Medical technology

In article <dsample-E30790.14453711012007.RemoveThis@news.giganews.com>,
Don Sample <dsample.RemoveThis@synapse.net> wrote:
>In article <eo5lon$jfs$1@panix3.panix.com>,
> aahz.RemoveThis@pobox.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
>>
>> I'm re-reading _At All Costs_, and the following question occurred to me:
>> Anyone want to bet that the Manties are going to use the Mesan nanotech
>> to restore Emily's nervous system?
>
>The Mesan's nanotech seems to be entirely unsuited to such things.
>turning people into robots is a lot different from repairing damaged
>nerves. The Mesan's nano-assassins are software. Emily's problems are
>hardware.

What I was thinking was that there has to be two-way feedback at the
nano-level for the Mesan tech to work. That means it could probably be
used to bridge over the gaps in Emily's nervous system, assuming that the
nerves beyond her spinal cord aren't totally broken.

>And Manticore has its own nano-tech, anyway. The nano-bots they used to
>swap Berry's and Ruth's appearance in Crown of Slaves is closer to what
>you need to fix Emily (Also Honor's arm, eye, and other damage.)

Arm and eye, yes; not so sure about neural issues.

Come to think, I guess I'm surprised that even though regen doesn't work,
there hasn't been anything said about cloned body parts. Obviously
Honor's body must have *some* kind of self-repair capability or she
wouldn't have survived so much...

>I wouldn't be surprised if some of Honor's billions is going into
>medical research on just such problems. (Actually, I would be surprised
>if it *wasn't*. I won't be surprised if it succeeds.)

Ayup.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology 

>
> What I was thinking was that there has to be two-way feedback at the
> nano-level for the Mesan tech to work. That means it could probably be
> used to bridge over the gaps in Emily's nervous system, assuming that the
> nerves beyond her spinal cord aren't totally broken.
>

Wasn't Emily's unrepairable damage the physical loss of the brain tissue
that ran most of her body? The Mesan nanites worked in the brain and
wouldn't have the tissue to work with in her case.
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology 

Baydlor wrote:
>> What I was thinking was that there has to be two-way feedback at the
>> nano-level for the Mesan tech to work. That means it could probably be
>> used to bridge over the gaps in Emily's nervous system, assuming that the
>> nerves beyond her spinal cord aren't totally broken.
>>
>
> Wasn't Emily's unrepairable damage the physical loss of the brain tissue
> that ran most of her body? The Mesan nanites worked in the brain and
> wouldn't have the tissue to work with in her case.

I poked around a little to see if I could find something. It seems to me
there was one comment about how the motor control part of the brain was
totaled, yet:

EOH:
"The horsewoman and tennis player and grav skier from whose brain stem
an artificial shunt ran to her life-support chair's control systems and
who, below the neck, aside from that, now had seventy-five percent use
of one hand. Period. Total. All there was and all there ever would be
again, for as long as she lived."

That means the signals are getting to the brain stem.

Either I misremember the extent of the damage, or?
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology 

"Aahz Maruch" <aahz.TakeThisOut@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:eo5lon$jfs$1@panix3.panix.com...
> I'm re-reading _At All Costs_, and the following question occurred to me:
> Anyone want to bet that the Manties are going to use the Mesan nanotech
> to restore Emily's nervous system?

Beowulf is the master of biological high tech, not Manticore.

> --
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
> http://rule6.info/
> <*> <*> <*>
> Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology 

"Aahz Maruch" <aahz.DeleteThis@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:eo67fu$oqt$1@panix3.panix.com...
> In article <dsample-E30790.14453711012007.DeleteThis@news.giganews.com>,
> Don Sample <dsample.DeleteThis@synapse.net> wrote:
>>In article <eo5lon$jfs$1@panix3.panix.com>,
>> aahz.DeleteThis@pobox.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm re-reading _At All Costs_, and the following question occurred to
>>> me:
>>> Anyone want to bet that the Manties are going to use the Mesan nanotech
>>> to restore Emily's nervous system?
>>
>>The Mesan's nanotech seems to be entirely unsuited to such things.
>>turning people into robots is a lot different from repairing damaged
>>nerves. The Mesan's nano-assassins are software. Emily's problems are
>>hardware.
>
> What I was thinking was that there has to be two-way feedback at the
> nano-level for the Mesan tech to work. That means it could probably be
> used to bridge over the gaps in Emily's nervous system, assuming that the
> nerves beyond her spinal cord aren't totally broken.

Connections are totally broken.

