The Magician's Nephew Spoilers

Kay Shapero wrote:

> In article <45FA47F0.CBA5ACE1.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>,
> tsbrueni.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us says...
> >
> > The Magician's Nephew Spoilers:
> >
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> > 0
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> >
> > In this book, two kids named Digory and Polly use magic rings to travel
> > from Earth, to the Wood Between The Worlds, and then to Charn, where
> > Digory foolishly rings a bell that wakes up the evil witch Queen Jadis.
> >
> > In Chapter 5 (The Deplorable Word), page 40 of large paperback, Jadis
> > turns some palace doors into dust. On pages 41-42, Jadis describes how
> > she used a Deplorable Word to kill everyone on her planet but herself,
> > as an absolute last resort. Jadis had refrained from using that Word
> > until rebels led by her sister had annihilated her army and marched up
> > the palace steps. Her rebel sister was right in her face before she
> > uttered the Word! Why didn't Jadis simply use her "dusting" spell to
> > turn her sister and the other rebels into dust? (or perhaps turn the
> > ground underneath the rebels into dust, or make buildings collapse on
> > the rebels).
>
> She was mad at everybody and didn't want to play favorites.
>
> >
> > PP 75-76: Digory's uncle Andrew didn't like the sound of the creation
> > song the lion Aslan was singing, so when he saw that the singer was a
> > lion, he made himself believe that it was just roaring. He therefore
> > made himself incapable of hearing the speech of Aslan or any other
> > Talking Animal as anything but animal noises. No Talking Animal could
> > understand Andrew either! However, if Aslan had gone out of Andrew's
> > sight, assumed the form of an English gentleman, then walked up to
> > Andrew, would Andrew have then been able to understand Aslan? After
> > all, Andrew would be expecting an English gentleman to speak English!
>
> Probably. Now ask yourself why Aslan didn't do that.

Okay, why didn't he do that?

> >
> > Page 96: Digory plants an apple from a magic tree. PP 99-100: The apple
> > has sprouted into a tree that Aslan explains will protect Narnia from
> > Jadis for centuries. Jadis can't get near the tree because its odor is
> > repellent to her (since she had eaten an apple from its parent after
> > having stolen it). Why doesn't Aslan direct the Narnians to (from time
> > to time) plant seeds from the Narnian tree to grow new trees that would
> > continue to protect Narnia when the old tree died, or direct the
> > Narnians to fetch a new apple from the parent tree to the West?
> >
>
> Jadis was ultimately going to have to be dealt with. This was just a
> stopgap to let Narnia grow big enough to survive her.

But why not have new trees be planted to keep Jadis away indefinitely?
 >> Stay informed about: The Magician's Nephew Spoilers 

This is a reply to the following December 30, 2005, post:

"Lots42" <lot....DeleteThis@gmail.com> writes:
> > At this point, there was so much magic, that anything planted would
> > grow and stay. That's why the lamp-post was there in Book 1, cuz in
> > this book, the Queen grabbed a bit from a lamp-post in England before
> > ending up in Narnia.

>No, that is a retcon.

>The lamppost was there in book 1, because Lewis figured it was a
>quaint and fairy taleish thing to have out there.

That's not why the lamppost was there at the end of book 1, The Lion,
the Witch and the Wardrobe. Lewis was symbolizing events from the
Bible's book of Revelation. Revelation is about the future apocalypse
(the horrifying destruction of earthly kingdoms and much of humanity)
and the transfer from heaven to earth of the Kingdom of God. The
apocalypse will begin with the appearance of the Four Horsemen of the
Apocalypse (Rev. 6:1-7). The four siblings who go out on horseback to
hunt for the white stag symbolize Revelation's Four Horsemen of the
Apocalypse.

The Lamb of God, implicitly white (lambs are white, you know), is
featured throughout Revelation. Aslan, who has returned and
transformed himself into the white stag, represents the Lamb of God.

At the end of Revelation, after the earthly kingdoms have been
destroyed and Satan has been thrown into a "lake of fire," the
survivors will witness "the holy city Jerusalem [New Jerusalem] coming
down out of heaven from God" (Rev. 21:10). God will cease to live in
heaven. He will come to earth and rule over man in his new Kingdom of
God on earth, which will replace the old multiple earthly kingdoms and
their human kings. "And the city [will have] no need of sun or moon
to shine upon it, for . . . it's lamp is the Lamb" (Rev.21:23).

