The Magician's Nephew Spoilers

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 07:44:16 -0400, Glenn P., wrote:
/snip/

> Given that the Deplorable Word was (more or less) Lewis' metaphor for The
> Bomb

Do you have evidence for this?


Bree
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On Apr 20, 11:06 pm, John F. Eldredge <j....TakeThisOut@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Mar 2007 19:49:53 -0800, Tim Bruening
>
> <tsbru....TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> >strem...@rohan.sdsu.edu wrote:
>
> >> It is not something that is likely to be appearing and vanishing as
> >> Aslan comes and goes. Consequently, if we believe that the lamppost
> >> (or lamp-post) is to be Aslan, then we must further postulate that
> >> Aslan can be in two places at once -- in which case, there is no need
> >> for Aslan to _morph_ into the lamppost, as he's already there.
>
> >Why couldn't Aslan be in two places at once? After all, isn't Jesus everywhere?
>
> The Christian doctrine that I am familiar with says that, while Jesus
> was incarnate, he had the physical limitations of a human body, such
> as being in only one place at a time. After his ascension into
> heaven, and resumption of being a spiritual, rather than physical,
> being, he would have resumed being omnipresent.
>
> So, one would rationally assume that, while Aslan was incarnate, he
> could only be in one place at a time.
>
> --
> John F. Eldredge -- j....TakeThisOut@jfeldredge.com
> PGP key available fromhttp://pgp.mit.edu
> "Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
> than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria

You say that "after his ascension into heaven, . . . [Jesus] would
have resumed being omnipresent." But the heaven of Christian
mythology is a specific place, located in the sky, not here on earth.
How does one "rationally assume" that, having ascended to this one
specific place, Jesus was every place at once?

In the same vein, the Apostles' Creed says that, after arising from
the dead, Jesus "ascended unto heaven" where he "sitteth at the right
hand of God, the Father Almighty." How can Jesus be sittething on a
throne yet be every place at once?

In the gospels, Jesus promises to return on a cloud from heaven when
Judgment Day comes. How can he be riding in on a cloud, a specific
place, yet be every place at once?

It is God, not Jesus, who is supposed to be omnipresent. But even
here you have contradictions. "Our Father, who art in heaven . . ."
If God art in heaven, how can he also be in hell and standing beside
each of earth's billions of humans and attending to affairs in
Andromeda and on Polaris all at once? Or, where the humans are
concerned, are Darfur and Baghdad parts of heaven, where God "art"?

Christianity does get a bit confusing, does't it?
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In article <q9zoaoba127j$.h9e698nwffj1$.dlg@40tude.net>,
Bree <no.RemoveThis@onoe.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 07:44:16 -0400, Glenn P., wrote:
>/snip/
>
>> Given that the Deplorable Word was (more or less) Lewis' metaphor for The
>> Bomb
>
>Do you have evidence for this?

It has been years since I read the book, but doesn't Aslan make a
remark to Diggory and Polly about the scientists (he may have used
a different word) of their own world someday inventing something like
the deplorable word?

--
Please reply to: | "One of the hardest parts of my job is to
pciszek at panix dot com | connect Iraq to the War on Terror."
Autoreply is disabled | -- G. W. Bush, 9/7/2006
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Paul Ciszek <nospam RemoveThis @nospam.com> wrote:
>Bree <no RemoveThis @onoe.com> wrote:
>>On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 07:44:16 -0400, Glenn P., wrote:
>>/snip/
>>
>>> Given that the Deplorable Word was (more or less) Lewis' metaphor for The
>>> Bomb
>>
>>Do you have evidence for this?
>
>It has been years since I read the book, but doesn't Aslan make a
>remark to Diggory and Polly about the scientists (he may have used
>a different word) of their own world someday inventing something like
>the deplorable word?

Yes, it's in the last chapter. "It is not certain that some wicked one
of your race will not find out a secret as evil as the Deplorable Word
and use it to destroy all living things. And soon, very soon, before
you are an old man and an old woman, great nations in your world will
be ruled by tyrants who care no more for joy and justice and mercy than
the Empress Jadis. Let your world beware."