>
>>And Manticore has its own nano-tech, anyway. The nano-bots they used to
>>swap Berry's and Ruth's appearance in Crown of Slaves is closer to what
>>you need to fix Emily (Also Honor's arm, eye, and other damage.)
>
> Arm and eye, yes; not so sure about neural issues.
>
> Come to think, I guess I'm surprised that even though regen doesn't work,
> there hasn't been anything said about cloned body parts. Obviously
> Honor's body must have *some* kind of self-repair capability or she
> wouldn't have survived so much...

No vital organ systems were taken out. Hardware was used to prevent
disability. Not to save her life.

>
>>I wouldn't be surprised if some of Honor's billions is going into
>>medical research on just such problems. (Actually, I would be surprised
>>if it *wasn't*. I won't be surprised if it succeeds.)
>
> Ayup.
> --
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
> http://rule6.info/
> <*> <*> <*>
> Androgynous poly kinky vanilla queer het Pythonista
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology 

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but aahz.RemoveThis@pobox.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote
on 11 Jan 2007 12:42:38 -0800 in alt.books.david-weber :
>In article <dsample-E30790.14453711012007.RemoveThis@news.giganews.com>,
>Don Sample <dsample.RemoveThis@synapse.net> wrote:
>>In article <eo5lon$jfs$1@panix3.panix.com>,
>> aahz.RemoveThis@pobox.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm re-reading _At All Costs_, and the following question occurred to me:
>>> Anyone want to bet that the Manties are going to use the Mesan nanotech
>>> to restore Emily's nervous system?
>>
>>The Mesan's nanotech seems to be entirely unsuited to such things.
>>turning people into robots is a lot different from repairing damaged
>>nerves. The Mesan's nano-assassins are software. Emily's problems are
>>hardware.
>
>What I was thinking was that there has to be two-way feedback at the
>nano-level for the Mesan tech to work. That means it could probably be
>used to bridge over the gaps in Emily's nervous system, assuming that the
>nerves beyond her spinal cord aren't totally broken.
>
>>And Manticore has its own nano-tech, anyway. The nano-bots they used to
>>swap Berry's and Ruth's appearance in Crown of Slaves is closer to what
>>you need to fix Emily (Also Honor's arm, eye, and other damage.)
>
>Arm and eye, yes; not so sure about neural issues.
>
>Come to think, I guess I'm surprised that even though regen doesn't work,
>there hasn't been anything said about cloned body parts. Obviously
>Honor's body must have *some* kind of self-repair capability or she
>wouldn't have survived so much...
>
>>I wouldn't be surprised if some of Honor's billions is going into
>>medical research on just such problems. (Actually, I would be surprised
>>if it *wasn't*. I won't be surprised if it succeeds.)

I suspect this is a case where He Who Writes was busy exploring the
ramifications of one set of technologies, and missed another. If I can
regrow teeth, and we have artificial nerves, why not use nano-tech to lay
molycircuits down inside someone to by pass nerve damage. Or just assemble
the nerve tissue to make the connections destroyed by trauma or disease?
Why not a nano pack which will rebuild broken bones? If you can
organize where calcium is to be laid down for a bone break (btw,
osteoporosis is a thing of the pass), what's to keep you from laying it
down where it wasn't (such as for Keil-something syndrome, where vertebrae
aren't fully formed. A real pain.), to laying it down where it was, but
isn't. Such replacing bone lost from a "traumatic amputation" such as what
happened to her Ladyship.
OTOH, "I don't regen" could be a result of genetic manipulation having
leaving her with copyrighted bits which the nanites refuse to copy. "Damn
the Lawyers!"


pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"Given our monstrous, overgrown government structure, any three letters
chosen at random would probably designate an agency or part of a
department that could be profitably abolished." Milton Freidman
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology 