The Lamppost in Narnia is the lamp in New Jerusalem. Since the "lamp
is the Lamb," we know that Aslan has now morphed from the white stag
(Lamb symbol) into the lamppost. When the siblings go past the
lamppost and enter the Professor's house, they are entering the
Kingdom of God. Who do you suppose the Professor (a.k.a. Emperor-
beyond-the-Sea), ruler of his house, represents?
 >> Stay informed about: The Magician's Nephew Spoilers 

Otto York wrote:

> This is a reply to the following December 30, 2005, post:
>
> "Lots42" <lot....DeleteThis@gmail.com> writes:
> > > At this point, there was so much magic, that anything planted would
> > > grow and stay. That's why the lamp-post was there in Book 1, cuz in
> > > this book, the Queen grabbed a bit from a lamp-post in England before
> > > ending up in Narnia.
>
> >No, that is a retcon.
>
> >The lamppost was there in book 1, because Lewis figured it was a
> >quaint and fairy taleish thing to have out there.
>
> That's not why the lamppost was there at the end of book 1, The Lion,
> the Witch and the Wardrobe. Lewis was symbolizing events from the
> Bible's book of Revelation. Revelation is about the future apocalypse
> (the horrifying destruction of earthly kingdoms and much of humanity)
> and the transfer from heaven to earth of the Kingdom of God. The
> apocalypse will begin with the appearance of the Four Horsemen of the
> Apocalypse (Rev. 6:1-7). The four siblings who go out on horseback to
> hunt for the white stag symbolize Revelation's Four Horsemen of the
> Apocalypse.

How? They have no intention of destroying anything, and Narnia wasn't
destroyed for several hundred years after the siblings left?

> The Lamb of God, implicitly white (lambs are white, you know), is
> featured throughout Revelation. Aslan, who has returned and
> transformed himself into the white stag, represents the Lamb of God.
>
> At the end of Revelation, after the earthly kingdoms have been
> destroyed and Satan has been thrown into a "lake of fire," the
> survivors will witness "the holy city Jerusalem [New Jerusalem] coming
> down out of heaven from God" (Rev. 21:10). God will cease to live in
> heaven. He will come to earth and rule over man in his new Kingdom of
> God on earth, which will replace the old multiple earthly kingdoms and
> their human kings. "And the city [will have] no need of sun or moon
> to shine upon it, for . . . it's lamp is the Lamb" (Rev.21:23).
>
> The Lamppost in Narnia is the lamp in New Jerusalem. Since the "lamp
> is the Lamb," we know that Aslan has now morphed from the white stag
> (Lamb symbol) into the lamppost. When the siblings go past the
> lamppost and enter the Professor's house, they are entering the
> Kingdom of God. Who do you suppose the Professor (a.k.a. Emperor-
> beyond-the-Sea), ruler of his house, represents?

How can Aslan be the lamppost? In The Magician's Nephew, Jadis threw a piece
of lamppost at Aslan, and it sprouted into the lamppost, with Aslan standing
right beside it.
 >> Stay informed about: The Magician's Nephew Spoilers 

Tim Bruening <tsbrueni.RemoveThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>Kay Shapero wrote:
>> tsbrueni.RemoveThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us says...
>> > PP 75-76: Digory's uncle Andrew didn't like the sound of the creation
>> > song the lion Aslan was singing, so when he saw that the singer was a
>> > lion, he made himself believe that it was just roaring. He therefore
>> > made himself incapable of hearing the speech of Aslan or any other
>> > Talking Animal as anything but animal noises. No Talking Animal could
>> > understand Andrew either! However, if Aslan had gone out of Andrew's
>> > sight, assumed the form of an English gentleman, then walked up to
>> > Andrew, would Andrew have then been able to understand Aslan? After
>> > all, Andrew would be expecting an English gentleman to speak English!
>>
>> Probably. Now ask yourself why Aslan didn't do that.
>
>Okay, why didn't he do that?

....No no. Ask -yourself-, not _us_. Already know the answer do you; extending
the thread trying to are you.

And decide which crossposting set of groups you're going to use once and for
all, there's a good lad.

Dave
 >> Stay informed about: The Magician's Nephew Spoilers 

In article <1174056300.999489.210370.DeleteThis@e1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
goodben.DeleteThis@gmail.com says...
> On Mar 16, 1:30 am, Tim Bruening <tsbru....DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > The Magician's Nephew Spoilers:
> >
> > 1
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> >
> > In Chapter 5 (The Deplorable Word), pages 41-42 of large paperback,
> > Jadis
> > describes how she used a Deplorable Word (which kills everyone but the
> > user)
> > to kill everyone on her planet but herself, as an absolute last resort
> > (as
> > the rebels were about to wipe her out after having killed her entire
> > army).
> > What would happen if two people used the Deplorable Word at the same
> > time?
>
> Mutual Assured Destruction, but perhaps a Cold War if both sides knew
> each other had it.
>
>
Or possibly High Noon... Who speaks first?
--
Kay Shapero
http://www.kayshapero.net
Address munged - to email use kay at the domain of my website, above.
 >> Stay informed about: The Magician's Nephew Spoilers 

