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Since: Sep 17, 2006 Posts: 8
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(Msg. 61) Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Medical technology [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: alt>books>david-weber (more info?)
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Quadibloc wrote:
> deowll wrote:
>
>>"Kiwaiti" <spam.TakeThisOut@kiwaiti.de> wrote in message news:eor4b1$321$1@online.de...
>>
>>>pyotr filipivich schrieb:
>
>
>>>>There is also an element of translating 41st Century terms, paradigms
>>>>and expressions into the 20th century idiom. For all we know, there
>>>>could
>>>>have been a Great Vowel Shift or two in the next five hundred years, and
>>>>"English" no longer sounds like what we'd expect. Who knows, they might
>>>>even have regularized the spelling.
>>
>>>Now you're pushing it - that's no more than 2 millennia you're talking
>>>about - who's gonna regularize english spelling in that short a time? ;o)
>>
>>Any government that wanted to. It isn't any harder than changing to metric
>>and every nation on earth execpt the U.S. has done it.
>
>
> Why *hasn't* English spelling been regularized a long time ago?
>
> Noah Webster managed to remove a few of the worst excesses of English
> spelling from American spelling - and he was just a private
> individual.
>
> But metrication required a degree of coercive action from government,
> and it was somewhat unpopular. In Australia and Britain, at least, it
> could be argued that trade - with Europe for Britain, with Pacific Rim
> nations for Australia - made metrication imperative.
>
> For *Canada*, metrication was more controversial, since it was seen to
> be linked with a political agenda aimed at causing Canada to look less
> towards the United States and more towards Europe. Our trade is
> overwhelmingly with the U.S., so why do we need to go metric? We could
> have waited until the *U.S.* went metric to follow along (with less
> kicking and screaming).
>
> The government might have an excuse to push people around on English
> spelling if the difficulty of spelling English was leading to vast
> numbers of illiterates. Unfortunately (well, for this particular
> project), all the English-speaking countries of the world are just
> about as wealthy as Japan. And if Japan hasn't seriously considered
> dumping the use of Chinese characters, what chance do we have?
>
> What good is a baroque spelling system?
>
> Well, words would be slightly longer when spelled phonetically on
> average.
>
> They would look less "dignified".
>
> *And* it would be harder to spot phonies claiming to have had more
> formal education than they actually did through their bad spelling.
> That's probably the main reason China and Japan haven't given up their
> much *more* painful writing systems *as well*. (And if you keep the
> intelligent people busy grinding away getting an education, they have
> less time to plot revolutions!)
>
> Now that we're giving up teaching spelling, punctuation, and grammar
> in the schools, though, maybe the time for simplified spelling for
> English has at last come!
>
> John Savard
>
And if you're going to spell phonetically, whose pronunciation do you
use? You write tuhmayto and I write toomahto.
Phil the Badger
--
Never do for yourself what you can con an expert into doing for you.
Naismith: "On War" >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Aug 26, 2003 Posts: 389
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(Msg. 62) Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:46 pm
Post subject: regluarizing English spelling, was Medical technology [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but "Quadibloc" <jsavard RemoveThis @ecn.ab.ca>
wrote on 30 Jan 2007 18:44:06 -0800 in alt.books.david-weber :
>deowll wrote:
>> "Kiwaiti" <spam RemoveThis @kiwaiti.de> wrote in message news:eor4b1$321$1@online.de...
>> > pyotr filipivich schrieb:
>
>> >> There is also an element of translating 41st Century terms, paradigms
>> >> and expressions into the 20th century idiom. For all we know, there
>> >> could
>> >> have been a Great Vowel Shift or two in the next five hundred years, and
>> >> "English" no longer sounds like what we'd expect. Who knows, they might
>> >> even have regularized the spelling.
>>
>> > Now you're pushing it - that's no more than 2 millennia you're talking
>> > about - who's gonna regularize english spelling in that short a time? ;o)
>>
>> Any government that wanted to. It isn't any harder than changing to metric
>> and every nation on earth execpt the U.S. has done it.
