since: May 13, 2004
Posts: 57



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 12:05 am
Post subject: Re: The Living Haunt The Dead [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

In article <8aeb84d7.0405131448.1d386ce6 RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
OhThoseVileBodies RemoveThis @hotmail.com (Haunted River) wrote:

  > > I very much doubt that M.R. James wanted an article published accusing
  > > him of plagiarism and pederasty, yet there it is.
  > >
  > > Bill B.
 >
 > That's a different issue entirely and I suspect you know it.
 >
Silly toad.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bad_Mr_Toad/" target="_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bad_Mr_Toad/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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camembert

External


Since: Aug 10, 2003
Posts: 144



(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:34 am
Post subject: Re: The Living Haunt The Dead [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

 > Publishing something that the author did not want
 > published is wrong: it is akin to digging up the poor man's bones and
 > putting them on display in a circus.

This is an interesting remark. And in principle I agree. However, being
very interested in the next few artists (as an example), greedy Tom
would still love to see their "hidden" work:

- Kubrick's first movie "Fear and desire" (I believe that's the title)
which he tried to hide from the world afterwards. Yes it will be
amateuristic in a low budget way but I would still love to see work of
the beginning artist
- unpublished Salinger - there are quite a few stories which appeared in
The New Yorker that were never collected. Possibly including other
stories with the Franny & Zoe family of characters. It wouldn't surprise
if you look in the murkiest corners of the net then maybe you might be
able to find illegal scans of these texts. As it is now, I'll have to
wait until he's dead. And to think that he has a few other novels in his
safe, I just hope he never burned them.
- any unpublished R.R. Ryan? By now we suspect that Ryan was a man who
also wrote under another pseudonym but that's about it.
- in general you might also wonder if published letters of a dead writer
are so ethical. Those are personal. But if Nabokov's letters were never
published, we would never be able to read to following gem: in response
to an editor who invited writers to write for (say) $1000 a 5000 word
essay on (I think I remember more or less correctly) "Are artists
responsible any bad influence that their work might have on the
public?", Nabokov answered: "No. I get 20 cent from you, sir."

So yes it's an interesting question. I tend to think that if a writer
really doesn't want a manuscript ever to see print; (s)he should burn
it/ erase it from the hard disk.

ciao, Tom<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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wmeeks

External


Since: Jan 31, 2004
Posts: 57



(Msg. 8) Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:56 am
Post subject: Re: The Living Haunt The Dead [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On yet another hand, famous people, authors included, are of interest to the
general public as well as to specialists.

What was embarrassing to the writer when he was still around may well now
provide useful insights to his development and mature work. Despite Doyle's
belief in the occult, it is unlikely that he is in a position to care about
or object to this.

Bill
"Haunted River" <OhThoseVileBodies.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8aeb84d7.0405130143.515abf4d@posting.google.com...
 > One of the lots in a forthcoming Christies auction is the 'lost' four
 > voume autograph manuscript of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's first novel.
 > The description informs us:
 >
 > "Conan Doyle was to confess in later years that 'my shock at its
 > disappearance would be as nothing to my horror if it were suddenly to
 > appear again -- in print'."
 >
 > No doubt the poor man's views will - just as with 'The Ghost Of
 > Goresthorpe Grange' - be shamefully disregarded by those avaricious
 > few who cloak their greed in the equally shameful robe of feigned
 > scholariness. Publishing something that the author did not want
 > published is wrong: it is akin to digging up the poor man's bones and
 > putting them on display in a circus.
 >
 > If I were a millionaire, I would buy the book and burn it. This isn't
 > comparable with Kafka's 'the Trial' (which was published posthumously
 > against his wishes): it is a very early and very amateur piece, and
 > Doyle had decades to reflect upon the qulaity of the piece. Besides,
 > the decision to publish Kafka's masterpiece was made by a close and
 > trusted friend who knew him well, but I can see that the inevitable
 > decision to publish the Doyle novel will be made by someone as distant
 > from the author asit is possible to be.
 >
 > Chris Barker
 > The Haunted River
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.hauntedriver.co.uk</font" target="_blank">www.hauntedriver.co.uk</font</a>>
 >
 > PS. Interestingly there is also a letter dated 1909 "from the 'sole
 > surviving witness of the burial of Edgar Allen Poe', who describes the
 > occasion (suitably enough) as 'cold blooded & unchristianlike'."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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ramsey

External


Since: Oct 07, 2003
Posts: 50



(Msg. 9) Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 7:37 am
Post subject: Re: The Living Haunt The Dead [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Tom Alaerts <camembert.RemoveThis@eudoramail.com> wrote in message news:<40A3E9FA.2020906.RemoveThis@eudoramail.com>...
  > > Publishing something that the author did not want
  > > published is wrong: it is akin to digging up the poor man's bones and
  > > putting them on display in a circus.
 >
 > This is an interesting remark. And in principle I agree. However, being
 > very interested in the next few artists (as an example), greedy Tom
 > would still love to see their "hidden" work:
 >
 > - Kubrick's first movie "Fear and desire" (I believe that's the title)
 > which he tried to hide from the world afterwards. Yes it will be
 > amateuristic in a low budget way but I would still love to see work of
 > the beginning artist

Apparently the Library of Congress and George Eastman House have
copies, so perhaps we'll get to see it. I share your eagerness to do
so. Kubrick's wishes still keep being invoked by distributors, though.
Warner did so when I asked why only the shortened version of THE
SHINING (cut to make room for a further daily showing when the film
was released theatrically in Britain) was made available on Region 2
DVD. The irony is that (as I understand it) the full-length version
that was shown several times on British television was lent to the
network by Kubrick himself.