In article <45FA47F0.CBA5ACE1 DeleteThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>,
tsbrueni DeleteThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us says...
>
> The Magician's Nephew Spoilers:
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>
> In this book, two kids named Digory and Polly use magic rings to travel
> from Earth, to the Wood Between The Worlds, and then to Charn, where
> Digory foolishly rings a bell that wakes up the evil witch Queen Jadis.
>
> In Chapter 5 (The Deplorable Word), page 40 of large paperback, Jadis
> turns some palace doors into dust. On pages 41-42, Jadis describes how
> she used a Deplorable Word to kill everyone on her planet but herself,
> as an absolute last resort. Jadis had refrained from using that Word
> until rebels led by her sister had annihilated her army and marched up
> the palace steps. Her rebel sister was right in her face before she
> uttered the Word! Why didn't Jadis simply use her "dusting" spell to
> turn her sister and the other rebels into dust? (or perhaps turn the
> ground underneath the rebels into dust, or make buildings collapse on
> the rebels).

She was mad at everybody and didn't want to play favorites.

>
> PP 75-76: Digory's uncle Andrew didn't like the sound of the creation
> song the lion Aslan was singing, so when he saw that the singer was a
> lion, he made himself believe that it was just roaring. He therefore
> made himself incapable of hearing the speech of Aslan or any other
> Talking Animal as anything but animal noises. No Talking Animal could
> understand Andrew either! However, if Aslan had gone out of Andrew's
> sight, assumed the form of an English gentleman, then walked up to
> Andrew, would Andrew have then been able to understand Aslan? After
> all, Andrew would be expecting an English gentleman to speak English!

Probably. Now ask yourself why Aslan didn't do that.

>
> Page 96: Digory plants an apple from a magic tree. PP 99-100: The apple
> has sprouted into a tree that Aslan explains will protect Narnia from
> Jadis for centuries. Jadis can't get near the tree because its odor is
> repellent to her (since she had eaten an apple from its parent after
> having stolen it). Why doesn't Aslan direct the Narnians to (from time
> to time) plant seeds from the Narnian tree to grow new trees that would
> continue to protect Narnia when the old tree died, or direct the
> Narnians to fetch a new apple from the parent tree to the West?
>

Jadis was ultimately going to have to be dealt with. This was just a
stopgap to let Narnia grow big enough to survive her.

--
Kay Shapero
Signature munged - to email me use kay at domain of my website, below.
http://www.kayshapero.net
Filk FAQ at http://www.kayshapero.net/filkfaq.htm
 >> Stay informed about: The Magician's Nephew Spoilers 

On Mar 17, 2:30 am, Tim Bruening <tsbru... RemoveThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> Otto York wrote:
> > This is a reply to the following December 30, 2005, post:
>
> > "Lots42" <lot... RemoveThis @gmail.com> writes:
> > > > At this point, there was so much magic, that anything planted would
> > > > grow and stay. That's why the lamp-post was there in Book 1, cuz in
> > > > this book, the Queen grabbed a bit from a lamp-post in England before
> > > > ending up in Narnia.
>
> > >No, that is a retcon.
>
> > >The lamppost was there in book 1, because Lewis figured it was a
> > >quaint and fairy taleish thing to have out there.
>
> > That's not why the lamppost was there at the end of book 1, The Lion,
> > the Witch and the Wardrobe. Lewis was symbolizing events from the
> > Bible's book of Revelation. Revelation is about the future apocalypse
> > (the horrifying destruction of earthly kingdoms and much of humanity)
> > and the transfer from heaven to earth of the Kingdom of God. The
> > apocalypse will begin with the appearance of the Four Horsemen of the
> > Apocalypse (Rev. 6:1-7). The four siblings who go out on horseback to
> > hunt for the white stag symbolize Revelation's Four Horsemen of the
> > Apocalypse.
>
> How? They have no intention of destroying anything, and Narnia wasn't
> destroyed for several hundred years after the siblings left?
>
>
>
> > The Lamb of God, implicitly white (lambs are white, you know), is
> > featured throughout Revelation. Aslan, who has returned and
> > transformed himself into the white stag, represents the Lamb of God.
>
> > At the end of Revelation, after the earthly kingdoms have been
> > destroyed and Satan has been thrown into a "lake of fire," the
> > survivors will witness "the holy city Jerusalem [New Jerusalem] coming
> > down out of heaven from God" (Rev. 21:10). God will cease to live in
> > heaven. He will come to earth and rule over man in his new Kingdom of
> > God on earth, which will replace the old multiple earthly kingdoms and
> > their human kings. "And the city [will have] no need of sun or moon
> > to shine upon it, for . . . it's lamp is the Lamb" (Rev.21:23).
>
> > The Lamppost in Narnia is the lamp in New Jerusalem. Since the "lamp
> > is the Lamb," we know that Aslan has now morphed from the white stag
> > (Lamb symbol) into the lamppost. When the siblings go past the
> > lamppost and enter the Professor's house, they are entering the
> > Kingdom of God. Who do you suppose the Professor (a.k.a. Emperor-
> > beyond-the-Sea), ruler of his house, represents?
>
> How can Aslan be the lamppost? In The Magician's Nephew, Jadis threw a > piece of lamppost at Aslan, and it sprouted into the lamppost, with Aslan standing right beside it.