>
>Why *hasn't* English spelling been regularized a long time ago?
It was, when Webster brought out his Dictionary of the American
Language. And there was an attempt to do so, in if I recall, the 13th
century, before the great vowel shift.
Unfortunately, there hasn't been an "English Academy" similar to the
French Academy (and other various other countries/languages) to serve as a
"language police" and define The Way it Is Done.
>
>Noah Webster managed to remove a few of the worst excesses of English
>spelling from American spelling - and he was just a private
>individual.
He wrote and sold a very popular book _the Dictionary. Not much plot
though.
>
>But metrication required a degree of coercive action from government,
>and it was somewhat unpopular. In Australia and Britain, at least, it
>could be argued that trade - with Europe for Britain, with Pacific Rim
>nations for Australia - made metrication imperative.
>
[snip]
>
>Now that we're giving up teaching spelling, punctuation, and grammar
>in the schools, though, maybe the time for simplified spelling for
>English has at last come!
Simplified speling for English has alredy cum. If peeple dont noe the
rite speling, then they nacherallee simplifi the speling.
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Monotheism, someone has said, offers two simple axioms:
1) There is a God.
2) It's not you. >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Jul 01, 2004 Posts: 282
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(Msg. 63) Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:46 pm
Post subject: Re: regluarizing English spelling, was Medical technology [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <cj52s2t2apierq4ep0v9lvsnbe74spi5km.RemoveThis@4ax.com>,
pyotr filipivich <phamp.RemoveThis@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Unfortunately, there hasn't been an "English Academy" similar to the
> French Academy (and other various other countries/languages) to serve as a
> "language police" and define The Way it Is Done.
This is a good thing. The only languages that need such things are the
ones that are struggling for survival.
And the irregularities of English spelling are a good thing. They give
additional clues to the meanings of words on the written page, which are
stripped of the clues of tone and infection of spoken language.
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/> >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 583
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(Msg. 64) Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:11 am
Post subject: Re: Medical technology [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Phil the Badger wrote:
>
> And if you're going to spell phonetically, whose pronunciation do you
> use? You write tuhmayto and I write toomahto.
>
> Phil the Badger
Huh, you both talk funny. I say toemaytoh.
--
--Jeffrey MacHott
"Sola bona lingua est mortua lingua" >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 583
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(Msg. 65) Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:13 am
Post subject: Re: regluarizing English spelling, was Medical technology [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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pyotr filipivich wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, there hasn't been an "English Academy" similar to the
> French Academy
And thank goodness for that! The French Academy just strikes me as a
prime example of French arrogance, and such enforced stagnation may very
well lead to the language becoming obsolete as the times change (wheras
English bends, mutates, and downright steals from other languages in
order to keep abreast of things that need to be described).
--
--Jeffrey MacHott
"Sola bona lingua est mortua lingua" >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Aug 26, 2003 Posts: 389
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(Msg. 66) Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Medical technology [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Jeffrey MacHott
<Raguleader RemoveThis @netzero.net> wrote on Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:11:13 GMT in
alt.books.david-weber :
>Phil the Badger wrote:
>
>>
>> And if you're going to spell phonetically, whose pronunciation do you
>> use? You write tuhmayto and I write toomahto.
>>
>> Phil the Badger
>
>Huh, you both talk funny. I say toemaytoh.
Too many notes, err syllables. "tomats"
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words;
on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to
beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.
--James D. Nicoll >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 583
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(Msg. 67) Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Medical technology [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Jeffrey MacHott
> <Raguleader.RemoveThis@netzero.net> wrote on Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:11:13 GMT in
> alt.books.david-weber :
>> Phil the Badger wrote:
>>
>>> And if you're going to spell phonetically, whose pronunciation do you
>>> use? You write tuhmayto and I write toomahto.
>>>
>>> Phil the Badger
>> Huh, you both talk funny. I say toemaytoh.