"pyotr filipivich" <phamp RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:nogdq2hp30qil7aairebhqf22j8qblltsv@4ax.com...
> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but aahz RemoveThis @pobox.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote
> on 11 Jan 2007 12:42:38 -0800 in alt.books.david-weber :
>>In article <dsample-E30790.14453711012007 RemoveThis @news.giganews.com>,
>>Don Sample <dsample RemoveThis @synapse.net> wrote:
>>>In article <eo5lon$jfs$1@panix3.panix.com>,
>>> aahz RemoveThis @pobox.com (Aahz Maruch) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm re-reading _At All Costs_, and the following question occurred to
>>>> me:
>>>> Anyone want to bet that the Manties are going to use the Mesan nanotech
>>>> to restore Emily's nervous system?
>>>
>>>The Mesan's nanotech seems to be entirely unsuited to such things.
>>>turning people into robots is a lot different from repairing damaged
>>>nerves. The Mesan's nano-assassins are software. Emily's problems are
>>>hardware.
>>
>>What I was thinking was that there has to be two-way feedback at the
>>nano-level for the Mesan tech to work. That means it could probably be
>>used to bridge over the gaps in Emily's nervous system, assuming that the
>>nerves beyond her spinal cord aren't totally broken.
>>
>>>And Manticore has its own nano-tech, anyway. The nano-bots they used to
>>>swap Berry's and Ruth's appearance in Crown of Slaves is closer to what
>>>you need to fix Emily (Also Honor's arm, eye, and other damage.)
>>
>>Arm and eye, yes; not so sure about neural issues.
>>
>>Come to think, I guess I'm surprised that even though regen doesn't work,
>>there hasn't been anything said about cloned body parts. Obviously
>>Honor's body must have *some* kind of self-repair capability or she
>>wouldn't have survived so much...
>>
>>>I wouldn't be surprised if some of Honor's billions is going into
>>>medical research on just such problems. (Actually, I would be surprised
>>>if it *wasn't*. I won't be surprised if it succeeds.)
>
> I suspect this is a case where He Who Writes was busy exploring the
> ramifications of one set of technologies, and missed another. If I can
> regrow teeth, and we have artificial nerves, why not use nano-tech to lay
> molycircuits down inside someone to by pass nerve damage. Or just
> assemble
> the nerve tissue to make the connections destroyed by trauma or disease?
> Why not a nano pack which will rebuild broken bones? If you can
> organize where calcium is to be laid down for a bone break (btw,
> osteoporosis is a thing of the pass), what's to keep you from laying it
> down where it wasn't (such as for Keil-something syndrome, where vertebrae
> aren't fully formed. A real pain.), to laying it down where it was, but
> isn't. Such replacing bone lost from a "traumatic amputation" such as
> what
> happened to her Ladyship.
> OTOH, "I don't regen" could be a result of genetic manipulation having
> leaving her with copyrighted bits which the nanites refuse to copy. "Damn
> the Lawyers!"
>

You are basicly right about broken bones. DW has already had bones reshaped
by nanites. They could join the breaks.

I consider this medical case to be no more than a story plot feature that is
out of line with the rules of the place as described. Having to do surgery
in order to put in an "artifical nerve" when you have nanites is no more
than a story plot feature.

Being true to the place would have seriously messed up several good books so
I overlooked it.




>
> pyotr
> --
> pyotr filipivich
> "Given our monstrous, overgrown government structure, any three letters
> chosen at random would probably designate an agency or part of a
> department that could be profitably abolished." Milton Freidman
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology 

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Offbreed <offbreed_106 RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
wrote on Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:39:25 -0800 in alt.books.david-weber :
>Baydlor wrote:
>>> What I was thinking was that there has to be two-way feedback at the
>>> nano-level for the Mesan tech to work. That means it could probably be
>>> used to bridge over the gaps in Emily's nervous system, assuming that the
>>> nerves beyond her spinal cord aren't totally broken.
>>>
>>
>> Wasn't Emily's unrepairable damage the physical loss of the brain tissue
>> that ran most of her body? The Mesan nanites worked in the brain and
>> wouldn't have the tissue to work with in her case.
>
>I poked around a little to see if I could find something. It seems to me
>there was one comment about how the motor control part of the brain was
>totaled, yet:
>
>EOH:
>"The horsewoman and tennis player and grav skier from whose brain stem
>an artificial shunt ran to her life-support chair's control systems and
>who, below the neck, aside from that, now had seventy-five percent use
>of one hand. Period. Total. All there was and all there ever would be
>again, for as long as she lived."
>
>That means the signals are getting to the brain stem.
>
>Either I misremember the extent of the damage, or?

But from the brain stem south, what used to be a massive information
superhighway is now a rutted one lane track, wandering through the hills to
the hand. More than a bummer. But here, Manticore med tech has kept her
alive, from injuries that we probably wouldn't even have been able to
treat.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
Nothing says loving like a bun in the oven.
EOF
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology 

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "deowll" <deowll DeleteThis @bellsouth.net>
wrote on Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:42:46 -0600 in alt.books.david-weber :
>
>You are basicly right about broken bones. DW has already had bones reshaped
>by nanites. They could join the breaks.
>
>I consider this medical case to be no more than a story plot feature that is
>out of line with the rules of the place as described. Having to do surgery
>in order to put in an "artifical nerve" when you have nanites is no more
>than a story plot feature.

OTOH, it could still be called "surgery" even if there are no knives,
or sharp metal blades at all. Heck, the "room" is still called a surgery
out of force of habit (these is Manticore, England in all but name.), and
blah blah.

>Being true to the place would have seriously messed up several good books so
>I overlooked it.