There are many contradictions between the first Narnia book, "The
Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe"(1950), and the six later books. For
example, the Professor of the original book does not have a name and
does not closely fit the description of Digory Kirke, who in "The
Magician's Nephew" (the sixth book to be written [1955] but the first
in chronological order) is the Professor when he was a boy. Again,
the apocalypse symbolized at the end of "The Lion, the Witch and the
Wardrobe" is restyled in more, and different, detail in the last
Narnia book,"The Last Battle" (1956); Susan is no longer admitted to
the Kingdom of God.

Ryken and Mead, in "A Reader's Guide Through the Wardrobe," explain
the discrepancies. "Lewis did not anticipate the other six Narnian
stories when he wrote his first volume. As a result, he created this
story as a "stand-alone" narrative, and the development of this first
tale was not written to take into account any subsequent books."

This is why Aslan can morph into the lamppost (Revelation's Lamp in
New Jerusalem) in "The Lion," whereas the lamppost and Aslan stand
side by side in "The Magician's Nephew." Make no mistake, in
Revelation 21: the "lamp is the Lamb." (Here the "lamp" is merely a
metaphorical one, not a literal one.) And the Lamb is Jesus: "the
Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb" will rule in the holy city that
has floated down from heaven. Since Aslan symbolizes Jesus--just
about everybody knows this--Aslan is both the Lamb (the white stag)
and the lamppost.
 >> Stay informed about: The Magician's Nephew Spoilers 

Otto York wrote:

> On Mar 17, 2:30 am, Tim Bruening <tsbru... RemoveThis @pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > Otto York wrote:
> > > This is a reply to the following December 30, 2005, post:
> >
> > > "Lots42" <lot... RemoveThis @gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > At this point, there was so much magic, that anything planted would
> > > > > grow and stay. That's why the lamp-post was there in Book 1, cuz in
> > > > > this book, the Queen grabbed a bit from a lamp-post in England before
> > > > > ending up in Narnia.
> >
> > > >No, that is a retcon.
> >
> > > >The lamppost was there in book 1, because Lewis figured it was a
> > > >quaint and fairy taleish thing to have out there.
> >
> > > That's not why the lamppost was there at the end of book 1, The Lion,
> > > the Witch and the Wardrobe. Lewis was symbolizing events from the
> > > Bible's book of Revelation. Revelation is about the future apocalypse
> > > (the horrifying destruction of earthly kingdoms and much of humanity)
> > > and the transfer from heaven to earth of the Kingdom of God. The
> > > apocalypse will begin with the appearance of the Four Horsemen of the
> > > Apocalypse (Rev. 6:1-7). The four siblings who go out on horseback to
> > > hunt for the white stag symbolize Revelation's Four Horsemen of the
> > > Apocalypse.
> >
> > How? They have no intention of destroying anything, and Narnia wasn't
> > destroyed for several hundred years after the siblings left?
> >
> >
> >
> > > The Lamb of God, implicitly white (lambs are white, you know), is
> > > featured throughout Revelation. Aslan, who has returned and
> > > transformed himself into the white stag, represents the Lamb of God.
> >
> > > At the end of Revelation, after the earthly kingdoms have been
> > > destroyed and Satan has been thrown into a "lake of fire," the
> > > survivors will witness "the holy city Jerusalem [New Jerusalem] coming
> > > down out of heaven from God" (Rev. 21:10). God will cease to live in
> > > heaven. He will come to earth and rule over man in his new Kingdom of
> > > God on earth, which will replace the old multiple earthly kingdoms and
> > > their human kings. "And the city [will have] no need of sun or moon
> > > to shine upon it, for . . . it's lamp is the Lamb" (Rev.21:23).
> >
> > > The Lamppost in Narnia is the lamp in New Jerusalem. Since the "lamp
> > > is the Lamb," we know that Aslan has now morphed from the white stag
> > > (Lamb symbol) into the lamppost. When the siblings go past the
> > > lamppost and enter the Professor's house, they are entering the
> > > Kingdom of God. Who do you suppose the Professor (a.k.a. Emperor-
> > > beyond-the-Sea), ruler of his house, represents?
> >
> > How can Aslan be the lamppost? In The Magician's Nephew, Jadis threw a > piece of lamppost at Aslan, and it sprouted into the lamppost, with Aslan standing right beside it.
>
> There are many contradictions between the first Narnia book, "The
> Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe"(1950), and the six later books. For
> example, the Professor of the original book does not have a name and
> does not closely fit the description of Digory Kirke, who in "The
> Magician's Nephew" (the sixth book to be written [1955] but the first
> in chronological order) is the Professor when he was a boy. Again,
> the apocalypse symbolized at the end of "The Lion, the Witch and the
> Wardrobe" is restyled in more, and different, detail in the last
> Narnia book,"The Last Battle" (1956); Susan is no longer admitted to
> the Kingdom of God.
>
> Ryken and Mead, in "A Reader's Guide Through the Wardrobe," explain
> the discrepancies. "Lewis did not anticipate the other six Narnian
> stories when he wrote his first volume. As a result, he created this
> story as a "stand-alone" narrative, and the development of this first
> tale was not written to take into account any subsequent books."
>
> This is why Aslan can morph into the lamppost (Revelation's Lamp in
> New Jerusalem) in "The Lion," whereas the lamppost and Aslan stand
> side by side in "The Magician's Nephew." Make no mistake, in
> Revelation 21: the "lamp is the Lamb." (Here the "lamp" is merely a
> metaphorical one, not a literal one.) And the Lamb is Jesus: "the
> Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb" will rule in the holy city that
> has floated down from heaven. Since Aslan symbolizes Jesus--just
> about everybody knows this--Aslan is both the Lamb (the white stag)
> and the lamppost.