>
> Too many notes, err syllables. "tomats"
>
> pyotr
I'm waiting for someone to come along saying "Hell, I just pronounce it
"Catsup!"
--
--Jeffrey MacHott
"Sola bona lingua est mortua lingua" >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Apr 13, 2005 Posts: 438
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(Msg. 68) Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Medical technology [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Jeffrey MacHott wrote:
> pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Jeffrey MacHott
>> <Raguleader RemoveThis @netzero.net> wrote on Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:11:13 GMT in
>> alt.books.david-weber :
>>> Phil the Badger wrote:
>>>
>>>> And if you're going to spell phonetically, whose pronunciation do
>>>> you use? You write tuhmayto and I write toomahto.
>>>>
>>>> Phil the Badger
>>> Huh, you both talk funny. I say toemaytoh.
>>
>> Too many notes, err syllables. "tomats"
>>
>> pyotr
>
> I'm waiting for someone to come along saying "Hell, I just pronounce it
> "Catsup!"
Naw. "Mayters". >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Jan 30, 2007 Posts: 4
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(Msg. 69) Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:36 am
Post subject: Re: regluarizing English spelling, was Medical technology [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Don Sample wrote:
> And the irregularities of English spelling are a good thing. They give
> additional clues to the meanings of words on the written page, which are
> stripped of the clues of tone and infection of spoken language.
Speaking of additional clues, I've proposed that for Chinese to
abandon characters, it could keep the radicals, so that character
texts written in classical style could be transcribed instead of being
translated into one of the spoken dialects.
John Savard >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Aug 25, 2004 Posts: 583
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(Msg. 70) Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Medical technology [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Offbreed wrote:
> Jeffrey MacHott wrote:
>> pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Jeffrey MacHott
>>> <Raguleader.DeleteThis@netzero.net> wrote on Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:11:13 GMT in
>>> alt.books.david-weber :
>>>> Phil the Badger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And if you're going to spell phonetically, whose pronunciation do
>>>>> you use? You write tuhmayto and I write toomahto.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil the Badger
>>>> Huh, you both talk funny. I say toemaytoh.
>>>
>>> Too many notes, err syllables. "tomats"
>>>
>>> pyotr
>>
>> I'm waiting for someone to come along saying "Hell, I just pronounce
>> it "Catsup!"
>
> Naw. "Mayters".
"Thems squishy red apple lookin things that ya put on dem der burgers."
--
--Jeffrey MacHott
"Sola bona lingua est mortua lingua" >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Aug 26, 2003 Posts: 389
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(Msg. 71) Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Medical technology [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Jeffrey MacHott
<Raguleader RemoveThis @netzero.net> wrote on Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:03:38 GMT in
alt.books.david-weber :
>pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> Okay, so I'm late and catching up, but Jeffrey MacHott
>> <Raguleader RemoveThis @netzero.net> wrote on Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:11:13 GMT in
>> alt.books.david-weber :
>>> Phil the Badger wrote:
>>>
>>>> And if you're going to spell phonetically, whose pronunciation do you
>>>> use? You write tuhmayto and I write toomahto.
>>>>
>>>> Phil the Badger
>>> Huh, you both talk funny. I say toemaytoh.
>>
>> Too many notes, err syllables. "tomats"
>>
>> pyotr
>
>I'm waiting for someone to come along saying "Hell, I just pronounce it
>"Catsup!"
(Gor, 'ere be 'eafens.) "Ketchup!"
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words;
on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to
beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.
--James D. Nicoll >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Aug 26, 2003 Posts: 389
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(Msg. 72) Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:56 am
Post subject: regularizing English spelling [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Don Sample
<dsample.DeleteThis@synapse.net> wrote on Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:52:40 -0500 in
alt.books.david-weber :
>In article <cj52s2t2apierq4ep0v9lvsnbe74spi5km.DeleteThis@4ax.com>,
> pyotr filipivich <phamp.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, there hasn't been an "English Academy" similar to the
>> French Academy (and other various other countries/languages) to serve as a
>> "language police" and define The Way it Is Done.