I don't know if I'd say it's a "metaphor for the Bomb" exactly, but
regardless of what Lewis was thinking when he wrote the Charn scenes,
in this passage he's certainly drawing the reader's attention to the
parallel between Jadis wielding the Deplorable Word, and us wielding
the Bomb.
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On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:43:13 +0000 (UTC), Katie Schwarz wrote:

> Paul Ciszek <nospam.TakeThisOut@nospam.com> wrote:
>>Bree <no.TakeThisOut@onoe.com> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 07:44:16 -0400, Glenn P., wrote:
>>>/snip/
>>>
>>>> Given that the Deplorable Word was (more or less) Lewis' metaphor for The
>>>> Bomb
>>>
>>>Do you have evidence for this?
>>
>>It has been years since I read the book, but doesn't Aslan make a
>>remark to Diggory and Polly about the scientists (he may have used
>>a different word) of their own world someday inventing something like
>>the deplorable word?
>
> Yes, it's in the last chapter. "It is not certain that some wicked one
> of your race will not find out a secret as evil as the Deplorable Word
> and use it to destroy all living things. And soon, very soon, before
> you are an old man and an old woman, great nations in your world will
> be ruled by tyrants who care no more for joy and justice and mercy than
> the Empress Jadis. Let your world beware."
>
> I don't know if I'd say it's a "metaphor for the Bomb" exactly, but
> regardless of what Lewis was thinking when he wrote the Charn scenes,
> in this passage he's certainly drawing the reader's attention to the
> parallel between Jadis wielding the Deplorable Word, and us wielding
> the Bomb.


I had forgotten that, and my books are packed away. Thank you.


Bree
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In Chapter 5 (The Deplorable Word), pages 41-42 of large paperback,
Jadis describes how she used a Deplorable Word (which kills everyone but
the user) to kill everyone on her planet but herself, as an absolute
last resort (as the rebels were about to wipe her out after having
killed her entire army). What would happen if two people used the
Deplorable Word at the same time?
 >> Stay informed about: The Magician's Nephew Spoilers 

The Magician's Nephew Spoilers:

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In this book, two kids named Digory and Polly use magic rings to travel
from Earth, to the Wood Between The Worlds, and then to Charn, where
Digory foolishly rings a bell that wakes up the evil witch Queen Jadis.

In Chapter 5 (The Deplorable Word), page 40 of large paperback, Jadis
turns some palace doors into dust. On pages 41-42, Jadis describes how
she used a Deplorable Word to kill everyone on her planet but herself,
as an absolute last resort. Jadis had refrained from using that Word
until rebels led by her sister had annihilated her army and marched up
the palace steps. Her rebel sister was right in her face before she
uttered the Word! Why didn't Jadis simply use her "dusting" spell to
turn her sister and the other rebels into dust? (or perhaps turn the
ground underneath the rebels into dust, or make buildings collapse on
the rebels).

PP 75-76: Digory's uncle Andrew didn't like the sound of the creation
song the lion Aslan was singing, so when he saw that the singer was a
lion, he made himself believe that it was just roaring. He therefore
made himself incapable of hearing the speech of Aslan or any other
Talking Animal as anything but animal noises. No Talking Animal could
understand Andrew either! However, if Aslan had gone out of Andrew's
sight, assumed the form of an English gentleman, then walked up to
Andrew, would Andrew have then been able to understand Aslan? After
all, Andrew would be expecting an English gentleman to speak English!