On which page can I read about Aslan morphing into the lamppost? I don't recall the Pevensies seeing this happen.
 >> Stay informed about: The Magician's Nephew Spoilers 

On Mar 17, 4:35 pm, Tim Bruening <tsbru....TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> Otto York wrote:
> > On Mar 17, 2:30 am, Tim Bruening <tsbru....TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > > Otto York wrote:
> > > > This is a reply to the following December 30, 2005, post:
>
> > > > "Lots42" <lot....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > > At this point, there was so much magic, that anything planted would
> > > > > > grow and stay. That's why the lamp-post was there in Book 1, cuz in
> > > > > > this book, the Queen grabbed a bit from a lamp-post in England before
> > > > > > ending up in Narnia.
>
> > > > >No, that is a retcon.
>
> > > > >The lamppost was there in book 1, because Lewis figured it was a
> > > > >quaint and fairy taleish thing to have out there.
>
> > > > That's not why the lamppost was there at the end of book 1, The Lion,
> > > > the Witch and the Wardrobe. Lewis was symbolizing events from the
> > > > Bible's book of Revelation. Revelation is about the future apocalypse
> > > > (the horrifying destruction of earthly kingdoms and much of humanity)
> > > > and the transfer from heaven to earth of the Kingdom of God. The
> > > > apocalypse will begin with the appearance of the Four Horsemen of the
> > > > Apocalypse (Rev. 6:1-7). The four siblings who go out on horseback to
> > > > hunt for the white stag symbolize Revelation's Four Horsemen of the
> > > > Apocalypse.
>
> > > How? They have no intention of destroying anything, and Narnia wasn't
> > > destroyed for several hundred years after the siblings left?
>
> > > > The Lamb of God, implicitly white (lambs are white, you know), is
> > > > featured throughout Revelation. Aslan, who has returned and
> > > > transformed himself into the white stag, represents the Lamb of God.
>
> > > > At the end of Revelation, after the earthly kingdoms have been
> > > > destroyed and Satan has been thrown into a "lake of fire," the
> > > > survivors will witness "the holy city Jerusalem [New Jerusalem] coming
> > > > down out of heaven from God" (Rev. 21:10). God will cease to live in
> > > > heaven. He will come to earth and rule over man in his new Kingdom of
> > > > God on earth, which will replace the old multiple earthly kingdoms and
> > > > their human kings. "And the city [will have] no need of sun or moon
> > > > to shine upon it, for . . . it's lamp is the Lamb" (Rev.21:23).
>
> > > > The Lamppost in Narnia is the lamp in New Jerusalem. Since the "lamp
> > > > is the Lamb," we know that Aslan has now morphed from the white stag
> > > > (Lamb symbol) into the lamppost. When the siblings go past the
> > > > lamppost and enter the Professor's house, they are entering the
> > > > Kingdom of God. Who do you suppose the Professor (a.k.a. Emperor-
> > > > beyond-the-Sea), ruler of his house, represents?
>
> > > How can Aslan be the lamppost? In The Magician's Nephew, Jadis threw a > piece of lamppost at Aslan, and it sprouted into the lamppost, with Aslan standing right beside it.
>
> > There are many contradictions between the first Narnia book, "The
> > Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe"(1950), and the six later books. For
> > example, the Professor of the original book does not have a name and
> > does not closely fit the description of Digory Kirke, who in "The
> > Magician's Nephew" (the sixth book to be written [1955] but the first
> > in chronological order) is the Professor when he was a boy. Again,
> > the apocalypse symbolized at the end of "The Lion, the Witch and the
> > Wardrobe" is restyled in more, and different, detail in the last
> > Narnia book,"The Last Battle" (1956); Susan is no longer admitted to
> > the Kingdom of God.
>
> > Ryken and Mead, in "A Reader's Guide Through the Wardrobe," explain
> > the discrepancies. "Lewis did not anticipate the other six Narnian
> > stories when he wrote his first volume. As a result, he created this
> > story as a "stand-alone" narrative, and the development of this first
> > tale was not written to take into account any subsequent books."
>
> > This is why Aslan can morph into the lamppost (Revelation's Lamp in
> > New Jerusalem) in "The Lion," whereas the lamppost and Aslan stand
> > side by side in "The Magician's Nephew." Make no mistake, in
> > Revelation 21: the "lamp is the Lamb." (Here the "lamp" is merely a
> > metaphorical one, not a literal one.) And the Lamb is Jesus: "the
> > Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb" will rule in the holy city that
> > has floated down from heaven. Since Aslan symbolizes Jesus--just
> > about everybody knows this--Aslan is both the Lamb (the white stag)
> > and the lamppost.
>
> On which page can I read about Aslan morphing into the lamppost? I don't recall the Pevensies seeing this happen.