>
>This is a good thing. The only languages that need such things are the
>ones that are struggling for survival.
I've been told that what the French Academy (etc) is doing is
giving an Official Definition of various words. That in contracts and
official documents, you are not to use a 'foreign word" but the
"proper word". E.g. you can't use "le email", but must use
"electronic mail".
While it gets a bit officious, it apparently does resolve contract
disputes by pre-defining the basic terms.
>
>And the irregularities of English spelling are a good thing. They give
>additional clues to the meanings of words on the written page, which are
>stripped of the clues of tone and infection of spoken language.
True. But "paradigm" - is that "para-di[jg]'m"? "Pa-rad-ig'm"?
What chu mean "para-dime"?
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
Just when you think you see the light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a 900lb gorilla with a flashlight!! >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Feb 11, 2008 Posts: 3
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(Msg. 73) Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:55 am
Post subject: Re: regularizing English spelling [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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All well and good, until we start making up words like, 'regularizing.'
"pyotr filipivich" <phamp RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8l2b145h6gr839uod4ghpnoiorbhreodmn@4ax.com...
>I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Don Sample
> <dsample RemoveThis @synapse.net> wrote on Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:52:40 -0500 in
> alt.books.david-weber :
>>In article <cj52s2t2apierq4ep0v9lvsnbe74spi5km RemoveThis @4ax.com>,
>> pyotr filipivich <phamp RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Unfortunately, there hasn't been an "English Academy" similar to the
>>> French Academy (and other various other countries/languages) to serve as
>>> a
>>> "language police" and define The Way it Is Done.
>>
>>This is a good thing. The only languages that need such things are the
>>ones that are struggling for survival.
>
> I've been told that what the French Academy (etc) is doing is
> giving an Official Definition of various words. That in contracts and
> official documents, you are not to use a 'foreign word" but the
> "proper word". E.g. you can't use "le email", but must use
> "electronic mail".
> While it gets a bit officious, it apparently does resolve contract
> disputes by pre-defining the basic terms.
>>
>>And the irregularities of English spelling are a good thing. They give
>>additional clues to the meanings of words on the written page, which are
>>stripped of the clues of tone and infection of spoken language.
>
> True. But "paradigm" - is that "para-di[jg]'m"? "Pa-rad-ig'm"?
> What chu mean "para-dime"?
>
>
> tschus
> pyotr
> --
> pyotr filipivich
> Just when you think you see the light at the end of the tunnel,
> you find out it's a 900lb gorilla with a flashlight!! >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Apr 19, 2007 Posts: 30
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(Msg. 74) Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:35 pm
Post subject: Re: regularizing English spelling [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Apr 28, 3:56 am, pyotr filipivich <ph....DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote:
> E.g. you can't use "le email", but must use
> "electronic mail".
One advantage to using "poste electronique" instead of "le email" in
French - if that's what the alternatives are - is that, in French,
"email" is the word for *enamel*.
But with a little creativity, perhaps "le poste-E" would be accepted
as French enough - if a language is not allowed to have internal
dynamism of its own, of course it stands to be overwhelmed.
John Savard >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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Since: Apr 19, 2007 Posts: 30
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(Msg. 75) Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:42 pm
Post subject: Re: regularizing English spelling [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On May 1, 7:16 pm, Brian McDonald <Brian_knowspam.McDon....DeleteThis@shaw.ca>
wrote:
> i'd guess english is pretty much going to be unstoppable as the world
> language to be.
That might be, but in a world that is more advanced and prosperous,
people might not feel compelled to become immigrants to other
countries that are richer, or be dependent on books or movies produced
in other countries for quality entertainment.
Computers might even do the work of translating from foreign
languages, the way pocket calculators do arithmetic for us.
John Savard >> Stay informed about: Medical technology |
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