Page 96: Digory plants an apple from a magic tree. PP 99-100: The apple
has sprouted into a tree that Aslan explains will protect Narnia from
Jadis for centuries. Jadis can't get near the tree because its odor is
repellent to her (since she had eaten an apple from its parent after
having stolen it). Why doesn't Aslan direct the Narnians to (from time
to time) plant seeds from the Narnian tree to grow new trees that would
continue to protect Narnia when the old tree died, or direct the
Narnians to fetch a new apple from the parent tree to the West?
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David Johnston wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:13:50 -0800, Tim Bruening
> <tsbrueni.DeleteThis@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> >The Magician's Nephew Spoilers:
> >
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> >
> >In this book, two kids named Digory and Polly use magic rings to travel
> >from Earth, to the Wood Between The Worlds, and then to Charn, where
> >Digory foolishly rings a bell that wakes up the evil witch Queen Jadis.
> >
> >In Chapter 5 (The Deplorable Word), page 40 of large paperback, Jadis
> >turns some palace doors into dust. On pages 41-42, Jadis describes how
> >she used a Deplorable Word to kill everyone on her planet but herself,
> >as an absolute last resort. Jadis had refrained from using that Word
> >until rebels led by her sister had annihilated her army and marched up
> >the palace steps. Her rebel sister was right in her face before she
> >uttered the Word! Why didn't Jadis simply use her "dusting" spell to
> >turn her sister and the other rebels into dust?
>
> Did Jadis say that the Word in question could be used in a restricted
> manner?

I'm referring to Jadis' spell to turn things into dust, not her Deplorable
Word that killed everything but herself!

> (or perhaps turn the
> >ground underneath the rebels into dust, or make buildings collapse on
> >the rebels).
> >
> >PP 75-76: Digory's uncle Andrew didn't like the sound of the creation
> >song the lion Aslan was singing, so when he saw that the singer was a
> >lion, he made himself believe that it was just roaring. He therefore
> >made himself incapable of hearing the speech of Aslan or any other
> >Talking Animal as anything but animal noises. No Talking Animal could
> >understand Andrew either! However, if Aslan had gone out of Andrew's
> >sight, assumed the form of an English gentleman, then walked up to
> >Andrew, would Andrew have then been able to understand Aslan? After
> >all, Andrew would be expecting an English gentleman to speak English!
>
> English gentlemen didn't look all the different from French gentlemen

Okay, assume the form of a Red Coated British soldier!
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John Elliott wrote:

> Tim Bruening <tsbrueni.TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> : The Magician's Nephew Spoilers:
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> : In Chapter 5 (The Deplorable Word), page 40 of large paperback, Jadis
> : turns some palace doors into dust. On pages 41-42, Jadis describes how
> : she used a Deplorable Word to kill everyone on her planet but herself,
> : as an absolute last resort. Jadis had refrained from using that Word
> : until rebels led by her sister had annihilated her army and marched up
> : the palace steps. Her rebel sister was right in her face before she
> : uttered the Word! Why didn't Jadis simply use her "dusting" spell to
> : turn her sister and the other rebels into dust? (or perhaps turn the
> : ground underneath the rebels into dust, or make buildings collapse on
> : the rebels).
>
> It can be surmised that the rebels were no slouches at magic themselves,
> or they wouldn't have been able to get so close to Jadis. They must have
> been able to stop themselves from being turned into dust, probably with
> spells of protection. And from the fact that the Deplorable Word still
> worked on them, we can deduce that one of the things that made it so
> Deplorable is there is no defence against it.

But could they have laid spells of protection on the streets, buildings, or
ground?
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David Johnston wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:13:50 -0800, Tim Bruening
> <tsbrueni.TakeThisOut@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
>
> >The Magician's Nephew Spoilers:
> >
> >1
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> >
> >In this book, two kids named Digory and Polly use magic rings to travel
> >from Earth, to the Wood Between The Worlds, and then to Charn, where
> >Digory foolishly rings a bell that wakes up the evil witch Queen Jadis.
> >
> >In Chapter 5 (The Deplorable Word), page 40 of large paperback, Jadis
> >turns some palace doors into dust. On pages 41-42, Jadis describes how
> >she used a Deplorable Word to kill everyone on her planet but herself,
> >as an absolute last resort. Jadis had refrained from using that Word
> >until rebels led by her sister had annihilated her army and marched up
> >the palace steps. Her rebel sister was right in her face before she
> >uttered the Word! Why didn't Jadis simply use her "dusting" spell to
> >turn her sister and the other rebels into dust?
>
> Did Jadis say that the Word in question could be used in a restricted
> manner?

If Jadis could have used the Word in a restricted manner, I believe that
she
would have done so, so as to still have living people to serve her!
(She did
say that she used the Word only as a last resort, as the rebels closed
in on
her).
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