Ramsey Campbell<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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ohthosevilebod

External


Since: Jan 07, 2004
Posts: 390



(Msg. 10) Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 11:37 am
Post subject: The wind in the willows cries softly to me.... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Lawrence Person <lawrence RemoveThis @io.com> wrote in message news:<lawrence-ABD780.21053513052004 RemoveThis @news-central.dca.giganews.com>...
 > In article <8aeb84d7.0405131448.1d386ce6 RemoveThis @posting.google.com>,
 > OhThoseVileBodies RemoveThis @hotmail.com (Haunted River) wrote:
 >
   > > > I very much doubt that M.R. James wanted an article published accusing
   > > > him of plagiarism and pederasty, yet there it is.
   > > >
   > > > Bill B.
  > >
  > > That's a different issue entirely and I suspect you know it.
  > >
 > Silly toad.
 >
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bad_Mr_Toad/</font" target="_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bad_Mr_Toad/</font</a>>


You are the silly toad, Mr "Person".

Bad Mr Toad is nothing more than a prison where those sad few who wish
to obsess about extreme and unreasonable views in private have to go
to, because they would be ridiculed for expressing those same abusive
views in decent public society.

So are the National Front driven undercover to discuss their racist
and depraved views; so were the Ku-Klax-Klan compelled to meet in
secret. Bad Mr Toad is directly comparable to these groups.
Superfically the glue of shared hatred is what binds the cabal but it
doesn't take a genius to intuit what *really* motivates people such as
yourself, does it?

Now, if you seriously do want an interesting "Wind In The Willows"
link - which I am quite sure that you don't - you could do a lot worse
than try the one below. But be warned, the author of the piece
analyses the prose in an inquisitive adventurious manner, which will
no doubt lead to many members of this forum to doff blinkers and
earmuffs whilst pouring scorn upon the author for daring to make use
of their speculative faculties.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.wpl.lib.in.us/roger/WIND.HTML" target="_blank">http://www.wpl.lib.in.us/roger/WIND.HTML</a>

Sigh.....if only the John Pelan's, Chris Roden's and Robert Lee's of
this world could compose such thoughtful and entertaining essays.
Instead of which they give us "F**k you w***er!" litanies and links to
images of dog excrement.

Chris Barker
The Haunted River
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.hauntedriver.co.uk" target="_blank">www.hauntedriver.co.uk</a>

"Oh whistle and I'll come to you"<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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nospam27

External


Since: May 14, 2004
Posts: 212



(Msg. 11) Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: The Living Haunt The Dead [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"gina harader" <v.harader.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:

 > While I would certainly respect the wishes of the dead,

How does one ascertain the wishes of the dead?
Seance? Ouija board?
--
Bob Finnan
The Hardy Boys Unofficial Home Page
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.arczip.com/fwdixon" target="_blank">http://users.arczip.com/fwdixon</a>
New & Out Of Print Books, Books-On-Tape, Videos, DVDs, CD-ROMs For Sale
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.arczip.com/fwdixon/hbsale.htm" target="_blank">http://users.arczip.com/fwdixon/hbsale.htm</a>
To reply: replace nospam with fwdixon
......................................................................<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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johnastovall

External


Since: Oct 01, 2004
Posts: 252



(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:00 pm
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On Fri, 14 May 2004 11:00:15 -0400, "Hardy-Boys.net"
<nospam.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

 >"gina harader" <v.harader.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
 >
  >> While I would certainly respect the wishes of the dead,
 >
 >How does one ascertain the wishes of the dead?
 >Seance? Ouija board?

You put those wishes in your will.


*****************************************************

"It is a good thing to read books, and need not be a
bad thing to write them, but in any case, it is a
pious thing to collect them."

Fredrick Locker-Lampson
(1821-1895)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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ohthosevilebod

External


Since: Jan 07, 2004
Posts: 390



(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:55 pm
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"Hardy-Boys.net" <nospam DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2gk56qF3rcdgU1 DeleteThis @uni-berlin.de>...
 > "gina harader" <v.harader DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote:
 >
  > > While I would certainly respect the wishes of the dead,
 >
 > How does one ascertain the wishes of the dead?
 > Seance? Ouija board?

In any discussion site *excepting* one devoted to 'ghost fiction' your
observation would appear to be completely reasonable.

However....come in Mr O'Donnell.....what's that you say? All your
accounts of hauntings were fictional? So were Harry Price's? What's
that you say? It was all a big hoax designed to perpetuate a lucrative
career as a ghost-hunter?

Ye gods. The spooks have got us over a barrel.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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nospam27

External


Since: May 14, 2004
Posts: 212



(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 4:54 pm
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"John A. Stovall" <johnastovall.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote
 > You put those wishes in your will.

Presumably while still living.

--
Bob Finnan
The Hardy Boys Unofficial Home Page
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.arczip.com/fwdixon" target="_blank">http://users.arczip.com/fwdixon</a>
New & Out Of Print Books, Books-On-Tape, Videos, DVDs, CD-ROMs For Sale
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.arczip.com/fwdixon/hbsale.htm" target="_blank">http://users.arczip.com/fwdixon/hbsale.htm</a>
To reply: replace nospam with fwdixon
......................................................................<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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mjadams28

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Since: May 14, 2004
Posts: 261



(Msg. 15) Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 7:16 pm
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"Silly-Boys.net" <nospam RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2gk56qF3rcdgU1@uni-berlin.de...
 > "gina harader" <v.harader RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
 >
  > > While I would certainly respect the wishes of the dead,
 >
 > How does one ascertain the wishes of the dead?


Usually by reading their Will.





michael adams<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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