You don't see the morphing. You have to deduce it. You sound
intelligent. I am sure you are capable of deducing things from
evidence. The four siblings follow the white stag, who is Aslan
(another deduction). They lose sight of the stag. But they soon see
the lamppost. You have to deduce that the white stag (Aslan in
another guise) has morphed into the lamppost, just as he earlier
morphed into the white stag.

Deducing these things requires (1) awareness that Lewis is, throughout
the story, symbolizing a host of things relating to Christianity, not
just Aslan as the dying and rising Christ and the White Witch as
Satan, and (2) familiarity with the New Testament Book of Revelation,
which takes you from (a) the existence of earthly kingdoms,
represented by the siblings reigning as four kings and queens in
Narnia, to (b) the arrival of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse,
represented by the four siblings on horseback, to (c) the white Lamb
of God (one of Jesus's titles), represented by the white stag, to (d)
the lamp in New Jerusalem, which is a metaphorical lamp explicitly
identified as Jesus, who Aslana represents, to (e) the end of the
earthly kingdoms, an end that occurs when the siblings go back through
the wardrobe to the Professor's house, abandoning their roles as kings
and queens.

If you doubt that Aslan can morph into a lamb, read the Voyage of the
Dawn Treader. There Aslan appears as a lamb, then visibly morphs into
a lion.

By the way, on which page of the original Narnia book, The Lion, the
Witch and the Wardrobe, can I find the name Pevensie? (Do you see
what Ryken and Mead mean when they write that the original book was
written as a stand-alone book and did not take into account the fact
that later Narnia books would be written, books that gave the siblings
and the Professor names and other characteristics they didn't have in
the original story?)
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Otto York wrote:

> On Mar 17, 4:35 pm, Tim Bruening <tsbru....TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> > Otto York wrote:
> > > Ryken and Mead, in "A Reader's Guide Through the Wardrobe," explain
> > > the discrepancies. "Lewis did not anticipate the other six Narnian
> > > stories when he wrote his first volume. As a result, he created this
> > > story as a "stand-alone" narrative, and the development of this first
> > > tale was not written to take into account any subsequent books."
> >
> > > This is why Aslan can morph into the lamppost (Revelation's Lamp in
> > > New Jerusalem) in "The Lion," whereas the lamppost and Aslan stand
> > > side by side in "The Magician's Nephew." Make no mistake, in
> > > Revelation 21: the "lamp is the Lamb." (Here the "lamp" is merely a
> > > metaphorical one, not a literal one.) And the Lamb is Jesus: "the
> > > Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb" will rule in the holy city that
> > > has floated down from heaven. Since Aslan symbolizes Jesus--just
> > > about everybody knows this--Aslan is both the Lamb (the white stag)
> > > and the lamppost.
> >
> > On which page can I read about Aslan morphing into the lamppost? I don't recall the Pevensies seeing this happen.
>
> You don't see the morphing. You have to deduce it. You sound
> intelligent. I am sure you are capable of deducing things from
> evidence. The four siblings follow the white stag, who is Aslan
> (another deduction). They lose sight of the stag. But they soon see
> the lamppost. You have to deduce that the white stag (Aslan in
> another guise) has morphed into the lamppost, just as he earlier
> morphed into the white stag.