There is also an element of translating 41st Century terms, paradigms
and expressions into the 20th century idiom. For all we know, there could
have been a Great Vowel Shift or two in the next five hundred years, and
"English" no longer sounds like what we'd expect. Who knows, they might
even have regularized the spelling.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology 

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "deowll" <deowll.DeleteThis@bellsouth.net>
wrote on Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:13:21 -0600 in alt.books.david-weber :
>
>>>And Manticore has its own nano-tech, anyway. The nano-bots they used to
>>>swap Berry's and Ruth's appearance in Crown of Slaves is closer to what
>>>you need to fix Emily (Also Honor's arm, eye, and other damage.)
>>
>> Arm and eye, yes; not so sure about neural issues.
>>
>> Come to think, I guess I'm surprised that even though regen doesn't work,
>> there hasn't been anything said about cloned body parts. Obviously
>> Honor's body must have *some* kind of self-repair capability or she
>> wouldn't have survived so much...
>
>No vital organ systems were taken out. Hardware was used to prevent
>disability. Not to save her life.

Did she break any bones as a kid? The bruises and such from learning
the Coup. Etc, etc, she's healed/"self-repaired" before, she'll heal
again.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
If the world was flat -
Some people would object to people bungie jumping over the Edge.
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology 

Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "deowll" <deowll.RemoveThis@bellsouth.net>
wrote on Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:10:35 -0600 in alt.books.david-weber :
>
>"Aahz Maruch" <aahz.RemoveThis@pobox.com> wrote in message
>news:eo5lon$jfs$1@panix3.panix.com...
>> I'm re-reading _At All Costs_, and the following question occurred to me:
>> Anyone want to bet that the Manties are going to use the Mesan nanotech
>> to restore Emily's nervous system?
>
>Beowulf is the master of biological high tech, not Manticore.

High tech/low tech are relative terms. Beowulf may be the masters of
High Tech Bio, but that still leaves Manticore lots of room to maneuver.
They have something which works, but if the Beowulfians ever see it,
they'll laugh their heads off. After all, compared to Earth in the here and
now, the Sillies are "masters of biological high tech."

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
New Years Eve: when the beautiful promise of tomorrow is transformed
into the ugly reality of today, and the disgusting miasma of now becomes
the rosy nostalgic netherworlds of yesterday.
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology 

On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:39:25 -0800, Offbreed
<offbreed_106 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>Baydlor wrote:
>>> What I was thinking was that there has to be two-way feedback at the
>>> nano-level for the Mesan tech to work. That means it could probably be
>>> used to bridge over the gaps in Emily's nervous system, assuming that the
>>> nerves beyond her spinal cord aren't totally broken.
>>>
>>
>> Wasn't Emily's unrepairable damage the physical loss of the brain tissue
>> that ran most of her body? The Mesan nanites worked in the brain and
>> wouldn't have the tissue to work with in her case.
>
>I poked around a little to see if I could find something. It seems to me
>there was one comment about how the motor control part of the brain was
>totaled, yet:
>
>EOH:
>"The horsewoman and tennis player and grav skier from whose brain stem
>an artificial shunt ran to her life-support chair's control systems and
>who, below the neck, aside from that, now had seventy-five percent use
>of one hand. Period. Total. All there was and all there ever would be
>again, for as long as she lived."
>
>That means the signals are getting to the brain stem.
>
>Either I misremember the extent of the damage, or?


all that really says is that she is getting partial nerve transmission
from one hand with nothing else remaining in working order. it
doesn't really tell you just what got screwed up. i'd guess against
severe brain damage though as she seems pretty high functional in that
dept.
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology 

"Offbreed" <offbreed_106.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:sqadnbuLx5M0jTrYnZ2dnUVZ_tadnZ2d@scnresearch.com...
> Baydlor wrote:
>>> What I was thinking was that there has to be two-way feedback at the
>>> nano-level for the Mesan tech to work. That means it could probably be
>>> used to bridge over the gaps in Emily's nervous system, assuming that
>>> the
>>> nerves beyond her spinal cord aren't totally broken.
>>>
>>
>> Wasn't Emily's unrepairable damage the physical loss of the brain tissue
>> that ran most of her body? The Mesan nanites worked in the brain and
>> wouldn't have the tissue to work with in her case.
>
> I poked around a little to see if I could find something. It seems to me
> there was one comment about how the motor control part of the brain was
> totaled, yet:
>
> EOH:
> "The horsewoman and tennis player and grav skier from whose brain stem an
> artificial shunt ran to her life-support chair's control systems and who,
> below the neck, aside from that, now had seventy-five percent use of one
> hand. Period. Total. All there was and all there ever would be again, for
> as long as she lived."
>
> That means the signals are getting to the brain stem.
>
> Either I misremember the extent of the damage, or?

Somebody goofed. The bottom line is the nanites according to the data
presented could pick up data from nerves in one location and transfer them
to another. This ability is implicit in some other things he said. It is
written. He can't change it. Worth noting but no huge deal.
 >> Stay informed about: Medical technology