How could I deduce Aslan morphing into the lamppost when in "The Magician's Nephew", Aslan was next to the lamppost, which had grown from a piece of metal brought from Earth?

> Deducing these things requires (1) awareness that Lewis is, throughout
> the story, symbolizing a host of things relating to Christianity, not
> just Aslan as the dying and rising Christ and the White Witch as
> Satan, and (2) familiarity with the New Testament Book of Revelation,
> which takes you from (a) the existence of earthly kingdoms,
> represented by the siblings reigning as four kings and queens in
> Narnia, to (b) the arrival of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse,
> represented by the four siblings on horseback, to (c) the white Lamb
> of God (one of Jesus's titles), represented by the white stag, to (d)
> the lamp in New Jerusalem, which is a metaphorical lamp explicitly
> identified as Jesus, who Aslana represents, to (e) the end of the
> earthly kingdoms, an end that occurs when the siblings go back through
> the wardrobe to the Professor's house, abandoning their roles as kings
> and queens.

The 4 siblings do not strike me as the apocalyptic type, so don't seem to me to match 2b.
 >> Stay informed about: The Magician's Nephew Spoilers 

Tim Bruening <tsbrueni.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in
news:45FCB006.AE41A695@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us:

> How could I deduce Aslan morphing into the lamppost when in "The
> Magician's Nephew", Aslan was next to the lamppost, which had grown
> from a piece of metal brought from Earth?
>
>> Deducing these things requires (1) awareness that Lewis is,
>> throughout the story, symbolizing a host of things relating to
>> Christianity, not just Aslan as the dying and rising Christ and the
>> White Witch as Satan, and (2) familiarity with the New Testament Book
>> of Revelation, which takes you from (a) the existence of earthly
>> kingdoms, represented by the siblings reigning as four kings and
>> queens in Narnia, to (b) the arrival of the Four Horsemen of the
>> Apocalypse, represented by the four siblings on horseback, to (c) the
>> white Lamb of God (one of Jesus's titles), represented by the white
>> stag, to (d) the lamp in New Jerusalem, which is a metaphorical lamp
>> explicitly identified as Jesus, who Aslana represents, to (e) the end
>> of the earthly kingdoms, an end that occurs when the siblings go back
>> through the wardrobe to the Professor's house, abandoning their roles
>> as kings and queens.
>
> The 4 siblings do not strike me as the apocalyptic type, so don't seem
> to me to match 2b.

Certainly the change from kings & queens speaking medieval-sounding
English back into young XXth century public-schoolers seems rather *ex
nihilo*, and the above theory does go to explain something. (The first
literary parallel that even comes close is the conclusion of James
Branch Cabell's *Jurgen*, or one of his prior volumes, and that was much
more smoothly handled IIR.)

I had always assumed that Lewis' ultimate motivation for this change was
possible sequels, though, myself. I confess that much of this was due
to the assumption of modern habits of writing to a man when that man
deserved it very little indeed...

RA
 >> Stay informed about: The Magician's Nephew Spoilers 

In rec.arts.sf.written Otto York <gopher31 RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote:
[snip]
> You don't see the morphing. You have to deduce it. You sound
> intelligent. I am sure you are capable of deducing things from
> evidence. The four siblings follow the white stag, who is Aslan
> (another deduction). They lose sight of the stag. But they soon see
> the lamppost. You have to deduce that the white stag (Aslan in
> another guise) has morphed into the lamppost, just as he earlier
> morphed into the white stag.

Um...

The lamppost was there, in Narnia, at the start of the book. If Aslan
morphs into the lamppost, then he must have morphed /from/ the lamppost
(as there's only one that we know if in the book) at the start, which
makes the whole Aslan-is-away-but-is-coming-back bit kinda silly.

So either Lewis was consistent, and we can deduce that Aslan is not
the lamppost, or Lewis was inconsistent, and we then have no grounds
(in the story) for deducing that Aslan is a lamppost.

The simplest and most reasonable explanation is that Aslan led (or
caused the stag to lead) 'em to the lamppost. Anything beyond that
is stretching mighty hard.

[snip]
> If you doubt that Aslan can morph into a lamb, read the Voyage of the
> Dawn Treader. There Aslan appears as a lamb, then visibly morphs into
> a lion.

Citing other books would seem to be a bad precedent for your argument,
as we can then point to _The Magician's Nephew_ and say "aha! The lamp
was only an accident at the beginning of the world, and if it symbolizes
anything, it symbolizes the first effect of our symbolic satan upon the
world!"....

I do not believe that we've ever seen Aslan morph into an inanimate
object (discounting that of a dead lion).

[snip]
--
--Stewart Stremler--------------------------------stremler RemoveThis @rohan.sdsu.edu--
Or, to put it another way, if you see a long line of rats streaming
off of a ship, the correct assumption is *not* "gosh, I bet that's
a real nice boat now that those rats are gone". -- Mike Sphar
 >> Stay informed about: The Magician's Nephew Spoilers 

On Mar 18, 4:04 am, strem....RemoveThis@rohan.sdsu.edu wrote:
> In rec.arts.sf.written Otto York <gophe....RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > You don't see the morphing. You have to deduce it. You sound
> > intelligent. I am sure you are capable of deducing things from
> > evidence. The four siblings follow the white stag, who is Aslan
> > (another deduction). They lose sight of the stag. But they soon see
> > the lamppost. You have to deduce that the white stag (Aslan in
> > another guise) has morphed into the lamppost, just as he earlier
> > morphed into the white stag.
>
> Um...
>
> The lamppost was there, in Narnia, at the start of the book. If Aslan
> morphs into the lamppost, then he must have morphed /from/ the lamppost
> (as there's only one that we know if in the book) at the start, which
> makes the whole Aslan-is-away-but-is-coming-back bit kinda silly.
>
> So either Lewis was consistent, and we can deduce that Aslan is not
> the lamppost, or Lewis was inconsistent, and we then have no grounds
> (in the story) for deducing that Aslan is a lamppost.
>
> The simplest and most reasonable explanation is that Aslan led (or
> caused the stag to lead) 'em to the lamppost. Anything beyond that
> is stretching mighty hard.
>
> [snip]
>
> > If you doubt that Aslan can morph into a lamb, read the Voyage of the
> > Dawn Treader. There Aslan appears as a lamb, then visibly morphs into
> > a lion.
>
> Citing other books would seem to be a bad precedent for your argument,
> as we can then point to _The Magician's Nephew_ and say "aha! The lamp
> was only an accident at the beginning of the world, and if it symbolizes
> anything, it symbolizes the first effect of our symbolic satan upon the
> world!"....
>
> I do not believe that we've ever seen Aslan morph into an inanimate
> object (discounting that of a dead lion).

You "do not believe we've ever seen Aslan morph into an inanimate
object." Are you questioning Aslan's ability to morph into anything
he wants to? If so, you are assuming Aslan's magical powers are
inferior to those of the White Witch. In an earlier scene, before
Aslan's death and resurrection, Aslan and his army attack the White
Witch and her horde. The witch escapes by morphing into an inanimate
object, a "fair-sized boulder." At the same time, she transforms her
dwarf into a tree stump, another inanimate object. And still earlier
she uses her wand to transform all sorts of creatures who have
offended her into stone statues, additional inanimate objects. So
why can't Aslan, whose powers exceed those of the witch, transform
himself into an inanimate object, a lamppost?

You also say the lamppost was already in Narnia at the beginning of
the story. But at the beginning of the story Aslan has just returned
to Narnia. Like the Professor, he has a way of knowing unknowable
things. He knows, seemingly without having been told, that the four
children have just arrived in Narnia. Why, then, can't he have
anticipated their arrival (and Lucy's earlier visit) by positioning
himself as a lamppost at the entrance to Narnia at the story's
beginning? I see no reason why he couldn't have morphed into a
lamppost more than once.

Context is one of the keys to the doors of symbolism. The general
context is a story that is full of Christian symbolism. We therefore
look for symbols. The specific end-of-story context is symbolization
of Revelation's end-of-earthly-kingdoms apocalyptic events. The four
siblings, now adults, mounted on horseback as symbols of the Four
Horsemen of the Apocalypse is one of the most blatant symbols in
Lewis's story. That is your clue that other symbols relating to
Revelation and the apocalypse may also be present.

Revelation presents Jesus in three guises, two of them metaphorical.
Jesus is the metaphorical Lamb [a lamb is an animal child] of God, a
poetic way of saying Son of God. Later Jesus is the metaphorical lamp
in New Jerusalem. Aslan represents Jesus. We all know this.
Logically, then, he should also represent the white Lamb of God (the
white stag) and the light (lamppost) in New Jerusalem.

Just to flesh out the contextual sequence, Revelation forecasts the
end of earthly kingdoms and their replacement by the Kingdom of God on
earth (no longer in heaven). The four siblings have been kings and
queens of Narnia. When they depart, the era of kings and queens comes
to an end, just as it does in Revelation. The symbolism is there for
you to interpret. To me, at least, it is crystal clear.
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